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burkini banned on beaches; world getting more ridiculous

Discussion in 'Break Room' started by markjohconley, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member


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    " mother of two ... fined on the beach in nearby Cannes wearing leggings, a tunic and a headscarf.

    Her ticket, ...., read that she was not wearing ?an outfit respecting good morals and secularism?."

    France you are ridiculous! what a farce; apart from her face and feet she was covered and this somehow, in small-minded, religious-bigoted France, means, 'she was not wearing "an outfit respecting good morals ..." ' ! .... down the beach they're in the starkers, short and curlies and all ....

    Using the same principles, surely all crosses, kippots should also be banned / wearers fined.

    Cannes is one of the culprits, maybe time to boycott the Film Festival, May, 2017
     
  2. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Have to disagree. I applauded. The French are kicking back at the Muslim outrage that prevents Christians from wearing bikinis in Muslim countries, or consume alcohol, or have Christian Churches. Good for you France. And let's not forget the Islamic Terrorism that is killing and raping women and children, boys and girls by the many, many hundreds across Europe. There is no place, for Tea & Sympathy and liberal, carrot crunching tree huggers.
     
  3. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    So France is also guilty of pettiness and religious bigotry.
    Whose forgetting atrocities world-wide by Muslims, Christians, Jews etc.
    And the cycle continues.
    Whose sympathetic?
    Just critical of petty religious bigoted actions.
    "liberal, carrot crunching tree huggers", clever; got me in one, certainly liberal / progressive, love my vegetables (meat is relatively tasteless; needs sauces for flavour), never have hugged one but not against it, certainly 3/4 green.
     
  4. Always have a smile when clothes are considered subversive. I've a collection of jalabas and tunics from Sudan to Afghanistan as they are comfy to wear, catch crumbs and there's only one item for the laundry basket at the end of the day! And what about nuns, Dieter? Don't tell me Catholics aren't dangerous...;)
     

    Attached Files:

  5. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    "All violence is the result of people tricking themselves into believing that their pain derives from other people and that consequently those people deserve to be punished". Marshall Rosenberg

    "Every criticism, judgement, diagnosis and expression of anger is the tragic expression of an unmet need". Marshall Rosenberg

    The tricky bit is identifying that unmet though apparently it's not that tricky.

    It's amazing how satisfyingly unsatisfying it is to point the finger and rage. When I do this now I make a great mental effort to turn the pointing finger towards myself.

    A long time ago I was having a rather heated argument with my wife where the other was of course completely in the wrong. At the same time as we were apportioning culpability the dog was jumping up and down behind the front door because he wanted to go for a walk. After a few minutes of this I pointed to the dog and shouted, "That's the *!?k up factor"

    The next second I was on the floor, in hysterics. The total ludicrousness of what I had said roared up from my subconscious and had me on the floor laughing before my conscious mind caught up. Ever since I have made a great effort to point to the real *!?k up factor, though I try to be a bit kinder to myself recognising that one of my unmet needs is not being met. Maybe it's just me and maybe it's all men but often I find it difficult to identify my unmet needs. It feels much more manly to rage and totally unmanly to feel the vulnerability and seek the cause, especially if the cause seems so trivial and childish or to put it another way demonstrates sensitivity.

    There is a song by a French singer, Alain Suchon, entitled "Allo maman bobo".

    A bit of background, the words "maman bobo" are typically used by a child who has, for example, cut a finger, hit himself on the finger with a hammer, banged his head, etc as he runs to his/her mum for comfort, etc but in the song Suchon is an adult, walking on his own along a railway line, although this may represent how he sees his life. Anyway in the chorus "allo maman bobo" he seems to be feeling the vulnerability of a child while simultaneously searching for his mother to comfort him and blaming her for his vulnerability, sensitivity.

    Bill
     
  6. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    That doesn't sound right to me. I don't believe that such a law exists. This has the ring of the made up about it.

    Can you give us the source?

    Bill
     
  7. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    The general rule is that all monotheistic religions are potentially dangerous and the level of danger is directly proportional to the number of bums on seats in their indoctrination centres (churches, chapels, mosques, synagogues, ?etc.)

    Bill
     
  8. I think there's just a lot of crazy people out there - it's been a long time since the last significant human cull and the numbers have grown again. Some attach themselves to a religion and claim their own special deity is issuing instructions and others just don't give a fcuk and entertain us to their own brand of insanity. And crazy doesn't mean uneducated - often quite the reverse.
     
