Dr Podiatrist?

Hello David,

I think you are "clutching at straws a bit here" to challenge Julian's example of Dr Perlan - though I do not discount the possbility that he may be a wonderful Podiatrist I highly doubt that your argument is one that would have lead the public making the assumption that he was a Doctor in comparison to Julian who I gather they had only just met or came into contact with. Though I am unaware of Julian's Podiatric skills or clinical expertise I would like to think that his are not entirley different from Dr Perlman's - though I cannot be sure - and would think that it could hardly been the basis that a judgment be made if they were yet to be treated by Julian and accordingly had only formed their opinion of Julian on his clinic environment, business card or clinic/yellow pages signage.

I also query the grounds that you assume the public's has changed is oinion or relevance to the use of the honorary title.

Also if you/we have never adotped the title and subsequently tested your theory then on what grounds do you base your assumptions or opinions regarding the public's reaction?

TJ.

 

Hi David,

I won't drone on about your 2nd point, as regards the public's scepticism that any tom dick or harry can self-entitle themselves "Doctor". We differ and each have our opinions.

As to the first point about Phil, well certainly he was an excellent clinician, experienced and generally respected (although I did get some of his patients who left him because apparently he had a sense of humour that did not impress at least some of them...we all have some that dislike us, me too!).

What I perhaps did not explain enough, was that People who met you at Cocktail parties, University, Cafe's etc, or, a Nurse at a Nursing Home, or Hospital I worked at here on the gold coast, would invariably say something like:

"..Oh you're a Podiatrist, my mother has her corns done every month by one! I have been meaning to have my hammer toe looked at, should I see that fellow in the Yellow Pages who is a FOOT DOCTOR ?"

This happened for the last 6 years, and by people who didn't know Phil, hadn't met him, didn't know if he had two heads or 1000 cats living there. The distinction was that even people who hadn't heard of his reputation considered him a step above, because he was a Doctor, and I wasn't. These were people who did not know me or Phil, or our reputations.
Phil was more experienced, and had a US education, and I did not at all feel aggrieved that he legally used "Dr" and I didn't, some call me "Dr" anyway.

There are Podiatrists on the coast here, who were probably as experienced, had a slicker Practice etc, but in the publics mind, a Podiatrist is not the same as a Foot Doctor.

Now I am not saying that ALL gold coasters had this view, but after 6 years of being informed on many many occasions that Podiatrists are the corns and nails guys, but the "Foot Doctor" is the specialist for complex problems, you get a message.

Public perception AND nomenclature is vital, not so much amongst those who already know our scope of practice but amongst the uninformed.

We changed from Chiropodists 30+ years ago, but still get called it ! We can bang away at public education / foot heath weeks /patient education etc for the next 30+ years, but there will ALWAYS be a perception that we are the corns and nails guys.

We still need those things, but we also need something else....adopting "Dr" is in my myopic view, a way of informing the public that we are more than primary care people. It costs very little, and only academic snobbery is holding us back.

I have given a direct comparison between one pod who was a "Doctor" and one who wasn't a "Doctor", , the people neither knew me, or Phil, but there is a distinction amongst many of the public, and it isn't based on reputation (alone), its based on advertising as a doctor

Have a great weekend, and thanks for giving me an opportunity to respond.

:drinks

 

Fair enough Paul! But whether it gets you anywhere or whether you are venting your frustrations or not it seems you are leaning one way (as I have not seen to many comments from you on the "Pro's"). You are just not prepared to hang your hat on where you stand. I appreciate and respect your reasons why as I hope you do mine.

I also hope you "DO" get your way and the laws and education changes to better reflect what Podiatrists do - 3 Cheers to that one!

Yes - my compliments on a great initiative for continued education and the quality of the topics and speakers you have as well as the exposure it offers Podiatry to other professions - very enterprising and something that seems to have kicked off nicely for a few clever entrepenuers starting similar enterprises in NSW (Keystone etc.) since the compulsory education and accredition was enforced. Well done - should be more of it. By the way - yes got the link to your website via the "contact us" email address you have listed on the bootom of the page "education@thefootspot.com.au" (I think it read) Along with this and the title of the "FOOT SPOT" Portal 'hats off" to clever marketing and a link to your Practice which bears almost the identical name. So not that hard to find really!

