Foot Health Practitioner using Protected Title?

Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.

Hi guys, just need some advice.

There's a foot health practioner advertising around my area, but advertising that she does Podiatry/Chiropody treatments? I myself as a Podiatrist find this really frustrating that she is claiming that she performs this and also charges more than me. Can I report her for using those terms as it is not her expertise. It really frustrates me when we have done 3 years at university and covered all aspects of Diabetic care, and they are advertising that they treat Diabetics!

Thanks

 

Re: FOOT HEALTH PRACTIONER USING PROTECTED TITLE??

Well it's illegal that's not in doubt: The HCPC says-
"The titles below (podiatrist and Chiropodist) are protected by law. Anyone using one of these titles must be registered with the Health and Care Professions Council, or they may be subject to prosecution and a fine of up to £5,000."

In my view you have to decide if you want to focus on that negative or just get on with being the best you can be. Maybe they are unaware of the protected title law and it might be useful to let them know in a helpful way in order that they could then change how they describe themselves. Also it may be that the surgery has a Qualified podiatrist as the principle. I have a similar thing with a Chiroppracter along the road who also advertises as a chiropodist (he has done this for many years) but is not registered with the HCPC.

Regards Dave Smith

 

Re: FOOT HEALTH PRACTIONER USING PROTECTED TITLE??

So, just to clarify, even if they are advertising as an FHP, but saying they do Podiatry/Chiropody treatments, they are still breaking the HCPC regs?

 

Re: FOOT HEALTH PRACTIONER USING PROTECTED TITLE??

P.S this lady is advertising mobile, i'm also a mobile Podiatrist.

 

Re: FOOT HEALTH PRACTIONER USING PROTECTED TITLE??

Mobile or in clinic, unless they are registered with the HCPC then they should not use or imply in anyway that they are a chiropodist/podiatrist or are entitled to use the titles chiropodist or podiatrist.

Dave

 

Re: FOOT HEALTH PRACTIONER USING PROTECTED TITLE??

Thank's David, that's good to know. I'll ring her and see what response I get.

Regards

Kirsty

 

Hi
I posted a thread very similiar a couple of months back regarding a foot health practitioner advertising as a podiatrist on yell.com. I double checked the HPC register to check that the person concerned was not on the register and then emailed the HCPC. I was very impressed by the efficiency of the HCPC as they immediatly wrote to the person concerned and explained the protection of title etc and the possibility of a fine. The foot health practitioner very quickly changed her advertising.
I think we should all be clamping down on this in our local areas.
I personally would not approach the person concerned directly let the HCPC do it as we pay enough for our registration!

 

Might I suggest you review your charging then ??

If she is making a go of her practice so who's the mug ???

Charge more than her and advertise the fact of WHY !!!!

I did that when I started all those years ago....and I'm still here

NEVER EVER be a busy fool :bash:

You have worked and are working for your education and to run a profitable business and remember your time does not come free !!

Just my thoughts
cheers
D

 

Worked well in that case I agree but personally I wouldn't start with the risk of heavy handedness by the HCPC and maybe put someone out of business where a discreet wise word would do. (they are a real person with a real life just like you) And what goes around comes around my friend and maybe one day you will make a mistake and will be hoping that someone will give you the benefit of grace and not go straight to the HCPC. £76 is not much money to make a stand for is it?

Regards Dave

 

In terms of your fee structure, Dell is spot on. Set your charges at what is suitable and good for you and your business and personal aspirations, not what you feel maintains some differential of superiority just for the sake of your pride.

Regards Dave

 

What I charge is my business and is based on what other PODIATRISTS charge...
Most FHP charge £10-£15 because they know they are not as qualified.. What I am trying to say is that her charges are absolutely ridiculous.

 

Lottie,

I will take your advice thankyou. She is definitely not on the HCPC register. However I can not find her details on any of the bt, yell websites etc.
Do I need an address?

 

?

So your actually concerned because her charges are higher that yours and in your view that is wrong ?

If she is charging twice what you are and making a success of her practice , has it occurred to you that she is giving twice the service to the patient perhaps inasmuch as more of patient friendly / variety of Tx perhaps pedicures etc ??

In a free market you cannot dictate charges others make as others cant in what you charge so.........

Perhaps she attracts patients BECAUSE she charges a higher fee = you get what you pay for in a lot of informed patients view ??

The fact is it would appear her practical skills in footcare are good or she wouldn't survive BUT she should NOT be using protected title to attract patients.

