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Which Pod BSc to accept ?

Discussion in 'Teaching and Learning' started by maxants33, Jan 22, 2011.

  1. maxants33

    maxants33 Active Member


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    Hello Pod A
    I hope nobody minds me asking this on Pod A - but I have a choice problem.

    I have been offered unconditionals to study my Pod BSc at both Durham and Salford - I understand these are both great schools, but which is the better of the 2 ?


    Durham looks very nice - only a small department with lots of support and a cosy small class.
    Salford seems ultra modern and cutting edge (I've heard its one of the best right ?) - yet much busyer and slightly (only a bit) more anonymous feeling .


    Can anyone offer any advice on this ? - my brain is getting a bit fried by it all:dizzy:
     
  2. Ultimately it's up to you. But you could request the latest QAA (Quality Assurance Agency) reports fro the 2 schools, I did a quick websearch and found a QAA report for Durham, but it was from 1999, there must be a more update one than this?

    Also look at the staff CV's, how many are currently publishing peer reviewed articles etc.

    But ultimately, you have to decide.
     
  3. bob

    bob Active Member

    Hello Simon,

    In the QAA document it states:
    "The intended learning outcomes provide an appropriate balance of knowledge and skills to prepare graduates for podiatric practice in a variety of contexts."
    Who assesses the schools? How do they know how well the courses prepare the students for podiatric practice? I must declare that I am unfamiliar with much of the educational language in the documents and the practice of delivering a degree course.

    To the original poster - have you been to an open day at each of the schools? Have you investigated the area where you will probably be living for the next 3 years? It depends what you want out of your degree and time at university. Study at degree level will no doubt be guided by your tutors and the course, but it heavily relies on your motivation and self-learning. If you have a specific interest, it is down to you to ask your tutors, research it and sometimes arrange time with practitioners who can further advise you in your own time. I admit that I know very little about the 2 schools you have mentioned, but regardless of where you end up, it will be up to you how well spent your time at whatever university you go to is. Have you spent any time with practicing podiatrists or asked current or past students about their experiences of these places? Along with the QAA reports that Simon has kindly pointed you towards, you would do well to hear a first hand version of each of your intended choices to help you to make your decision.

    Whichever school you end up at, I wish you the best of luck in your studies and your future career. :)
     
  4. Bob, you get a panel of "experts" from the profession.
     
  5. twirly

    twirly Well-Known Member

    Have heard rumours that Durham maybe closing?

    Can anyone confirm these rumours???
     
  6. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    You may also want to check out how many staff have actually worked as Podiatrists (as opposed to going into teaching straight from graduation).
     
  7. sam_wallwork

    sam_wallwork Active Member

    I studied at Durham and now work in Manchester and speaking to the students from Salford. From what they have told me regarding the course i would recommend Salford.

    Sam
     
  8. maxants33

    maxants33 Active Member

    Wow - great replies from all the master Pods !

    Salford looks like the top choice then. I just needed that bit of outside opinion to calm me down.

    Also - thanks for the links simon, they sure make interesting sifting and add weight to the Salford choice - as do rumours !Thanks a bunch guys !
     
  9. blumley

    blumley Active Member

    im at durham at the moment in first year and love it :) no its not closing btw. the classes are small and there is a real personal touch about the teaching, plus the clinics start pretty much straight away one day a week.

    i know nothing of salford so can only speak about durham
     
  10. maxants33

    maxants33 Active Member

    Hello Blumley
    That is exactly what appeals to me about Durham - close and personal - I read they have some of best success rates for mature students because of that close guidance. Im reasonable sure the Salford cohort is at least 2x the size of the Durham cohort.


    The issue is - Salford is on the cutting edge
    - Durham is very personal

    My dilemma is : If I went to Durham - would that be a huge loss - not to be on the cutting edge ?

    I guess its a case of how long is a piece of spaghetti ?
     
  11. blumley

    blumley Active Member

    to be honest i have never felt like we are missing anything cutting edge wise. the more advanced stuff i couldnt tell you about as that is second year stuff. I do love my course tho and it is an amazing experience, with a good mix of age ranges throughout the course.
     