Certainly will consider taking up your offer - thanks.

I agree 100% the name does reflect what we and many other Podiatrists do and I share your personal opinion on that and congratualte you on its use and encarouage many other practices to do so also - just as I and many others equally feel the word Doctor does the same and in Victoria is

As with the argument by many posters in this forum that the use of the "Dr" title could be damaging to our perception amongst other health professions (especially Medical Pratitioners) the question I ask is whether your decision to use of the words "Medical Clinic" has attracted any negative critisism's. Just curious - as in some way this is slightly relevant to this debate.

Not exactly sure how the word MEDICAL promotes the word Podiatry any differenty to the word "Doctor" but anyhow! Interestingly, the guidelines in Victoria ensure the word "PODIATRY" must always be used when using the "Dr" title without any association permitted with the word "Medical practice or practitioner".

Maybe there is some sort of 'loophole" your lawyer has found. Not unlike the one you have referred to a couple of times regarding the ability for Victorian Podiatrists to us the "Dr" Title.

In any case I commend you for taking this step and I am sure the title is befitting of your services and skills as I feel it would for most Podiatrists regualry perfoming complex treaments and invasive surgical procedures in a proper clinical environment.

No arguments from me about listing your actual achievements and involvments - absolutely all for it.

You should be proud - judging by what I read your achievements both pesonally and professionally are significant. I would have been happy to have that written or said about me also - though, assuming it is your website and business that the statement has been posted on, I am not sure I would have endorsed a comment which at the end of the day is subective and is essentially stating you alone are "Podiatry's benchmark" with my photo next to it. Maybe adding or including the author who made this statement or quote would be a suggestion. Just a thought that is all.

Not to continue to harp on this issue but to clarify, my last point was merely to suggest that it is interesting that you have chosen to endorse the statement made by an unkown author on your website that "you are the benchmark of Podiatry" which is obvisouly an arguable claim, as there are no measures I am aware of that determines such a standard as to who is actually the benchmark in our profession. Given you had raised the issue of the correct application of Hylton's title it was obviously convenient to use him as an example as one of many Podiatrists throughout the world who could arguably be seen as the 'benchmark' if there was such a "TITLE". I am not querying or questioning Hylton's opinon of you or your professoinal relationship or your graciousness towards Podiatry and your profession in any way as you have interpreted - apologies for the confusion - but as I read my post it seemed to make sense.

I will leave this with you - we are clearly digressing from the relevance of this forum now (for which I take responsibility) and we are probably boring everyone to death.

Good luck with completing your PhD by the way!

Have a good weekend - go the MELBOURNE STORM!!!!!!

TJ.

 

Well explained and an excellent example that you have put forward which clearly demonstrates the exact and main reason most of us in favour would choose to adopt the honorary title

Thanks Julian.

 

Thanks T.J.

It was as close to a real comparison as I can offer. I know its anecdotal, and very limited in scope, but since we've never been titled "dr" , like yourself , any negative feedback or criticism internally or externally, is just hypothetical.

This is not meant to be offensive, or directed at any one person here, but the negative arguments are very much conjecture and sensationalized..., EVERYone will do it, the title will become meaningless, we don't deserve it, only PhD's should have it......almost the collapse of society itself !

Still, if the poll is anything to go by (very debatable since the mods had to 'ahem' modify some false voting), the naysayers will get their way and the profession will continue to do things "the way they've always been done" and expect different results....perhaps its our predominantly British heritage as a profession, that we like tradition ?

Just my ramblings...

have a great weekend....

 

Hi Julian,

The British Society for Chiropodists and Podiatrists (SOCAP) may be traditional in some ways, but also are very innovative in others.

