4 year masters course at LaTrobe

Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.

Apparently Latrobe is following Melbourne Uni from 2009 onwards, and implementing a 'general' first year and subsequent specialised 3 years that will enable the student to go from zero to masters in one 4 year hit.


Are we not dudding ourselves and the consumer? How will the health consumer distinguish between a green graduate with 'masters' associated with their qualification, and someone else.

I do not know too much about the bonefide masters course in podiatry, which requires more time, effort and experience then just 4 years of psuedo-undergraduate study.

In my physiotherapy masters, it required 2+ years real-world experience initially; $15,000+ Australian; 11 subjects and 2 years part-time or 1 year full-time.

Have podiatry students got better from a 3 year course to a 4 years course. Will they get better from going from bachelor to masters. What are the outcome measures?


Less logic and more confusion for most concerned IMO.

 

Re: 4 year masters course

Atlas

I am sure you have made some valid points. :morning:

No disrespect to any programs intended and least of all La Trobe when I write this is a time for bums (fanny is your are in the US) on seats and keeping universities from bankruptcy. Years of governmental under funding and lack of external accountability within the public universities has nurtured a quasi entrepreneurial culture where campuses have consistently changed the academic goal posts to attract more fee paying students. This has come at a cost and arguably led in institutes of higher education to a culture of academic creep.

Read Masters degree, for Honours Degree and fundamentally the project you refer to is 'same old, same old.' However I agree these new programs confirm a Master's degree no longer remains a higher degree, (gained at a post graduate level), instead it down grades it to an undergraduate program.

Information about the status concerning whether this is a professional masters or academic masters, would be important to any further debate. In the model, the former, I can accept but the latter goes against the convention of academe. But bare in mind there are no sacred cows anymore and particularly with recession and inflation imminent

Once one university sets the template for commercial success (and gets away with it), like flies to the flypaper, the rest follow and hang the consequence.

Spare a thought tho’ for those working in university (many are already overworked); when their employer says you will do …………you do. :boohoo:

Universities are acknowledged as the places of work, where a bullying culture still prevails. :deadhorse:

From the playground to the classroom.

 

Re: 4 year masters course

netizens

Always pays dividends to do your research :santa2:

I understand the new program at La Trobe is a foundation year followed by a 2 year UG degree topped with a trisemester masters in the final year. Other universities are likely to follow the model.

The foundation year with the two year specialisation means a three year undergraduate program (for registration) - no quantum change there , except itwould give pod students the opportunity to 'earn and learn' in the final Masters year. Now that I like.

Of course much will depend on the motivation of the registerable pods as to whether there is sufficient incentive to complete a Master program. The experience elsewhere is not too encouraging. The problem too with foundation years is students may not opt for a podiatry stream at the end of their study year. For funding purposes there is a heavily weighted expectation, they will.

Watch this space.

 

Re: 4 year masters course

Perhaps I can clarify I few things in relation to the new double degree program at La Trobe as Curriculum Coordinator for the Department. The La Trobe Model is quite different to the Melbourne Model that has been mentioned and I think will serve the interests of students much better than that proposed by the University of Melbourne.

As you know, the Department of Podiatry at La Trobe University is redesigning its podiatry program. This is part of a larger reform process currently taking place in the Faculty of Health Sciences at La Trobe. A strong foundation in interprofessional studies, integrated curricula, flexible entry and exits points for students, and improved access to professional programs on regional campuses are just a few of the features of the new curriculum.

From 2009, students will enter a Common First Year program for all health sciences courses. This has an emphasis on interprofessional education. Now, this is where it gets a little confusing so I will attempt to explain in the most straightforward manner that I can manage.

Following this, students complete a further two years of study (in their chosen discipline - eg. podiatry) which leads to the award of the Bachelor of Health Science (non-registrable degree). Students could choose to exit at this point (for example, to a graduate entry master program in another discipline or in another area of study - eg. health policy). An exit point for students who decide that work in their discipline is no longer preferable. After the third year, students complete the fourth and final year of study which qualifies them to register to practice. However, the third year and fourth years they have completed will articulate (cross-match) with the Master of Podiatric Practice. These students (who go all the way) will be awarded the Bachelor of Health Science/Master of Podiatric Practice double degree.

It is possible that applicants who have a prior degree and who fulfil the knowledge pre-requisites of the program could apply for entry to the two-year Master of Podiatric Practice degree and register to practice at the end of the two-year program. (Atlas, I think you completed your podiatry degree after completing studies in physiotherapy? Under this model, you would probably gain entry to the two year Masters degree, perhaps with some summer school work, and be eligible for registration at the end of this two year program). I hope this all makes sense?

The questions you ask in relation to the point/s of difference between current gradautes and future graduates are relevant. In terms of the Masters issue it must be acknowledged that different types of Masters programs currently exist in this country and internationally. There are pure coursework Masters programs, Masters by research programs, some that are combination of the two with a minor thesis component. The type of Masters we are talking about here is probably aligned more closely to a coursework Masters in its nature.

The major point of difference in these new suite of programs at La Trobe, however, is in the teaching and learning paradigm and pedagogy that will be used. Much of the criticism of graduates at the present time relates to the passive nature of students and an absence of any sense of inquiry and critical thinking and problem solving skills. Clinicians complain of the students' inability to link theory to practice and to apply what they have learnt at university in the context of the client sitting in their chair. These are valid concerns and highlight a major issue with current tertiary education.

As a discipline, Podiatry is evolving as we speak and access to restricted drugs and diagnostic services in this country is proof that the role of the podiatrist is expanding and the expectations of podiatrists in the community and amongst policy makers are changing. We need to develop graduates capable of meeting these demands and we need to develop their sense of inquiry, independent learning and the skills to support these.