Cheers
D

 

My original question was actually is she using a protected title or not? I was making reference to your response. I have her leaflet right infront of me, explaining what she treats. My issue is that she is using a protected title, but also us as Podiatrists, should not have to put right the messes FHP's make of OC's for example, and I have seen it in the past. And yes what concerns me is £22 being charged for say a 6week course relating to the foot AND claiming they treat diabetics, when they wouldn't know what the hell the were doing if it came to an infected ulcer on the foot.

 

Your original question was

It would appear if she is charging £22 that is a fair if somewhat modest charge for footcare at the level of their training ( rather than an someone untrained ).

Perhaps you could inform us what an FHP course actually consists of ?? I have heard claims made but never seen ACTUALLY what the course consists of factually rather than hearsay.

The NHS are discharging Pts from diabetic clinics for self Tx so why cant these FHP's cut their nails ?? If the pt has an ulcer then the refer back to the hospital or a podiatrist ? I have a nail studio locally that has been Tx DM1 insulin controlled people who are stupid enough to let them do it But that is their choice.

I take referrals from FHP's for various conditions those sensible ones that work within their scope of practice. The foolish ones that carry on regardless I don't think survive in this day and age. I also take referrals from podiatrists that have been unsuccessful with a procedure and are unwilling to continue through lack of confidence or level of skill / knowledge.

As I said she cannot legally offer chiropody or podiatry because that is protected. How enforceable it is to stop her doing it on past performance is debatable as the practitioners simply change the wording to say podologist or the like and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Perhaps a letter from the HCPC may help but I would have thought your fee should be put up from £20 to at least £35 to reflect your training and bring you into line with other podiatrists. You would be very surprised how patients are attracted to a fee structure as it gives them the confidence in the practitioner. BUT that must be followed by tx and knowledge to back up the fee.
Cheers
D

 

Me too. And therein lays the possibilty of a working relationship with FHP`s, FCA`s, reflexologists, pedicurists, chiropractors, physios, etc, etc.

Why not approach the FHP and discuss a referral pathway that will benefit you, them and more importantly, their patients?

Just a thought.

Bel

 

Good advice, but if I may play Devil's Advocate for a moment and ask what is the difference between a FHP and yourself, other than your registration with the HCPC (as well as experience). You state, Derek, that you have never actually seen what a FHP course consists of but surely it is the same course that you undertook at SMAE only the end certificate is different in name?

People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost.
- H. Jackson Brown

 

Mark
That was 25 years ago !!!

After many CPD courses including post grad uni courses I would have imagined an FHP course has changed in that time. I don't know and neither does anyone else from what I can make of it because I hear a lot of nonsense spoken about SMAE training based on prejudice and fantasy ( including from you over the years) and many times I have agreed the basic training leaves a lot to be desired if in those days you had no other medical training.

I believe in modern times, most of the training is done by tutors who themselves did a 3 year uni course but what that FHP course actually consists of I don't know and I would suggest neither do you ?

BUT

They also give a full range of post grad covering everything a 3 year graduate covers and yes Mark as I have told you that many times as well that I completed ALL of them and have completed my CPD education since then in all avenues of podiatry.

When I started I went in more expensive than any other chiropodist. I'm still here and yes thriving, so , despite all the prejudice it can be done.

My point in this thread , is the objection raised that an FHP is charging more that the podiatrist who has taken exception to that and offered a solution and advice.

What I am not going to do is go down yet another them and us road devils advocate or not :bash:

Cheers
D

 

My best advice to you is to give up podiatry and find another job.
I have been a podiatrist for 27 years and frankly it has been the biggest waste of time ever. It does not matter how qualified you are, you will always be up against the lay practitioner who will strip away your professional credibility and undercut your fees. The profession may have protected titles but the function is not. What makes this allot worse in my opinion is the complacency of the Society and HCPC who will take your money and spend it on fancy seminars in five star hotels!
Your not going to see anything change in the future except an increase in the subscription fees to keep allot of stuffed shirts going on to pension day.
http://www.podiatry-arena.com/images/smilies/pigsfly.gif

 

That is a very sad post

I agree that the excessive requirements of the admin side of the profession look after themselves in the luxury of 5 star hotels mostly funded by the taxpayer !!! = ME who has to pay for CPD, accommodation and loss of business as an IPP for CPD

I have been in practice a similar time to yourself and YES this undercutting thing has stopped me increasing my fee's for the last 5 years

The undercutting is from podiatrists, these cash only visiting pods working in the NHS and do a bit of moonlighting on the side.