One way that the SOCAP recognises long-standing good work by Podiatrists is to confer a Fellowship to them. From what I understand, being a Fellow of SOCAP is very prestigious and is thought of highly. It is a reward conferred by a panel of peers.

Perhaps this could be one reward for sustained and substantial good deeds for practitioners within the Australian profession?


Adam

 

Yes. I suspect we would never had need to have started this thread if we had a stronger American culture in Australian podiatry...c'est la vie.

Like the first Republican referendum that was doomed to fail, I feel this just might be a discussion that is being had too soon for some. Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull anyone?


It would be nice to archive this thread in a time capsule to be opened again in 15 years. I suspect different attitudes will be developed once the majority of profession is prescribing drugs, our courses are all attached to medical schools, and there are podiatric surgery departments and training programs in mainstream public hospitals.

Its nice to dream...

LL

 

Dear Members,

Please find below abstracts of three articles from the field of psychology:

Andrew

 

A fair call Adam - and worth consideration.

I have had conversations recently with a good friend of mine who is an Obstetrician (I hope I spelt that right) and it was interesting hearing his perspecitve on how the medicos subsequenty have the college and fellow system which ultimately determines the title to which they ultimately bestow.

Our profesion could consider some sort of stepping stone process.

A constructive contribution.

Many thanks.

TJ

PS. Can anyone tell me how to activate spell check on the Arena - Boy would that save some time!

 

Hi Adam,

Yes I totally agree.

For example, the Podiatric Surgeons in the UK are very mainstream, operating in the public system alongside the Orthopods. In this way, they leave us (Australians, not Australian Pod Surgeons) behind, as our Surgical specialists are mainly private. What a great advertisement of the profession, being accepted into the public system and referred to a Pod Surgeon , as against an Orthpod.....I cannot think of a better way in which the public are shown that Pods are NOT a lesser class of practitioner than 'proper' Medico's.

My point was, made probably out of some frustration, that our Australian Podiatry identity is still very closely linked to the traditional "Chiropody" that was practised into the 1970's. Not that there is anything to be ashamed of or hide from, but here in 2008, we are still perceived as nails and corn guys. Our skill base and knowledge has grown, we've seen our Surgical guys become generally accepted , we are on the verge of being a prescribed profession (like Medico's and Dentists) ,we get 4 year degrees now, we all perform minor surgical procedures, we consult elite sports teams and the Olympics etc etc...but with all of our Foot Heath Weeks, and the occasional Pod showing up on morning TV talking about shoes....a large percentage of the population STILL views us as little more than the people that treat 'old folks'.

Advertising has worked to a small degree, as has patient education and Foot Health weeks, Radio spots and TV appearances etc, but they seem to be very small steps (and expensive) in infiltrating the public perception of how much MORE we do than corns and nails. So, either we keep banging away with educational campaigns, or all do PhD's or think of another way to make a BIG step forward in the public's eyes.

Apart from adopting "dr", does anyone have any other ideas (preferably that won't cost 700 Billion dollars ).....

Oh I almost forgot, I used to work in the UK and Ireland, and maintain my registration with the HPC.....Rule Britannia..la la lalala la la la la.......la!


Please put forth your ideas....

Have a great weekend.
:drinks

 

You have such great way with words Julian - I must say you bring a smile to my face and make being part of this forum very entertaining!
Keep up the good work!


:drinks
TJ

 

You may well be right LL - you may well be right!!! But 15 years - how sad :craig:

Here's to Malcolm Turnbull :drinks



TJ

 

Toe Jam/DaFlip or who ever you are, your comments never fail to amuse. Feel free to PM me so we can clarify a few misguided comments you have made though - i'd like to set the record straight on a few things!!!

Oh and we are nothing like or have nothing to do with that other education company you mentioned. Please take up my offer, after all - its FREE!

 

Hi Paul,

I know its not my fight, but anonymity in and of itself on this or any forum is not a transgression of any rules or ethics.

As a part of my Masters degree we have student reps (rather than confront Prof's directly) and discussion boards where an anonymous 'button' can be enabled to discuss and debate ideas. In fact, it is encouraged, as different cultures / genders communicate in different formats. Better, in my view to encourage anonymity IF it encourages an open debate.