  12. bob

    bob Active Member

    Hello,

    If (BIG IF!) Salford can provide you with a better degree and prepare you for your future working life better than Durham, you still have to consider your quality of life for the next three years. As I said earlier, degree level study is probably more dependent on the student rather than the lecturers. If you are bright and motivated (and I do not doubt that you are - especially since you have already gone to the trouble of finding this website and posting on it) you will do well in either university. It depends what type of environment you prefer as well - Salford is very close to Manchester city centre and would provide more of a 'big city' experience (with all the associated good and bad parts no doubt), Durham is a much smaller place and sounds a more intimate course. It really depends what you want? I have limited personal experience of both areas, but I know which one I would rather spend a weekend in! Parts of Greater Manchester seem nice, but Salford would not be included in the nice parts (my opinion of course, feel free to disagree).

    I doubt that anyone can give you a truly impartial and accurate view on both degrees and both areas. Make sure you go to each of the universities before you make a commitment for the next few years and make your own mind up about where you want to live. If and when you get a 1st class degree from either university, you really will not need to worry about whether you would have fared better at the other choice. Good luck.

    To Simon - thanks for the reply. Hopefully using people from within the profession improves the chances of giving a better review for the QAA. I presume this would be very variable depending on who selects these individuals and between each of the assessors and their experience, but I also presume that this variability would be very difficult to successfully manage.
     
  13. maxants33

    maxants33 Active Member

    Thanks for the advice Bob
    I too am inclined to live in Durham, I really like the look of the school and think I stand a much better chance of doing well there, but one thing I have not mentioned in previous posts is the fact that my girlfriend lives in Liverpool - and I am under growing pressure to choose Salford for its NorthWest proximity. She also dislikes Durham.

    I was hoping someone would post -
    "Choose Salford - its one of the best!"

    just so that this decision would be easyer to swallow - but it seems nothing is that simple:santa2:


    I have chosen Salford now, its too late to change my mind as I just posted my rejection letter for Durham.
    Salford looks like a good school - and Manchester is a nice town - what ever the case Im really excited to get studying !


    BTW : A BIG THANK YOU TO ALL STUDENT AND JEDI LEVEL PODS WHO CONTRIBUTED TO THIS THREAD !!!!:drinks
     
  14. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    Can anyone explain how or why Salford is at the "cutting edge"?
    I'm not denigrating Salford - I'm sure they are a perfectly good School, as is Durham btw. Just to put things in perspective - we're talking about a three-year undergraduate podiatry degree here - not some international post-graduate brain surgery programme.

    Durham is perfectly adequate for obtaining a pod degree (I did my top-up degree there). It's a smallish university town well-supplied with pubs and coffee-shops. It gets cold and damp in the winter months - Salford probably does too.
    If you live in Durham and want to visit the fleshpots of Newcastle, and the Bigg Market:eek: the train service is excellent.

    The end product of the course, wherever you do it (and actually, I don't think it matters a great deal), is the degree. It should be considered a stepping-stone rather than a final product. How good a stepping-stone depends on how good your final results are.
    A good Hons degree (2.1 or a First) in Podiatry is accepted pretty much anywhere in the UK for entry to post-grad study or research. You could go on to do a PhD or a Masters at Durham University or similar prestigious establishment. You could even change careers and do Medicine or Law. That could be considered cutting edge I guess.
     
  15. chrisvix

    chrisvix Member

    I'm at salford 1st year pod degree and loving it. I don't know of any bad points about it although i'm sure there are some. You start treating patients from week 12 of the course and the tutors are really helpful, friendly and approachable. Best thing i ever did.
     
  16. carolethecatlover

    carolethecatlover Active Member

    I don't know how the system works in the UK, but will you get other offers if you just sit and wait? Carole in Sydney
     
  17. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    There you go - Salford is ok too.

    The OP wanted to go to Salford because he wanted to be near his girlfriend and she said she didn't like Durham. As good a reason as any for choosing Salford, and none of this "cutting edge" b*ll*cks.

    TBH if we'd known that at the beginning it would probably have killed the thread:D.
     
  18. maxants33

    maxants33 Active Member

    Id say Salford looks pretty cutting edge to me - Ive seen 4 podiatry undergrad training facilities now and Salford is by many many miles the most modern - packed with WOW factor - Slaford also runs many MSc programs in a wide variety orthopaedic areas - so they are training physios, orthopaedic Drs, podiatrists, nurses, OTs, orthosits and radiographers all under one roof at undergrad and postgrad level. I've read its good for interdisciplinary teaching and they even invented an insole there - the salfordinsole TM (they clearly have a very creative marketing dept too)


    where as Durham is a small Podiatry school where they also train aromatherapists.