  9. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Pettiness? ... perhaps you are too far removed from the wholesale slaughter of the infidel by the Islamic terrorist movement that is hitting 28 countries. Like it or not, ISIS is at war with the world. That includes you, and your loved ones. When this reality hits you in a more personal sense it's likely your liberal views might be adjusted. That element of self loathing western culture beggars belief and understanding. But, I forgive you.
     
  10. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Mark,

    I have yet to see a nun behead a man, rape a child or a woman, blow up innocent people wearing suicide vests, mow down hundreds of people in a truck, recruit and kidnap children to wear suicide vests., assault / wound and kill people in the street / on trains or wherever they can with a machete. Make no mistake, this element will attack Muslims as well as Christians with equal fervor if they choose to not subscribe the Islamic fundamentalism. It's time to pick your side. You are with your own people, or you are not.
     
  11. There aren't any sides, Dieter, we are really all the same. That is the fundamental fact that humanity will have to accept. The people you describe are your brother and sister and mine too with their own perspective just as you have yours. You don't think we can solve it other than by killing each other? Of course we can - if we really want to. It will take many generations before we can really sustain peaceful coexistence, but that road starts with two things; forgiveness and love - with equality, education, honesty and respect as travelling companions.

    Here's a genuine suggestion, Dieter. This weekend, pop along to your local mosque and introduce yourself to the Imam and share your thoughts with him. Tell him that you cannot understand why some of the Islamic faith are acting in the way you describe and see what he has to say. Please come back and tell us how you got on.

    Kind regards

    Mark
     
  12. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

  13. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    ISIS, where have I stated support for those crazies? The Wahhabi (Salafi) sect are the crazies of the Muslim world.
    "self loathing" only as far as the injustices / wrongs that my country and its allies commit, and there are many, obviously, whence did ISIS form?
    Dieter certainly don't need your "type"'s forgiveness, but thanks anyway, mark
     
  14. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry I missed the article featuring these burkini clad ladies killing anyone.

    Beheading, shooting, knifing, bombing are all killing!

    ...and Christians and Jews and everyone else aren't raping women and children?

    "blowing up innocent people", abominable, but how, again, is that different from using bombs and guns to 'blow' up innocent civilians?

    Again your assigning the actions of the crazy extremist faction of the Muslim world to the faith? Do you also blame Christianity for the invasions and sanctions by the Western world on Middle Eastern countries? Do you blame Judaism for Zionist terrorist activities?

    Sorry Dieter, you're a scream, how stupid you sound. I am certainly against all injustices / wrongs whoever they're committed by; aren't you ashamed of ours?
     
  15. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    sorry deleted a repeat post
     
  16. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

     
  17. The US Army basically has done the same in the middle east last 20 years
     
  18. Indeed , I read an economics article a few years ago looking at the European economy and it stated Europe needs another major human loss ie black plague , Spanish Flu major war to survive kind of crazy thing but .....
     
  19. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    Mark suggests to dieter to go along to his local mosque and start a dialoge with the imam. I do hope Dieters local is not finsbury park mosque. because mark you will have murdered poor old dieter.
     
  20. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Hmmm... well, possibly (i.e. Dieter's life being at risk)... after all, it is evident that there is an alarming percentage of muslims who can't tolerate having their faith/ideology (islam) assessed/critiqued (i.e. remember the Salman Rushdie issue, as well as various others since then). All other faiths/religions (I can think of) have copped a fair bit of critique of various forms of ridicule over the decades (at least) & subsequently can tolerate such without the repercussions of a terrorist/killing spree being 'ordained' by the "religion of peace" (oh, that being islam). Heaven forbid one would publicly cite an 'unsavoury' cartoon (or an 'unsavoury' film) of islam's prophet for example... but you'll be safe if you did likewise on Jesus (well, I'm pretty sure on that).

    However, Dieter doesn't need to visit his "local mosque" & introduce himself to the "Imam" (well, he can if he wants)... but there's plenty of evidence out there to inform us what many muslims (alarmingly) believe... & it sure as hell ain't equality. I would like to think this isn't the case but I'm frequently disappointed by the expressed (voiced) views/sentiments on nearly a daily basis. There's plenty of such sentiments found within islamic texts (quran, hadiths & sunnah) as well as such voiced from their own mouths to support such debasing views. For example, this following video (& there are plenty of others of similar ilk) i.e. British islamist stating the contradictions between a "charter of the United nations" & that of islam... on sovereignty & equality. There are muslims who evidently believe this puerile debasing rubbish (& find it funny)... but hey, it appears he could be a salafi muslim (going by the microphone)... do these kind count for muslim? (Hmmm... now that's another touchy subject)



    But what about "normal" or "common" muslims (words used to describe their standing within the following video). What do these muslims really believe i.e. what the muslim speaker thinks/teaches... & what the muslim congregation agrees with via the raising of their hand ("every muslim believes these things" says the speaker)... such things pertaining to "punishments described in the quran & sunnah" (says the speaker)... & "to be applied in the world" (says the speaker) i.e. "death penalty for homosexuals... or "death penalty for this crime, or this crime" (what crimes would they be - ones outlined within sharia law per chance?), "stoning", "subjugate women etc. etc..." "These are general views that every muslim actually has" says the muslim speaker. Watch it, listen to it... after all, it comes from the horse's mouth so to speak.