You and I, we don't mind putting our names forth, and I appreciate and respect your candour and transparency, even if we disagree, we clearly respect each others opinions and cogent arguments.

Perhaps ToeJam is different and prefers his/her/(its...sorry TJ) anonymity?

Your views...

:drinks

 

Thanks Paul,

I may just do that Paul - again thanks for the invite - I am glad to be of amusement :dizzy::dizzy:


Regards


:drinks
TJ (Da Flip)

PS. I sense some cynicism in your reply towards that 'other company'? Hmmmm.

 

Oh Admin - you spoil sport!!

We were having some fun - all be it not fair on DaFlip - who ever that may be - so a fair call for his/her sake.:empathy:


Incidentally just curious as to those mannerisms to which you refer?::boxing:

Well done and Good work!
:drinks
TJ

 

Phew - thanks Julian,:good:

Your support is appreciated - and I agree - I think more people will be inclined to contribute, join and become constructively involved in the fantastic forum that is Podiatry Arena if they are not pressured to forsake their anonymity and their privacy is respected and protected. I am sure as an advertiser and businessman himself Paul would realise that.

Having recently joined the Arena I noticed quite a few people had chosen to assume an alias - and thought nothing of the fact as I thought this was very common in many forums like this one. On a positive note I felt that it would offer the freedom to speak candidly and openly.

I can appreciate where Paul is coming from however and understand his frustration, however I have my reasons - sorry!

One of these in particular is based on past experiences and to prevent any potential prejudice - others are for secruity reasons as via the internet I have found the world can be very, very, very small in deed - as Paul may have recently found out himself.

If the adminstrators ultimately decide it is their preference for forum contributors to disclose their identity I will sadly withdraw from this forum.

Anyway - I quite like the comic super hero feeling of being unknown - quite fun (call me Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent if you like!!):

I must be getting tired.:dizzy::dizzy:

 

Hi TJ,

Don't mention it!

I have a friend who is a Professor of Information systems (computer geek!) the more he knows about the internet, the more defensive and private he has become online.

Another friend is considered a 'hacker' and the way he can make a PC 'sing' is frightening.

Given another opportunity, I would definitely have joined as a pseudonym rather than my christian name. I have tried to adjust my name but can't seem to do it, and by now my 'style' is known anyway.

I studied in WA (A very conservative state) under Prof Bryant and many of the lecturers who have successfully joined Podiatry to Medicine and Dentistry at UWA as undergrads. UWA correctly exploits the elitism of connecting Podiatry (or Podiatric Medicine) as part of the Medical / Surgical / Dental Faculties. NO ONE has criticised our gains in this area, yet still , somehow, we are not internally or externally viewed as 'equals'.

ToeSlayer (Sid) was another Lecturer/colleague who knows me, and I hope I can count him as a friend as well.

Alan Bryant is a clever and successful Podiatrist , I would love to hear his views on this topic....? If He said to drop the "Dr" aspirations I wouldn't argue at all......

 

Absolutely not - they are a great bunch of blokes and they do a great job providing excellent speakers.

I have no issues with anonymity Julian and I believe it is everyone's right whether or not they weigh into a debate with their real name - just cheapens the argument when the posts become about "someone" rather than about "something" don't you think?

My comments about DaFlip were in jest - I was making a point that the ability to hide behind names whilst making comment is alive and well!

It would seem that Hyltons post touched a raw nerve with some people on these Boards - that's excellent because that's what the forum is designed to do - stimulate discussion. Personally I think Hylton's post made a good deal of sense and the concept of bulk naming rights leading to a lack of public understanding is a problem at the top of the issues list for this debate. More importantly it may lead to the detriment of the Podiatric community rather than its benefit.

I think the new programs at UWA are a step in the right direction for the argument here. That is a prime example of how legislation and education have both changed to benefit the profession in that state as a whole. I am not saying that it is without its issues, I am sure there are hurdles everywhere, however in my opinion the profession in WA has taken this down the right pathway - and for the most part it is working. We should be asking ourselves why and trying to replicate it.