    To be fair - Durham looks like a truley great school with some really nice staff - and I would really like to have gone there - more than salford I think,

    the point of this thread was to find out something I did not already know - so as to help me make a decisive decision - to justify my choice of uni and it not be the result of my partner twisting my arm - thats how it kind of feels (but the less said the better)



    --- Also: I hope no one thinks I've wasted their time - all responses have been greatly appreciated and have helped to soothed my microwaved brain !
     
  19. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    One of the more enjoyable recent threads, so thanks for that.
    Re - cutting edge - Salford may have great facilities, but remember that you are there to do an undergraduate degree - the MSc stuff comes later.

    Right at the beginning of the thread you were advised - look at the staff quals and what they've produced in terms of Papers etc, and I advised - look at the staff and see if any have actually done the job (as opposed to going from student straight to lecturer after qualification. It's easy to look at the quals and think "he/she has an MSc/PhD, so they must be good", which isn't necessarily the case.

    Anyway, as I said - a good thread.
    One other thing - you need to find the equivalent of the Newcastle Bigg Market.
    This should be a mandatory experience for all Podiatry students, and unless things have changed a lot recently, will stand you in good stead in future years at Conferences and professional days-away:D.
     
  20. vt1311

    vt1311 Member

    Hi!

    I graduated from Salford in June 2010, and absolutely loved the course! I commuted to University from home, so I cannot comment on living in halls and the social side of things in Manchester etc, but as for the Podiatry department at Salford University itself, I would definately recommend it.
    A good friend who was on the course with me did her first year in Durham, transferred to Salford in her second year. Athough this is very subjective, from what she said, the course material seemed very different, and without passing too much comment, I think you would definately gain more at Salford.
    There are benefits to Durham being more personal (I did my 1st year at Salford part time, with a very small cohort, and this proved to be a very successful set up for most of the part time students, ie more one on one teaching). Although, I never felt as though the size of the full time cohort at Salford was too big.
    The tutors are also very approachable and really friendly, so you never feel left on your own if you need any help or advice.
    Hope this helps!!! Any questions about the course, feel free to ask me.

    Good luck!!!

    V
     
  21. maxants33

    maxants33 Active Member

    Thanks vt1311, its really great to hear detailed points of view like that


    - David
    I discovered slaford has some really nice looking night spots (see below) - they might not compair to the Bigg Market but it is whats on the inside that counts!
     

    Attached Files:

  22. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    maxants,
    Great picture - I didn't realise that the club I frequented in my student days was still standing ! :D

    CF
     
  23. 2whiskers1

    2whiskers1 Member

    Hi,
    I studied at Southampton Uni where they focused a lot on reserach but we lacked in much needed practical skills and biomechanics. We also had a podiatry clinic close by which was great for clinical placement but places were limited. Also consider distance to home as you won't want hours of travelling during the holidays.

    Worth considering also.

    Good luck.
     
  24. footfan

    footfan Active Member

    Im in Salford Univeristy every week, Youll see me in Podopaediatrics on a Monday. Salford has one of the best gait labratories in Europe ,we cant talk about who uses it for obvious reasons (patient confidentiality) but the lecturers we can so the big names here are:

    Biomechs
    Chris Nester
    Andrew Findlow
    Peter Bowden
    Neale Brown

    Diabetes
    Andrea Graham
    Anita Williams
    Michael Harrison


    All have or are working at Doctorates, We have consultant pod surgeons in most weeks and if you want to be seriousy impressed in biomechs talk to Richard Jones- im not sure but think hes a professor now?? he does the research on army rucksacks, boots ect ect

    Manchester is one of the best cities ive been to and travel is cheap and very good. Buses are evry 10 minutes but if you use the trains you can expect to pay £1 return to the city centre as a student.
    Now the bad news:

    YOU WILL NEVER USE THE ALL SINGING ALL DANCING GAIT LAB...................EVER. Ive only ever been in twice =O and most students have never been in there other than the tour. Youll be lucky to use the RScan in your time here because theres simply not enough time.

    Salford has a very high crime rate, my car has been broken into and my house had its windows smashed when i lived there.

    The fabrication room for orthoses is small in comparison to the Prosthetics and orthotics lab as they get all the money, but what you do need is there- vac forms, ovens , grinders ect ect.