    Disturbed by the video (views/sentiments outlined)? Any non-muslim damn well should be (I would think... & so would they based on their agreed views)! This ain't ISIS/Daesh (to blame) here - it's just "normal (sunni) muslims" - the ones who (apparently) reside down at your local mosque (well, at least in Norway - where the meeting was held). But hey, at least they are honest enough to admit to such intolerant & violent views (in fact quite proud to by the looks of it)... admit to what their islamic doctrine actually teaches & subsequently what they actually believe... & will act upon (it would seem... if the opportunity arises)!

    But as cited before (in another thread)... there is that 2013 Pew Research Centre poll... & what they found should be alarming to the majority (if not all) of rational/civil individuals. In particular "Beliefs about Sharia" (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/t...-about-sharia/). This is what millions of true muslims actually believe on i.e. support for sharia, death for apostasy, corporal punishment, stoning, suicide bombings etc... (also highlighted by the Clarion Project - https://www.clarionproject.org/facts...statistics.pdf.). "This poll is the single largest & most reliable survey on Muslim attitudes around the world. However, the Pew Research Centre did not survey the whole of the Muslim world. Muslims in countries including Saudi Arabia, Iran, India & China were not surveyed" (https://www.clarionproject.org/facts...statistics.pdf)... so with that in mind, the figures would be much higher (which should be extremely alarming for anyone... because the figures are in the millions within the above study - millions, with what many would call "extremist" views i.e. support for suicide bombings = "136 million"). According to their own numbers, Pew numerically surveyed only 67 percent of the Muslim world (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/05/09/t...s-society-faq/).

    But hey, if one wants to visit their local mosque & run by the "Imam" (leader) the apparent (massive) disparity between the above (evidence) & the islam apologist's take on the "religion of peace"... go right ahead... knock yourself out. I have numerous times (albeit on line)... but have seriously thought of going to one of the big mosques in my part of the world to have a serious/sincere discussion on such... in person... on the (apparent) contradictions riddled throughout... because I'm seriously concerned... & sincere in knowing WHY (albeit, I would be mindful of their practice of "Taqiyya" on a "kafir"/infidel like me)!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  21. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Murdered or radicalised!
     
  22. Matt:

    Hmmm... No woman in a burqa or hijab or burkini has ever done me any harm. No man of the Muslim faith has ever threatened me or my family or shown me anything other than respect and friendship. On the other hand, men and women in suits have lied and deceived me. Men in suits lied to their electorates and led us into an illegal and disastrous war. Men in suits crashed the banks and financial markets and drained cash from the poorest to supplement their fortunes - and men and women in suits pay a great deal of money to kill some of the most vulnerable and threatened creatures on this planet in the name of 'sport'.

    I suggest we ban suits.
     
  23. efuller

    efuller MVP

    I've had people in suits treat me very nicely. Which is the point we should not extrapolate behavior based on what people look like or what they wear. Judge an individual's actions.

    Eric
     
  24. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

     
  25. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Mark:

    Once again that wasn't a rational response to my post now was it?

    Where did I mention anything pertaining to banning anything? Where did I mention about women in association with the "burqa or hijab or burkini"? Answer - nowhere!

    My post was in context of the quote from 'fishpod' pertaining to Dieter seeking answers from a local mosque (at your suggestion I believe)... hence the associated dialogue within the quote box followed by my response. Get it? This is how forums of this nature (should) normally work (albeit, evidently some don't follow such reasoning). My response was to highlight that the answers one seeks with regard to what muslims believe can be found in public via their (muslim's) own words within public speeches (as highlighted in the two videos cited - & there's a lot more of such evidence) as well as in the likes of research polls of muslim communities (around the world) such as the "2013 Pew Research Centre poll" which was also cited (equating to the expressed views of millions of muslims). So please refrain from such (possible) straw man tactics on me.

