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I'm asking for your support

Discussion in 'Australia' started by APodC, Apr 24, 2015.

  1. APodC

    APodC Active Member


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    Hi all,

    As the CEO of the Australasian Podiatry Council, I'm going to ask the profession to get behind us and the affiliated APodA's.

    On what and why?
    In recent years, we've made a strong commitment to doing what's right for the profession. A few years ago, we were asked by members to review our relationship with Guild Insurance but to be frank, we weren't strong enough financially to live without commissions. We've spent the last few years building our financial and service base and recently decided we needed to make a decision on insurance.

    What the decision means for the APodC is a six figure drop in commissions. We knew this going into the decision but we believe that to get the best possible deal for members, we needed to be driven by the value of the offer. We made the jump to include insurance in the membership because that means that we have buying power that we can use to get the best product we can for members, not just this year but from now on.

    Where I'm asking for your support is that we need membership to grow by 10% just to maintain our current revenue. I'm asking for the profession to help us to help you by joining the association. Help us to get 10% growth so we can keep heading in this direction and fighting for members.

    As for the quality of the offer, I'm confident it's the best offer in the market. I've been dealing with agreeements on PI Insurance in health for over ten years and I can say this one is a good one. It offers $20mil in coverage at an incredible price, with the federal government currently covering claims over $20mil. There is a risk management committee being set up between us and the insurer to ensure we mitigate claims risks and claims are managed by legal people, not call centres.

    The offer for public / institutional members (yes you need your own insurance to make sure you're fully covered rather than just the hospital) is brilliant at just over $100 (can't quote exact prices because they vary depending on state taxes) and part time people getting a decent reduced rate. If you join before 30th June, the policy starts immediately on the APodA receiving the form and payment so you can cancel your existing policy and get a refund. You're insured until 4pm on 30th June next year.

    Students members insurance is free so if they do something silly like giving advice to mates at a BBQ, they're covered. If they take cover before they graduate, they're covered until 4pm on the 30th June the following year even if they start working.

    This has been many months of work reviewing and negotiating the best master policy we could find. I'm now asking the profession to support that work by becoming a member and taking up the offer so we can keep getting the best deal possible. Take a look at the policy and feel free to ask questions. You can get the forms from your state association (except WA where we'll have something shortly).

    Cheers,
    Damian.
     
  2. Toohey

    Toohey Welcome New Poster

    ?Is Guild still a major sponsor of the National Conference
     
  3. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Yes. We'd agreed to accept them as a sponsor prior to making a decision on insurance. Guild was considered as part of the process however we decided Insurance House offered the best choice. We expect Insurance House will sponsor future conferences.

    Cheers,
    Damian.
     
  4. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Are you trying to say that the APodC (a not for profit organization) lost somewhere between $100,000 and $999,999 as a drop in commissions it used to get from its members being insured with their "preferred insurance provider"?

    So just to be clear - APodC was receiving a number between $100,000 and $999,999 every year as a "commission" because its members signed up to its preferred provider?
     
  5. Chook

    Chook Member

    Well that's awkward. Unless members can opt to remain with Guild?
     
  6. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Hi Paul,

    Yes. I'm pleased you're surprised by our level of transparency on the changes on this front.

    All of the associations that I'm aware of receive a commission (on all member and non member policies) from Guild, which I believe is stated on the form - it's no secret. This has been in place for a decade and is part of what all associations refer to as 'non membership' revenue aimed at keeping pressure off member fees. Given our annual non conference revenue is $1mil, it's very much at the bottom of your estimates.

    We've decided to focus on member growth by maximising memberhip value rather than relying on non member revenue.

    Yes Chook, slightly awkward albeit we still have a good personal relationship with the people at Guild. Just because we've made a business decision, doesn't mean we won't talk to Guild.

    Regards,
    Damian.
     
  7. Chook

    Chook Member

    Can you please answer this question?
     
  8. trevor

    trevor Active Member

    Insurance House have always been cheaper than Guild and offer much better service.
     
  9. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Hi Chook, yes members can opt out but at just over $400 for $20mil in coverage (less for part time, public sector / institutions or students), I'm not sure I understand why anyone would. It's a great policy and if you join now, you are covered till 4pm on 30th June next year with no extra premium.

    Cheers.
    Damian.
     
  10. Toohey

    Toohey Welcome New Poster

    Do you mean that each state association and not A Pod C got money directly from Guild ?? Every year??How much?? From when??
    Simple answer please
     
  11. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Not surprised. Cautiously Dubious. Do you mean to say APodC or APodA's are not getting any "kickbacks" from the new insurance deal? None. Absolutely none?