    As long as your sensible about where you park your car and walk at night you shouldnt have trouble. Manchester is fantastic and some of the university lecturers are immense - Neale Brown, Andrea Graham , Michael harrison and Pete Bowden especially.

    If you work hard at Salford you will stand out and there are student fellowships avaliable over summer so you can be working on real research within a university setting, this year was imaging and footwear papers which will be published in the near future.


    Which ever you decide if you work hard and are friendly youll go far , good luck with your studies =D
     
  25. carolethecatlover

    carolethecatlover Active Member

    As a student in Australia,I am in envy of the amount of practical 'seeing patients' UK students seem to get, and from 12 weeks into the course! (not until into the 2nd year here) PLEASE. My course says students have a 1000 hours of patient contact.....I have one day a week clinic and maybe, if I am lucky, see 3 patients, that 8 hours is added into the 1000, but I used 4. I NEED PRACTICE!
    I weep with frustration that I did not do this as a young person in the UK!
    But there is NIL crime and NIL nightlife, .........
     
  26. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    Hi CTCL,

    "But there is NIL crime" - big plus in my book. Now that I live out in the sticks we have nil crime too - it's nice:drinks.

    The amount of practical hours undertaken by Pod students was bound to come up on this thread sooner or later. I count myself lucky that I did the old vocational three-year Diploma course. I believe we started with patients within the first four weeks. The Diploma was largely based on basic practical work, there being no research element attached to the course.
    Both skin surgery and LA courses were post-qualification, LA not being in common usage by UK chiropodists in 1971. Likewise my Radiology course was post-qual.
    A bonus to being trained in the early years in the use of LA was that we practiced on each other.
    The benefits were: Instant (sometimes loud) feedback if you were ham-fisted, and a keen willingness to practice good injection technique, based on the simple fact that your "patient" was going to stick a similar needle in you in about five minutes time.

    When I did my top-up degree (much later) I was able to focus on the research aspect, and carry out a piece of research of my own from beginning to end, including choosing my own topic (not from a list provided by Uni, which I am aware happens in some Uni's for both Pod and Physio students), writing a study protocol, gaining ethics committee approval from a local NHS PCT, carrying out invasive technique research, statistical analysis, and giving a presentation of my work to lecturers and some fellow students.

    I believe that this amount of final-year research is now uncommon although it was quite usual in the early top-up degrees, which were either two years part-time for an Hons degree, or a much shorter stint for a BSc.

    I really wonder how UK Schools of Podiatry fit the syllabus together to contain both adequate practical work to ensure basic clinical skills, and the academic work which has elevated the course to degree-level.
     
  27. footfan

    footfan Active Member

    Its quite similar for Bsc (Hons) at Salford you do choose your own dissertation project in your final year, you do a VIVA presentation to present finding in another study , you formally critique a paper submitted for publication in a journal , you learn about Institutional Review Board protocol and research methods that negate it , you will be taught to use SPSS software and conduct statistical analysis ect ect.

    Its quite good for an undergraduate module. The thing that most people struggled with was statistical analysis and the presentation on lifestyle modification for drinking and smoking cessation for foundation medicine.
     
  28. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    Certainly sounds similar. Did you do a research project too?

    How do you fit in the practical work?
     
  29. chrisvix

    chrisvix Member

    sorry, it was from week 7 not week 12 when we started treating patients, bit daunting at first but tutors are really supportive .
     
  30. footfan

    footfan Active Member

    Its strange really at Salford they dont do it as one project or as one single module. The poster presentation and VIVA is 2nd year (Level 5) on knee kinematics or plantar pressure relief and the methods of enquiry dissertation is year 3 (level 6) you can do any research you wish but............you only do a literature review and project proposal this is why as i said in a previous post students will never use the all singing trillion pound gait lab that was used in famous studies such as the investigation into the reliability of external body markers where they inserted metal rods into bone (in sweden) and then compared the two =D

    To be honest the ratio of theory/ practical is spot on at Salford, they remind you very early on you are READING PODIATRY i.e you read in your spare time as much as possible as its not possible to teach all aspects of podiatry in 3 years. This is combined with exposure to in theatre observations with pod surgeons so you see your role from bread and butter to the most senior consultant position.

    In this aspect they are very good at Salford.
     