    Now, if you have a problem with the cited material I have used to reveal the expressed views that muslims themselves have (verbally) made (i.e. videos) or have provided answers towards (i.e. 2013 Pew Research Centre poll)... then I suggest you go to your local mosque & speak to the "Imam" to ask why the evident contradictions; why the massive disparity between the cited views (above) & that of the muslim apologists; why the frequent (i.e. daily news in my neck of the woods) of social unrest, intolerance, hate speeches &/or violence from this so-called "religion of peace"... a "religion of peace" of which my state government (let alone federal government) is spending millions on trying to address. These are good questions to ask. As stated, I have asked these questions with many muslims (on-line & in person) & have got very little rational (truthful) response back... & as stated, I also have thought about going to speak to a muslim leader (who should know their own religion better than most) in person to discuss about such concerning issues.

    Well thank you for your anecdotal opinion Mark. I also don't believe I have been threatened by a muslim (in person) either... & are we (both) to then conclude that threats, intolerance, bigotry etc. doesn't stem from this group - despite their expressed intentions (backed by islamic doctrine) on such matters with us "kafirs" (infidels)? Evidently millions have had a different experience than you... & there's been a @!#$ load of evidence to support it!

    Oh, oh... OK Mark, I think I know where your coming from now... your position is getting clearer it would seem (i.e. influenced as a result of this issue you have had, per chance). But hey - I agree (resonate) with your above concerns (we both have interests within the illuminate, secret societies, supposed conspiracy related topics & the injustices to humanity such have been linked with). Men (& women) of all walks of life are capable of atrocities against humanity... despite the clothing ("suits") they wear.

    I have also highlighted via forwarding evidence of individuals within an evident barbaric & archaic ideology - islam... promoting/condoning intolerance, hate, violence, bigotry... supported by islam's religious doctrine (quran, hadiths & sunnah)... & then having the "intolerance, hate, violence, bigotry" carried out in sentiments, actions & various crimes in various regions of the world. I'm sure you'll agree that the above traits (i.e. "intolerance, hate, violence, bigotry") supposedly 'ordained' by a supposed 'higher being' (i.e. an 'ordained' "prophet" &/or a 'god') is a very influential & subsequent dangerous scenario indeed... just as much so (if not more) than other motivating factors such as greed & power (the usual motivating factors of the "suit" brigade).

    Yes, I agree (again)... hence why I'm vegetarian. I am also passionate on this issue & been outspoken on the issue of killing animals in the name of 'sport'... let alone for human consumption (as well as the prior treatment & living conditions of these animals we choose to consume to appease our taste buds).

    Hence we don't need to ban "suits"... we need to address the underlying causes, we need to 1/ address vile, barbaric, debasing ideologies (whatever shape, form, creed, ethnicity it comes from). We need to 2/ address the self-esteem of humanity. We need to 3/ rebuild the health of humanity. Addressing these three areas I believe will go a long way to making this world a better place to co-inhabit i.e. it should reduce the amount of killing on this planet... not only to humans... but also to animals... which not only is conducive to the health (physical & psychological) of humanity (& of course animals) but also to the health of the planet.

    You asked me in a previous thread:
    I didn't respond (had a birthday, of which I'll be lucky to see another at the rate I'm going)... but I suppose the above paragraph (i.e. three points) would be my answer. As also stated in that thread... the longer I live, the more I resonate with the following...

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  26. The thing I liked best about John Lennon was his sense of humour. Especially when ironic.
     
  27. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Yes, I also Mark (oh the irony - right? ;)). I would imagine this world can do with John's sense of humour & wit in today's politico-social climate... riddled with what has become the cancerous trending of political correctness. I'm assuming John Lennon wouldn't stand for this P.C B.S (usually pushed by the left-wing loonies), stifling any objective dialogue/assessment on multicultural/religious topics... serious topics to (objectively) assess for the harmony of society. Heaven forbid should society tolerate diversity of opinion & some objective assessment from someone of my standing. It appears certain races, skin colours, gender persuasions, religious groups (primarily one i.e. islam) are immune of public critique, whilst at the same time individuals from these groups exercising their apparent right to hurl defamatory (intent to intimidate) phrases such as racists, bigot, islamophobe etc... at anyone that doesn't succumb to their way of thinking, or are not of their ilk.

    There was a good article I read discussing these issues. Written by Rita Panahi (Herald Sun) - "a woman of colour, Middle Eastern refugee, atheist, single mother" ("American-born Persian Australian" female)... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...51e533357604d63bb299fb1a7#load-story-comments ...