THAT is another major influence on your practice ( and mine) irrespective of the morals of the situation, I go back to my £10 a go that some practitioners are charging( from whatever training background FHP or Pod) less tax , less insurance ,less accountancy fee's, less heating, lighting, phone, business rates ,( rent where applicable), if not vehicle insurance , tax, insurance ( and all you ladies that are re- insuring this year have a look at the increase ,"thank you European union AGAIN !!")

Now will somebody tell me HOW you can do that on £10 a go please ????

Those of us that do it the right way struggle ( as perhaps you did snowstorm ?) against the cash only brigade ?

That is the only way this profession will sort itself out along with Google , Amazon and the rest . not on the same scale / volume as them obviously , BUT, get hold of these cowboys and take em to task and sort out the problem :butcher:

Only then will you get a level playing field on charging which will help all in the long run except the cowboys :deadhorse:. which should sort out your problem snowstorm

Cheers
D

 

If you approach any podiatrist in private practice you will encounter the same old story of diminishing returns. I started a new business a year ago and it makes podiatry as a means of income look poor. Another great advantage is that I'm free from all the bureaucracy and regulative stipulation of my former profession. My only disappointment now is that I wish I had taken the opportunity many years ago, but like many, foolishly believed that things would get better . How stupid of me!
http://www.podiatry-arena.com/images/smilies/Sinking.gif

My advice still stands, find something else to do, podiatry is a dead duck.

 

And your former profession was???

A year to build a new business is not a long time. My very first accountant told me "if it doesn't work in 5 years , give it up" which I think is sage advice.

A year is not enough time to give it a fair chance. Hard work, yes, very much so, long hours ,bitty days, an uphill struggle from day one and no regular income to support you , living on a knife edge. Tax returns, accountants fee's, suppliers fee's for consumables ,equipment supplies / replacement, servicing fee's, CPD, clinical waste disposal, admin .....and the rest .........

All go to make up a life as an IPP

BUT

Please give it a go for another few years if you can, the rewards for working as your own boss reaps its own rewards and a dead duck suddenly it isn't

Your ability to treat patients properly without the rubbish the goes along with NHS or any other state run department that give the air of political correctness ect.

If many of them worked in your situation, they would have a rude awakening to the real world and if they worked very very hard using their common sense and skills in business acumen as well as clinical skills may get the rewards from that are really worth the effort and the financial rewards match if you run your business properly and at a profit.

Please re think your opinion give yourself time and think about the positives rather than the negatives.

As Bel said try a network of referrals to and from FHP's, Physio's, oesteopaths ect have a chat with them perhaps do some cpd in different disciplines.

All makes for a change of scenery and interests make your own way without getting hung up on what others are charging.

As Dave Smith said do what suits you , to your life , practice and to your ambition.

Good luck for the future:drinks

Cheers
D

 

"A year to build a new business is not a long time. My very first accountant told me "if it doesn't work in 5 years , give it up" which I think is sage advice"


Any accountant will advise a new business owner in ANY business, when set up properly, you cannot expect to make money in less than three years. There are many of us out here who have done the hard yards and are quite happy. Quality service, in the right area, with intellegent use of wide referral base and appropriate advertising, should lead to success. If not, please take your negativity elsewhere!

 

Please, do us a favour - leave the Arena, and close the door on the way out.

 

Snowstorm have to agree with you. Having put myself through university, with a student loan, with no NHS job at the end of it, then going into private practice - up against FHPs and The Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists not stating anything on their website with regard to the differences (therefore not supporting my education spiel that I give to my patients) - with keeping my rates low to get the business, I have to say I am very disappointed in the money i make. However, have turned it around in my favour, I see it now as a charity vocation - lucky I have a well off partner who keeps me in cars and Podiatry subscriptions.

I certainly would not recommend anyone training to be a Podiatrist these days, there is just no jobs, etc. To be honest with you, am in favour of closing all university Podiatry depts for 3 years starting, from September 2013.

It is irresponsible of the govt to be training all these Podiatrists and then not provide them with a job afterwards and then expect them to compete against FHPs. Definately not fair on those Podiatry students/ new graduates (and old graduate - me):sinking:

 

apologies one sentence did not make sense - amendments are:-

Would not recommend anyone to embark on a Podiatry degree.

Close podiatry schools (university depts) for 3 years starting as of September 2013 - no more 1st years. Not fair on students with no jobs to go to afterwards and having to compete against FHPs.