More highly trained Podiatrists leads to more research, more research leads to more funding and awareness, more funding and awareness leads to better public perception.

Dr Josh Burns recently stated at a meeting in Sydney that PODIATRY needs MORE high profile people. PODIATRISTS need to strive for more awards. Why don't we see Podiatrists winning Nobel Peace Prizes? Why don't we see them fronting the nightly news with research breakthroughs? Dr Burns makes a great deal of sense on this topic - its not because Podiatry is not interesting or appealing - its because we don't have the right attitude towards it, and those that do try get cut down by their own kind due to "tall poppy" syndrome. Lets face it some of our brightest sparks leave the Podiatry profession entirely to become academics in other fields or to take up other professional vocations - why?

Maybe we need to look no further than this thread to see how our own kind react to each other and their opinions. Maybe we don't need to stretch our legs to far to see that Podiatrists (not unlike other professions mind you) spend more time beating on their own kind than helping them?

The profession would be a much better place if we recognized attributes, placed people on podiums and took some pride in some of the absolutely brilliant work we do. Whether that is fixing a simple ingrown toenail to pumping out randomized controlled trials for heel pain.

How about instead of criticizing the blokes trying to do some good we all get out there and help them along? Maybe that's the way forward from here - because lets face it - at the end of the day we all want the same thing don't we?

Oh well - that's my 2 cents worth for this thread - I cant add anything else to the debate.

I look forward to TOE JAMS application to PORTAL, where we don't take any notice of the letters before or after your name!

 

Hi Paul,
In reference to the above, do we have ANY evidence of this? Secondly, would you agree that there is already a 'lack of public understanding" as regards our scope of practice ?

I agree that the UWA model, is a big step in the right direction, and as you say we must support our brightest stars....

I was just checking out the UWA web page for PostGrad degrees:

http://www.meddent.uwa.edu.au/index.cfm?objectID=4FCDE6D9-96BA-5DAE-BF1307E87A91C41D


Perhaps there is an analogy to the 'glass ceiling' that women and minorities face, in that Pod's have to get Doctorates, just to be considered 'equals' with our Bachelor degreed Medical / Dental ( and Physio?) colleagues ?
But, does there need to be...?!

I hope you will stay and continue to add to the discussion ?:deadhorse:

Enjoy your weekend..

 

Thanks for the clarification - I just would not have wanted anyone to read that post and think you were "beating up on your own kind" when that was not the case as misinterpretation can be unfortunate.

A bit contradictory - on one hand you say you have no issues - on the other you believe it cheapens an argument. I hope you appreciate Paul that the recent, long and drawn out (sorry everyone) dialogue is nothing personal and purely driven out of response to your first ever correspondence/reply to my comments to a thread involving Hylton and myself (that he himself has stated he wishes he had worded differently had he better understood the sensitivity of the topic - and for which I apologized for any offence). This has been subsequently resolved. You decided to have a 'crack' at my decision to be anonymous which opened yourself up to my reply.

I simply made the point of demonstrating that one's choice to make themselves be known does come with a risk of public scrutiny (not just within a professon) which in certain cases can be good and others not-so-good. I have not critiscsims of anyone choosing to make themselves known that is their choice and I respect that. Should my desire not to be forthcoming with my identity restrict/exclude me from participating in such forums -that is not for me to say. In this forum I chose not to expose myself to the risk of being known - just as I choose not to be on programs like Facebook and myspace - I have my reasons.

Incidentally does the FOOT PORTAL allow for anonymous participation?

Personally I don't think I raised anything that you should be upset by and I hope you don't think I was 'beating you up' just making a point so you could possibly better understand the reasons for one choosing to be anonymous - seeings you brought it up.

Hylton's post touched a raw nerve not necessarily for what he wrote but simply the 'way it was written'. The subsequent reply's were made on that basis and since further explanation I assume all parties understand where each other was coming from, respect each other's point of view and have moved on with no-hard-feelings!