The LaTrobe model hopes to meet the needs of the profession in the future. I apologise for the very long-winded response to this thread and chances are that I have failed to respond to the issues you raise. If I have, please make this known and I would be more than happy to provide more information.

Regards,

Matt Oates
Curriculum Coordinator
Department of Podiatry
La Trobe University

 

Re: 4 year masters course

Matt

Why "Master of Podiatric Practice"?

Huh? Why invent a new vague descriptor for the degree?

Why not, "Master of Podiatry", or "Master of Podiatric Medicine" or similar?

It bugs me that every degree program in the world has a different term, except the US where it is consistent across the whole country.

Seems to me the best degree progression for consistency around the world would be:

1. Bachelor of Podiatric Medicine (eg UWA)
2. Master of Podiatric Medicine
3. Doctor of Podiatric Medicine (eg USA)

LL

 

Faculty decision. The title highlights the fact that the Masters programs are preparing graduates for registration to practice.

I think a better title might be Master of Podiatry Practice rather than Podiatric Practice. This would sit much more nicely with Master of Physiotherapy Practice, Master of Occupational Therapy Practice, etc.

Matt

 

So what do all of the current Bachelor degree programs do?

If there truly is some desparate need to run a Master's degree program in order to just receive a registrable degree, I would have thought that the Registration Boards and the APodC would have delivered some evidence that this was indeed the case?

Sorry to sound cynical but its hard to not assume there is some kind of economic benefit for the university in re-badging a 4 year Bachelor program as a combined Master's/Bachelor degree, simple to allow a registant to practice...You may as well slip over the border to Newcastle and do a 3-year registrable degree...Perhaps this is just local university politics is at play (ie keeping up with Melbourne Uni). And who, other than the Registration Boards, determines what is registrable?

I am the first to be promoting higher educational degrees in podiatry to enable broader scope of practice, but this just doesn't add up to me. It certainly dumbs down the Master's degree I worked hard at getting.

Pity the podiatry students exiting LaTrobe with a 4 year degree prior to this new program coming on-line, they must be fuming?:wacko:

LL

 

Well .... uuummm ..... off course it is! Universities are under increaseing financial pressures and podiatry is a smaller and more expensive course (why do you think that Curtin and UWS closed?). The Universities have to respond to the restraints they are being placed under. Different universities are responding differently.

The response at La Trobe is just that. You can rest assured that a lot of work is being put into it (esp by Matt) to make sure its not sort of dumbed down qualification. A lot of work is being spent on delivery methods etc (based on evidence) etc etc.

 

I agree whole heartedly. This is about $$$$$$$. The universities don't give a toss about the implications to the profession. It's about bums on seats and pounds in pockets.

Dumbing down- similar tale here in the UK when 3 year degree students graduated to find they could have done a 6 week correspondence course, then rather than spending approx 2 years 10 and a bit months in further study, could have worked as "chiropodists" earning hard cash and then "grand-parented" on to the HPC register anyway- as some contributers on this list did- do I personally accept you as an equal? You are ****ing joking. Try explaining that one to the recent graduate who worked hard for their 3 year degree and ended up with several thousand pounds worth of debt, as I frequently had to as a head of School.

I've already mentioned the "alleged" lack of academic rigour in certain master courses here in the UK. As a PhD, one of my personal favourites is the "professional doctorate"- bollocks= money makes the world go around, the world go around...

Lots of swearing tonight- I must be passionate.

 

There is no doubt that the implementation of a Common First Year program across an entire Faculty is not driven, in part, by the need to rationalise resources. It would be remiss to think this was not the case.

La Trobe, like other tertiary institutions, is having to respond to a range of local and global issues to ensure its longterm viability. The benefits to this new program is in the calibre of graduate it intends to produce (time will tell if we achieve this) and the opportunity for those applicants who have completed relevant tertiary study previously or have years of experience in relevant industries to accelerate their progress towards a qualification in Podiatry. As I think I said in my initial response, theory and practice will be integrated and students encouraged to take a more active role in their learning.

Registration Boards and professional bodies like the APodC are responsible for determining competency standards for new graduates and I am encouraged by the possibility of national competency standards and associated accreditation of university courses. Rest assured, Universities will always want to produce graduates who meet industry standards for practice.

So, why not slip over to Newcastle and obtain a 3 year degree? Why not? Reputations of courses are built on the qualities of the graduate produced. This happens already and employers of podiatry graduates will undoubtedly identify differences between graduates of different universities. Ultimately, the market will decide if the La Trobe double degree or graduate entry masters graduate is worth employing. I believe they will be.

As a Bachelor of Podiatry graduate myself, I am not concerned about my degree being superceded by a new degree. We've seen this before when those with Diplomas were superceded by those with Bachelor degrees. Remember, university degrees are only the first step in a lifetime of learning and professional development and improvement. As long as we can continue to practice competently and safely mindful of the advances in our profession and able to meet the contemporary challenges that face us, we will stand the test of time.

 

Well said Matthew.

A piece of paper will turn yellow with time. An exercised mind will not.

Jair

 

Hey Matt, isn't the Masters year fee-paying? How much is the good ol' Trobe intending to charge?

Any chance of the Master of Podiatric Practice course being Commonwealth supported? As an aside, I understand that Austudy which a majority of undergraduate students depend on while studying, is inapplicable for students doing postgraduate courses. Now, imagine the financial burden of that on continuing students. After all a basic science degree alone doesn't have a lot of job prospects, making viable part-time work difficult while pursuing the Masters.

 

Nope. Its Commenwealth supported.