  31. Natalie.1024

    Natalie.1024 Welcome New Poster

    Hiya, I'm just chipping in to agree with what a few people have said about Salford, good and bad!

    On the good side, the staff are brilliant, really approachable and the facilities are fantastic. I don't really agree with the anonymous comment though, because despite the size of the cohort, there has always been a great rapport between the staff and students. Our year was divided into 2 groups and then subdivided into a further 2 groups (A1 and A2; B1 and B2) and we spent tutorial and clinical time in our smaller groups (we were only all together for lectures). The staff learnt our names straight away which was great, and it has always been really cosy and friendly in our groups. And the atmosphere on clinics is brilliant, which is just what you need when you are nervous and learning the ropes.

    In response to Jon Griffin, most of us were really lucky last year and got to use the gait lab as part of a student's PhD, which was a real learning experience! Some other students volunteered as part of a study on back braces too, which was not in the gait lab, but opportunities to participate in studies can pop up :)

    On the bad side, Salford as a city is a bit grim! There are some nice areas nearby though, but it would depend obviously on your financial situation/whether you can drive, etc. I have lived in Stretford and Urmston all my life (27 years!) so I would recommend Trafford (not Old Trafford though!) or Salford Quays, because they are nearby and easy to travel to and from (I don't drive). Didsbury and Chorlton have a lot of large houses that are divided for students/house shares and a vibrant atmosphere. It's quite easy to get to Manchester from these places and then on to Salford from there, if anyone who doesn't drive/know the area and are thinking of Salford, reads this.

    Hope this helps somebody out there! :)

    P.S. If Chrisvix reads this, then I will most probably see you next February because I am on a year's maternity leave (pants timing!) and will be joining your year then!
     
  32. footfan

    footfan Active Member

    What did you use/do? Was the back braces for P & O ??

    Jon
     
  33. Natalie.1024

    Natalie.1024 Welcome New Poster

    For the PhD study, we just had to answer a questionnaire on any foot problems we have experienced, then had the body markers put on us and we had to walk on the force plates over and over again. A few days later, Peter Bowden assessed our foot function/ROM of joints. What they were trying to find out, I do not know, and what I was told went in one ear and out of the other tbh, because it was all in terms I was not familiar with at that point. We were given the impression it was a pretty revolutionary and important study, so we will see!

    As for the back braces, I was just there with 3 mates in Brian Blatchford, so I'd imagine it was for P&O. Tbh, I was too busy laughing at my mates because they looked terrified because they had to wear these vest things that looked like they were made out of large tubigrips with arm holes, then got wrapped up in plaster of paris bandages! The guy who was doing it never said what he was aiming to do though, but I think it was to do with the shape of braces but I could be wrong! I'm blaming baby brain! :D
     
  34. footfan

    footfan Active Member

    Thats cool, Pete did some work on the midtarsal Joint but that was in 2002 so probably something else.

    Good luck with the baby :D
     
  35. Natalie.1024

    Natalie.1024 Welcome New Poster

    Thanks a lot, I'm gonna need it! :D Good luck too, with your career and everything :)
     
  36. Hi,
    Well as you may be able to guess my opinion will be pretty biased, so I shall try to keep the subliminal messages to a minimum *COME TO QUEEN MARGARET*, I also faced a similar choice between those two uni's, although I never had a chance to visit the Durham campus I did make the trip to Salford.... their department was great, but the surrounding area is definately a little rough (I used to live in Glasgow, so that's saying something!) *COME TO QUEEN MARGARET*
    In the spirit of mixing everything up I ditched both those choices and chose to come up to Edinburgh to study, definately a right decision for me.
    I'd be more than happy to ramble on about QMU all day *COME TO QUEEN MARGARET*, but I shall save that for another day, just remember to keep your options open and no matter what it's not only what the course is like it's what the uni is like too, afterall you won't be spending all your time studying!

    Good luck! *COME TO QUEEN MARGARET*
     
  37. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    I think this is a very good point.
     
  38. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    That's certainly the line I would use if I wanted to impress some undergrads.......:rolleyes:.
     
  39. Peter

    Peter Well-Known Member

    I went to Durham when they had some good lecturers, but sadly most of those stalwarts have moved on/retired/left the profession.
    I would recommend Salford, they seem to have better facilities, and produce more papers from its students/researchers, which is always a good plus. they link up well with the Ortotist school as well, another plus.
     
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