     
  28. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    You could replace 'islam' with 'zionism' .......... and 'islamophobe' with 'anti-semite'
     
  29. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    No, I wouldn't replace anything I have said (or have quoted)... one could include another factor if they wished... & in the context of your above point, one could include Judaism is association with anti-Semitism ("Zionism" isn't appropriate within the "religious group" context i.e. it's a nationalist political movement).
     
  30. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    You miss my point; the same applies to Zionism in regard to, "objective assessment", "immune of public critique", and "individuals from these groups exercising their apparent right to hurl defamatory (intent to intimidate) phrases ... at anyone that doesn't succumb to their way of thinking".
    Any criticism of Zionism is met with being labelled an "anti-Semite" (the modern use of the term not the original);.... see universities in USA and UK and the comedy within the British Labour Party at the moment as examples
     
  31. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    No Mark, I didn't miss your point. As stated, I wanted to clarify the more appropriate term within the context & example you used (that being a religious group). The example you used, "islam" is a religious group (pertaining to islam); "Zionism" isn't a religious group (it's a nationalist political movement associated with Judaism). Hence why I stated the term "Judaism" was more appropriate to "Zionism" in the context of your quote. But hey, putting aside sticking within the context of examples/terms used; if you want to include "Zionism", that's fine. We can both start a big long list whereby we can include a vast array of overly-sensitive groups (intolerant to "public critique") i.e. Muslim Student Association ("see universities in USA"), Muslim Brotherhood etc... But I just think that would be a waste of our time :rolleyes: ...

    Or we can just act out your avatar :D ...

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  32. Hey Matt - ok so you have a visceral fear and hatred of muslims and the islamic faith generally. If they are as you suggest - brainwashed, intolerant of non-believers and dedicated to barbaric customs - what do you propose doing? If they can't be 're-educated' to embrace your philosophy, should they all be killed? You obviously have given this a great deal of thought - what's your solution?
     
  33. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Hey Mark - due to your inability to comprehend the nature of this discussion (once again!) I am not going to respond/answer any further of the above bull****. I really did think you were more intelligent than that. You have provided evidence yourself (via the above) that you are not... whilst the muslim material (cited video of voiced beliefs & intentions from muslims, as well as a research poll on their answered beliefs) have provided evidence of the intolerance, violence, bigotry within islam. They weren't my words; they weren't my answers... I have just exposed them. Got it? If you have a problem with their words/sentiments expressed & the beliefs/views they answered - then speak to them yourself... as stated quite clearly before...

    Keep your fear & hate mongering accusations to yourself! (ironic really - you obviously didn't get the point of post #27 either)
     
  34. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    In fairness to all, and for a (polemic) albeit neutral opinion try 'God Is Not Great' by Christopher Hitchens. As he remarks, it is ironic that no atheist or agnostic, let alone pantheist, has ever threatened a believer in the 'great' religions with excruciating death and torture, and yet he has received such threats from the faithful of all these religions (they've had plenty of practice over the years). I would add that it is even more ironic since according to these people, he is condemned to torment in everlasting hellfire when he shuffles off this mortal coil, so why don't they just wait?

    Bill
     
  35. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Good point Bill... I also have thought of your last sentence i.e. if us "kefirs"/infidels are going to "everlasting hellfire"... then wait... leave us alone... to face our doom later.

    Now I was aware of the following meme re.: Christopher Hitchens... being it's related to the topic, hence I'll post it...

    [​IMG]
     
  36. Matt:

    Your posts are by far the most lengthy and convoluted of all Arena contributors bar none yet I still haven't a clue what your argument is most of the time. I wonder if you know yourself? Contradiction is always a confusing companion..

    Best
    Mark
     
  37. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Mark:

    Thanks for informing me of your opinion... & subsequently confirming my assessment in the post you quoted.

    Good bye.

    (I just hope this wasn't too "lengthy and convoluted" for you... if so, the following may help...)

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  38. I wasn't being facetious, Matt - I genuinely don't understand what position you're taking on this matter. You're clearly passionate and have an opinion, but you're not translating it into something I can follow, sorry.
     
  39. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

     
  40. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    Yes Matt, I have been aware of that for at least 40 years
    Your post has only noted the Islamic faith; your accusations can easily be applied to other faith related groups

    Yes but I was noting that the anti-Semitism label is used by Jewish and Christian Zionists to defame individuals, student and political groups who query / denounce actions by Zionists (note, not Judaism).

    Again you're being selective; one-eyed; and you get angsty when other members query / react to your posts? The original post concerned one particular incident, I wasn't extrapolating to criticise the French in general or defend Islam.

    Has the thread so-far been "a waste of time"?
     
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