 

Podiatrists are entirely responsible for their own demise. Over a period of 27 years I have seen more than enough willful complacency. On one occasion I was ejected from a Society meeting for suggesting that Schools of Podiatry should play a more proactive role in trying to influence ministers to bring about protection of title commensurate with function.
It’s sad that so many podiatrists still believe that their representing organizations have their interests at heart. I wonder how long its going to take for the penny to drop. The British Association for Counselling & Psychotherapy on the other hand is a professional body that does show how to lead from the front and fight its corner.
http://ipnosis.postle.net/PDFS/AbolishHPC Petition22_08_2010.pdf

Most of the colleagues that I trained with many years back have found alternative employments, but who really cares! Recent statistics have shown a marked decline in the registered number podiatrists /chiropodists. I hate to quote hairdressers but a similar parallels exists, one on every corner, but each struggling to make a viable living, each undercutting and denigrating the other.

I feel sorry for students currently undertaking podiatry degrees, they are in for one hell of a shock when they discover the reality of the word obsolescence.
You might also want to read the reviews of the Plymouth School of Podiatry
It would seem that some students have already established the reality.

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews119447.html

Reading the comments made on Podiatry Arena of late gives an additional measure of the level of current frustration.

Their are some of course who still think there isn't a problem, all I can say to you is just soldier on, it won't be long before the big reality hits home. For those podiatrists with a little more optimism I would suggest that you collectively get your act together and establish a more coherent representative body that will reflect the professions credibility in contrast with "protecting the public" Alternatively put your time, effort and money elsewhere.
http://www.podiatry-arena.com/images/smilies/dash3.gif

 

Agree with most of that. For those of us fortunate to have more than one iron in the fire, it is hugely frustrating comparing podiatry with other modalities, especially when one appreciates the enormous potential that exists within the UK profession. Expand your horizons and consider where the profession has gone in the US and Australia and just think what could be in the UK if we had a similar focussed approach to learning and practice. Hardly surprising so many leave disillusioned and disappointed - even with the personal satisfaction with a career that can be so richly rewarding - if not in monetary terms but in the other aspects that make up a good career life - respect, gratitude and honour. Continue down the same path and the same scenario will present in years to come. Sadly, I don't see the aptitude or drive for change - not from the cohort of current clinicians.

 

Re: FOOT HEALTH PRACTIONER USING PROTECTED TITLE??

Dave,

Go to the HPC website and download complaint sheets. Fill em in and post them back to HPC with a copy of her adverts etc and they will take it from there. They have stopped a couple near me.

Best wishes

Nick

 

I couldn't disagree more strongly!

I have been in practice 5.5 years and it is blooming. I would suggest that it is not necessarily the profession but the professional and their attitude and approach to the business. To succeed you have to be better and offer more than anyone else around and quite often charge a little more.

Don't offer the same 20 minute NHS appointments. Give quality and quantity and respect people for parting with their hard earned cash.

If you don't then please don't complain if others around you are doing so and reaping the rewards.

Nick

 

no offer them 15 minute appts for more cash 20 minutes is a lifetime my ortho shoulder consultant charged me 180 quid for 15 mins nothing wrong with them 20 minute slots 3 per hour earns more than 2 per hour assuming the same rate. ps how do you offer more than anyone else most of us can all do the same stuff. i keep hearing about unique selling points on the arena. if u are recently qualified how can you have one unless you are fabulously good looking etc clinically its hard to be unique unless you are uniquely useless.

 

Don't agree at all.

No not fab looking and nearly 60. Try treating them how you would like to be treated - novel idea I know. Why compare to Orthopod prices...that's why you are saying bad things about him...don't you want people to say good things?

I tell you how I can have a fantastic selling point - it's because I am good AND I know how to talk to people and make them laugh and give them a feel good factor!

Sow the seeds and reap the rewards.

Scoff and cough and only think of money and ditto

Nick

 

Nick

Truest words I have ever seen spoken on this arena.

Like minded Del :drinks
Cheers
D

 

Thanks Del I appreciate it.

I get sick of hearing patients coming in and telling me how badly they have been treated in NHS care or by other privates (not about one other private one in my town if you are reading Lucy!). In these days when money is short I think you have to understand and give more and respect them (another old fashioned concept).

Rush them in do a quick and half hearted job and charge them lots without a care and why do people wonder when they get no calls?

Kay off soap box now

Cheers Nick

 

Ahh as you said Nick ( an old fashioned concept) gone but not quite forgotten:drinks

But

I believe we have both been in the emergency services in our former lives where , get it wrong and your in trouble ( dead) where you learn people skills very very quickly.

Most of the pods I come into contact with are gobsmacked at my attitude to patients and are blown away by it = years and years of practice

The latest one posted on twitter " delthetoe you rock" which I take as a compliment.