    Well i'm not sure all members (or non members) would agree that its "not a secret". So APodC/APodA get monetary deals on all "non member" Podiatrists who are members of Guild as well? Seriously? How did APodC/APodA get that right? Non members choose to be "non members" for a reason - now they are being told if they are still insured with "Guild" that APodC was still getting a kick back from them? Wow! Transparency??????
     
  12. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Hi Toohey,

    Yes, the state associations agreed about nine years ago and reaffirmed about seven years ago (including Podiatry WA from out your way when they were a member) that the commissions go toward funding national services for the benefit and support of all members.

    Cheers,
    Damian.
     
  13. Toohey

    Toohey Welcome New Poster

    ok thanks for that- so again- how much directly to podwa? when? how was it proportioned? Will that be occurring in the future?
    Just trying to get my head around all this- Does insurance house have an office in W.A and what about the Pods who have all their other insurances house etc through Guild?
     
  14. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Hi Toohey,

    The states agreed that the funds wouldn't be distributed but rather they'd be used to support work nationally. While I wasn't around when the decision occurred, I understand that there were issues with administration at the time and that we were collectively missing out on significant revenue. To resolve the issues, the states decided that the APodC would administer the program, retain the funds and spend them on providing services nationally. We've continued to have the support of APodC member states for this model until this recent decision was made.

    As for business and other insurances, Insurance house will provide the full suite at very competitive prices. They dont have a WA office but they have people there regularly working with the WA offices of the associations they deal with.

    There won't be future distribution of commissions as we're getting out of the business of commissions on insurance.

    Cheers,
    Damian.
     
  15. trevor

    trevor Active Member

  16. toughspiders

    toughspiders Active Member

    I believe it should be a case of opting ïn" not ''out""?? am i reading this right.
    I personally do not believe i am getting value from my association. I have been disgusted year after year at the price of the conference. I do not believe i get much from my association other than a magazine. Whilst it may be a bit unfair to compare , the UK conference cost this year was 199 pounds.
     
  17. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Thanks Toughspiders. I'll answer this in some detail as you've touched on the value question so I'll respond broadly to readers rather than just to you.

    Any member who doesn't want to take the insurance can opt out which means members have a choice.

    On the issue of value, we've been told recently by reliable sources that the medical lobbyists have told the minister behind closed doors that allied health items are blowing out Medicare and these funds should be channeled through GP's. This is $163mil a year in podiatry alone (which occurred through association lobbying) that we're trying very hard to protect. That's $163mil a year / 2.2 million services a year, which is growing at 10% a year, going into supporting patients to access podiatry.

    In 2013, we fought to retain prescribing rights while medical lobbyists sought to have them significantly watered down or removed. QLD has just recently gotten prescribing rights as an extension to scope after years of hard work by the association. We're working on improved MBS access, PBS, expanded imaging rights, prescribing in the last two states and each time you order an XRay, thank the association. Arguing there isn't value in the association is a little like suggesting there's no value in home insurance. Can you really afford not to have people fighting for you in an environment where medical lobbyists want to grab the funds, government wants to save the money wherever they can and other professions are nipping at our heels on growth areas like the diabetic foot?

    The APodC receives less than $1mil a year from membership fees. We then work hard to attract sponsorship. Last year we spent every cent working for members and the profession and posted a loss of around $30,000. This year, we will make a surplus from the conference which we hope to spend on improving the organisation so it can be more efficient before making another loss next year.

    Yes, comparing us to the UK is comparing apples and oranges as Australian associations function very differently. As for the conference, most of the cost for members is taken up in the cost of providing the event and pleasingly we had record numbers last week. If we'd charged $199 per member, it wouldn't have covered the food bill. Anything we do make as a surplus is reinvested into key projects as we run the associations pretty much at cost. Sadly, we only have 4100 registered podiatrists so as much as we'd like to build scale and reduce costs, there's a limit to what we can do.

    I'm pretty passionate about maximising value to members and about having open conversations about where we're going. While I think we still have plenty of work to be done, I do believe in the importance of having a strong professional body.

    Cheers,
    Damian.
     
  18. Tim Foran

    Tim Foran Active Member

    Hi Damian

    Does it look like we will lose the medicare item number?
     
  19. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    It's unlikely it will just be totally removed. There's some talk about giving the funds to the GP's to purchase services for patients (which we won't support) or tightening up the eligibility to reduce costs. It's more likely that we'll see some form of restructure proposed aimed at limiting use.

    We're arguing strongly that growth is being driven by the growth in chronic disease and diabetes which needs to be funded if we are to manage hospital costs.