No arguments from me there! 3 Cheers on that one - though not exactly sure why 'awards' are that important. Thought they are nice - personally I don't have an overwhelming desire to be awarded - but that is just me. If others are inclined to be driven harder and aspire to greater heights via an award system then fantastic.

Not sure about that one! Sadly, the foot is hardly considered a glamorous part of the anatomy or 'sexy' topic of conversation or news. I disagree in the fact that I think we do have the right people 'doing it' but they just need more support and encouragment.

I agree we do suffer from Tall Poppy Syndrome - maybe a by-product of being a young and small proffession. But it can work both ways whereby those 'tall poppies' can be seen as elitist and superior also - that in itself is where we need to be careful of ensuring that as individuals we are not out there making claims of being the 'best-of-the-best'. All good and well for those to list their achievements and stake their claims for what they do - but when someone publicly states they are better than everyone else then in my opinion they expose themselves for others to take issue.

You might be right - but I would hope you aren't taking the moral high ground and suggesting you have not been an active participant also. Personally I think that overall this debate has been a very healthy one where most willing to acknowledge if and where comments have been misplaced or offensive - nothing wrong with that.

.

Agreed. Maybe an idea would be for the profession to develop a more substantial, regular or annual award recognition system for members of our profession who have made major contributions and inlcudes a variety of categories. Worth thinking about.

This sounds a bit defensive Paul - I cannot find any reference in this forum where anyone is being criticizied for 'trying to do some good'. If anything I must say the opposite. Personally I admire your achievements and the way you represent the profession on virtually all fronts. I have enjoyed your input, contributions, feedback and discussion.

So onwards and forwards we go!

Best wishes and good luck with the Foot Spot Portal! See you there some day - but in all probability you won't know when that might be. Who knows I may already be there even!!!

Keep up the good work!
:drinks
TJ
PS. Please excuse my IT ignorance I have not quite worked out this PM business you mentioned if/when I do then for everyone's sake if you feel it is necessary we can take this conversation there. I am happy to move on however!

 

Good morning Julian,

I would agree - but admittedly it has been getting better, all-be-it slowly, as courses improve and student exposure to high quality practitioners, professional development and clinic environments improve.

Thanks for this useful link.:good:

I hope so to!
:drinks
Cheers!
TJ

 

It now remains to be seen what will happen with the UWA podiatry course, after all the development to date by AsPro Bryant el at.

The Higher Education supplement in The Australian, and other sections of the media have been reporting considerably about the fact that UWA (like Melbourne Uni and others), are moving towards a very small selection of undergraduate degrees in key areas (health, education, science, arts etc).

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24392390-12332,00.html

All professional degrees are proposed to be at either Masters or Doctorate level.

This is not new (ie Macquarie, Latrobe), but it appears to be the beginning of the end of undergraduate level podiatry qualifications.

Before too long I suspect that we will have a hybrid of the US model whereby podiatry is taught as a Masters, leading into a Doctorate.

Parity with the USA podiatry qualification may be closer than we think if these education reforms gather pace around the nation.

Maybe the "Dr Podiatrist" will be resolved either way by these reforms.

LL

 

Thanks LL,

Then they'll probably say that these professional/vocational doctorates aren't "real" doctorates :craig:

Then they'll say the title "Dr" is devalued as we ALL have one :bang:.....shall I go on?

Whatever happens the Physio's and some Nurses will beat us to it.
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/04/02/say-hello-to-dr-nurse/?mod=WSJBlog
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3969/is_200204/ai_n9068990/pg_11?tag=artBody;col1



Cheers LL.

 

If the students completing the university programs are educated to the level considered to be that of a Masters degree then those students can use & advertise that level of qualification. Likewise if students completing a university program are educated to the level considered to be that of a Doctorate and they are awarded that title then they are Doctors and are entitled to use it. There is a world of difference between earniing a title by putting in the effort & completing the requirements of the award you are entitled to as opposed to annointing oneself (or a profession) with that title when you haven't done the work that would normally be required to use such a title.