"Attitude is all" to making a successful practice IMHO ( as you also know)

I don't see too much of that in todays youth, grads ect . shame but there it is

Cheers fella
D

 

Not saying bad things about my ortho guy read the text just said cost 180pounds love the guy he fixed me would have paid double just making the point that you will find it difficult in business spending an hour with a patient it sort of limits your income stream, wish I could have that long.
What I was implying was make them love you etc and see more per hour just a thought fast is not necessarily bad or poor quality .many fhps private pods spend an hour doing a nail trim and having a chat, I just don't get it

 

Good for you Kitos and genuinely I am pleased for you. Don't mean to sound grumpy, but if you let me know the town you in, would be pleased to send you the 5 FHPs we have in this town.

I have tons of patients and would have tons more, if it wasn't for these FHPs. I offer a very good service and have a good word of mouth referral system, but many folk want to spend £12 - £15 to have their feet done by the FHPs.

:sinking:

 

I think it may just be a reflection of society as a whole, Derek rather than something unique to podiatry. Not sure if you read the article in the Observer
the other weekend about elderly neglect and abuse by some nurses in the NHS - and whilst this may be at the extreme and still relatively uncommon - but it may be indicative of further degredation of standards. A caring, empathetic nature is the product of good parenting - getting the youngster to appreciate the important things in life.

I give a talk every year to my local sixth-form and I usually recount the story of a professor of philospohy who addressed his new intake of students and placed a large glass sweetie jar and a cardboard box on his lectern.

When the class began, he wordlessly picked up the empty jar and proceeded to fill it with golf balls from his cardboard box. He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed that it was.

The professor then picked up a box of marbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles rolled into the open areas between the golf balls. He then asked the students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was.

The professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else. He asked once more if the jar was full.. The students responded with a unanimous 'yes.'

The professor then produced two beers from under the table and poured the entire contents into the jar effectively filling the empty space between the sand.The students laughed..

'Now,' said the professor as the laughter subsided, 'I want you to recognise that this jar represents your life. The golf balls are the important things - your family, your children, your health, your friends and your favorite passions - and if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full. The marbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house and your car.. The sand is everything else - the small stuff - the mobile phones and laptops in front of you, the internet, your games and little pleasures.

'If you put the sand into the jar first,' he continued, 'there is no room for the marbles or the golf balls. The same goes for life.

If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff you will never have room for the things that are important to you.

Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness.

Spend time with your children. Spend time with your parents. Visit with grandparents. Take your spouse out to dinner. Play another 18 holes. There will always be time to clean the house and mow the lawn.

Take care of the golf balls first---the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand.

One of the students raised her hand and inquired what the Beer represented. The professor smiled and said, 'I'm glad you asked.' The beer just shows you that no matter how full your life may seem, there's always room for a couple of beers with a friend.

I guess we have all been consumed with the little things over the last two or three decades - hardly surprising with all the marketing and advertising and peer pressure to keep up with the Jones's and Smiths - but whilst our generation may have had a different grounding, the younger generation have been subject to even greater influences and sometimes that is reflected in their behaviour towards others. Not all though!

 

Ahh maybe it was the lack of punctuation that made me think that.

I don't spend an hour (unless MSK). Price yourself according to your worth and what people will pay you. Act the best and be the best. If you can do in 15 minutes what I do in 30/40 then I wish you luck in your burn out.

Don't care about FHPS. You cannot ever compare what they do/know/provide with what I do. Shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.

Nick

 

You have obviously seen my frequent rants in the past about nursing care in the modern nurse and NO MARK it is not isolated!!!!

I see after a welsh MP's husband died this week she gave an absolutely appalling report of his care...= why I rant about it

Yes it is not just podiatry Mark and yes it is modern day society

BUT

I don't have to agree with the way it has gone ( as I'm sure Nick doesn't)

What we are both saying is look at your patient who is in pain, fed up ,probably at the end of their tether because they are confronted with hard, uncaring heath care professionals for months. Look beyond their words and find a link with them no matter what that link is...and build on it then and only then can you genuinely help that patient !!

Your story Mark I have heard many times in different contexts but the body of the content is the same.

I am talking about every individual patient with individual needs. How we teach the new pods that skill I don't know ,as a prominent pod who has seen and works with me from time to time, and agrees with my methods told me several times " if only you could come and teach in my department, what a better life the patients would have" trouble is , with the political correct nonsense that is in the NHS and lack of common sense I would probably last 2 minutes because I don't suffer fools gladly and would have to say what I thought, in my own way

Hope that clarifies
Cheers
D