If all the health professions (or even some) complete a course of study determined to be comensurate with the awarding of the title Doctor then all those professions can use it. That is not what devalues the title, what devalues the title is a whole lot of people and / or professions who use the title without having earnt it. There's a big difference there

 

Posafilin

Let not kid ourselves here. There is only one reason for moving to "grad school" programs. MONEY.

Full-time, a Masters' degree is typically 1.5 -2yrs. A coursework doctorate, depending on credits, will be a further 2.5yrs or so.

Like graduate medical degrees now, I doubt that there will be any notice taken to the initial ungergraduate degree. Possibly an entrance exam.

So, now we graduate podiatrists with 4 years of education coming out with a Masters/Doctorate in Podiatry compared to the current situation.

The box has been ticked on Dr title, but what has changed?

We have come full circle, doubled the HECS debt, but solved the Dr issue. I would rather see the status quo and an aggressive/challenging postgraduate Fellowship in Podiatric Medicine or Surgery.

Who wins? The universities...and maybe the profession?

LL

 

Hi All,

WOW!!! It’s great to see that the topic has generated so much discussion. I think it’s just great.

I have been following this thread since its inception and have seen an organised evolution in both sides of the dialogue.

It seems that the vast majority of posts against the use of the title revolve around not being deserving of the title because we haven't earned it through a PhD. And by the same token those of us who support its use argue that we do deserve it regardless of whether we have a PhD or not.

IMO I believe that there are two distinct groups of professionals who use the title.

1. Health Professionals
2. Academics

Doctors, Dentists, Vets, and others use the title because they believe they have earned that honour through delivering life saving and changing work to their patients.
The truth of the matter is that the title "Doctor" is synonymous with this type of work. And that fact that Medical practitioners do the above results in NIL obstruction when it comes to them using the title from within or outside of their profession even though the title was originally used by PhD holders exclusively.
Nothing is going to change that now! The title Dr. is used by health practitioners just as readily as it is used by PhD holders.

Based upon this premise it can be argued that PODIATRISTS, like Medical Practitioners, SAVE AND CHANGE the lives of their patients and therefore have just as much right to use the title based upon the "health professional" banner of those who use it.

To illustrate the impact PODIATRISTS have on their patients i have included some stats:

1. Mortality rate within 1 month following amputation: 10%

2. Median life expectancy following amputation: 22 months

3. of all that undergo lower limb amputation: 28%-49% die within 3 years.

4. Those over the age of 80, median survival for 50% of those who have
undergone amputation: 19 months

5. Biggest risk factor for foot ulceration: PERIPHERAL NEUROPATHY, FOOT DEFORMITY, AND MINOR TRAUMA (All things that we either screen for and/or treat)
(Ogrin, R. Australasian Journal of Podiatric Medicine, 2003: Vol 37, No.4 : 101-109)

6. 1999-00 Lower limb ulceration resulted in 1859 hospital admissions

7. 1999-00: 3404 amputations resulting in a 27.5 day hospital stay on average.

8. 50% OF AMPUTATIONS WITHIN DIABETIC POPULATION COULD BE PREVENTED (THUS SAVING HUNDREDS OF LIVES) SIMPLY BY REDUCING RISK FACTORS AND IMPROVING FOOT CARE.
(2006 Uni Sa Podiatry lecture notes)

This does not include the lives saved through identification and diagnosis of certain cancers of the lower limb. Nor does it include the significant impact on quality of life we have on our patients through the treatment of arthritis, musculoskeletal problems, nail conditions etc and the list goes on and on.......

PODIATRISTS SAVE LIVES!!! If this does not put us in the same category as "health professionals" who use the title I don't know what will. And because it does, then IMO I believe we have every right to use the title PhD or no PhD.


The title Dr for those who have PhDs has been conferred in recognition of your scholarly contributions to the body knowledge that exists. Not all PhD holders fall under the category of "health Professional" and therefore do not use it in that context.

Those of us who DO NOT have PhDs are BY NO MEANS using it under these pretences, we use it because the FACTS above clearly show that we deserve to use it in the same capacity as Medical Practitioners, Dentists, Vets, etc who use it without PhDs.

Just my 2 cents!!!

Keep up the great posts,

Cheers,
Dr. Saleh (Podiatrist)

 

My post does not include some of the exact similarities between Podiatrists and Med Practitioners pointed out in the previous Post by Julian!!!!!!!!

BTW, Thank you for that post Julian.

Cheers

 

I haven't put in my 2 cents for a while, but pleased to see my baby (the thread I began) has been of such popular debate. And an important one at thet.

I have been thinking and wonder how those chiros, dentists, vets, osteos etc with PhD's felt when all members of their profession adopted the Dr title.
I wonder if there was such a debate as us podiatrists are having??

 

... and to whom you go to when you have a broken leg, or the flu, or a lump in the armpit ...

 

.................and a Podiatrists is someone you go to with a broken metatarsal, or an infected ingrown toe nail, or an ulcer, or Onychomycosis, or Plantar Fasciitis, or a lump on the sole of your foot, or just because you have really really painful feet...........

Or alternatively you could go to a Medical Practitioner and be referred straight back to a Podiatrist in most cases..................

Cheers,
Dr. Saleh (Podiatrist)

 

Exactly, we're not doctors
mark c

 

You're right, Mark. We aren't Medical Practitioners. We're Podiatrists who use the title Doctor. Exactly like a Dentists! They aren't medical Practitioners either, but use the title!

Cheers,
Dr Saleh (Podiatrist)

 

"Yet the vast majority of "Doctors" in the Health Professions haven't earned a Doctorate, how do you reconcile these two opposing facts ?

Either, you're saying that only PhD holders should use the title, and therefore most Medical / Dental practitioners should drop it...... or........certain professions' Bachelors are more "doctoral" than others ?

Care to explain the difference in your mind....

And so we go round again and again....."

As I stated in my previous posts Julian I don't believe it is right that anybody uses the title unless they have rightly earnt it irrespective of what part of the medical profession they come from....NO Bachelors degrees, or Masters degrees are doctoral.

Just because other health professionals have abused the title doesn't mean others should follow, nor does it make it right.

Would those who support using the title Dr be happy for medical practitioners to start caling themselves Podiatrists (after all a medical practitioner can do everything a podiatrist can), or nurse practiitoners who assess, diagnose & treat foot conditions to call themsleves Podiatrists?

 

Hi posalafin,
If all other "Medical" professionals who use the title dropped it i would be more than happy to stop using it. However, i doubt that will happen any time soon. Why? Because the title has become synonymous with "health professionals" and given that podiatrists are health professionals who save lives and do so much more i think we have every right to use it.
And no Podiatrists wouldn't be happy for a medical practitioner who calls him/herself a Podiatrist.........just as they'd be unhappy if we were calling ourselves Medical Practitioners!!! We are doing nothing of the sort. We are using an honorary title used by many. Nothing more.
Just my thoughts,
Dr. Saleh (Podiatrist)

 

And it could be reasonably argued that the real Doctors, i.e. those who have actually put in the required effort and met the standard to be awarded the title, are not happy with people who haven't self appointing themselves with the Doctor title. So what your really saying is its ok for you to take on a title just because you think you deserve it (no matter how obscure your reasons may be) but not ok in other circumstances ....interesting.

 

And since when did Doctor become an honorary title that any 'health practitioner' who thinks they are worthy can just start using? If this is the case then why would anybody actually do all that work to actually complete a Doctorate, may as well just do a Bachelors degree and call myself a Dr anyhow. Also I don't think that the title Doctor is synonymous with 'health practitioners' in general but with medical practitioners. Being somebody who likes to bet I'd put my next months salary on it that if you did a properly conducted survey the majority of the public would consider medical practitioners as doctors but not dentists, chiropractors, osteopaths, podiatrists, physiotherapists etc etc.