    That said, dentists have seen entire items just removed over night.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2015
  20. toughspiders

    toughspiders Active Member

    Hi Tim
    Thanks for your response and i value what you are doing to keep medicare services with Podiatrists. That is my point. It is for Podiatrists ALL Podiatrists not just members, non paying members a well. I agree that without support Podiatrists this could not be achieved. My feeling is that as a long term member of the association i am unable see what is done for me as an individual member. I get a magazine and i get some emails with material on that i cannot alter or use for social media or print out without excessive cost.

    I personally would like to see more CPD free material available for members whether it be online or low cost cpd small events for members maybe run by members to keep costs down
     
  21. Zac

    Zac Active Member

    Haven't GP's benefitted from writing referrals/care plans to Podiatrist's?
     
  22. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Guild just sent me an email with a great offer to re-new my insurance with them! I imagine all Podiatrists in Australia got this as well.....
     
  23. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Hi Zac, yes they have. Government is looking at that as well.

    Yes Paul. Guild were asked to pitch their best offer when we requested proposals and the best price they offered us was nearly $100 more than the offer we accepted on a lower coverage product. The Insurance House offer is for $20mil cover and the federal government covers any claims over this amount. Basically, Insurance House worked hard to give members the best offer in the market.

    Guild asked us to sign a new agreement late last year that required us to give them 12 months notice before changing product. Insurance house is comfortable with us cancelling any time if we think we can get a better deal. If we took a master policy with Guild, they wanted us to deal with much of the insurance inquiries and take on additional administration. Insurance house is comfortable with members calling them direct.

    We sought a master policy as we know that we can use our collective buying power to get the best deal for members on an ongoing basis (not just the next 12 months) but we can only do that if members support us to support them. The product is the lowest price in Australia for a $20mil product for podiatrists and we aim to try and keep it that way.
     
  24. Ros Kidd

    Ros Kidd Active Member

    Although I have been retired over five years, I just thought I would like to make a couple of observations that APodC may need to consider should they still be the case.
    The Minister of Health NSW (I assume other states as well) is advised on podiatry matters by a committee which consists of Area Directors of Podiatry or similar and they come from the public sector and are largely none members. Revamping Chronic Care models and the impact on the Public system (and the political implications ) will already have been discussed. Perhaps I'm old and grumpy but in my time APodC did virtually nothing for Public sector. Meetings took place that affected podiatry to which APodC were not invited until the final rubber stamping of pay and policies. If you wish a 10% increase in membership then you need to look to the public sector and radically rethink what they wish, you may of course be too late. Just look at the conferences in the public sector and what they charge.

    My opinion
    Ros
    Ret, Area Director Podiatry, SSWAHS.
    Ret, HOD Liverpool Hosp, HRFC
     
  25. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Hi Ros, The APodC has typically remained clear of state governments at the request of our state associations. However, with increasing levels of cross border work happening, we now engage Chief Allied Health officers nationally and are discussing a range of issues with them on an ongoing basis. I've been asked to their next meeting to give them a further update on what we're doing and where we're going.

    We also made sure that public sector podiatrists could get top up insurance for around $100 a year which covers people outside the hospital (eg. A Saturday morning in private practice, a bit of advice around the BBQ or looking at someone at the kids football match).

    I personally sit on the Board of Directors of one of the large tertiary hospitals which gives me a some understanding of the challenges of the public sector and our members working in the sector.

    What can I say Ros. We're working on it.

    Cheers,
    Damian.
     
  26. CJPWA

    CJPWA Member

    Can you give us some details of the offer?
     
  27. Ros Kidd

    Ros Kidd Active Member

    Just a suggestion Damian but I note.
    APodC Conference 2015, 1 day registration Members $690, Non-members $1385.

    Liverpool Diabetic Foot Conference 2015, 2 day registration members $450 Non-members $550

    Are you really trying as hard as you can to get non-members to join? As far as I can see from the programs the apples look like the same apples.
    Ros
     
  28. Chook

    Chook Member

    APodC needs to be very careful of this cross border work - there has been a serious privacy breach with unauthorised disclosure of my private information as today I received an unsolicited email from another state MA. How secure is the data that APodC is collecting? Should members be worried about other types of breaches or infractions when it comes to the extremely important issue of their PI and PL insurance? According to your Privacy Policy there will now be disciplinary or legal action proceeding.
     
  29. CJPWA

    CJPWA Member

    IS APODC supplying confidential information to State associations outside the original state of membership?
    Did APODC supply an attendees database to the conference exhibitors and sponsors . Attended 2013, didn't attend the 2015 conference but certainly got the many emails from the exhibitors at the 2015 conference. Even when a complaint was sent, I still received them.
    Privacy Breach anyone?
     
  30. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Interesting tactic. Yes a memberhip offer is coming and it fully complies with our publicly available privacy policy.

    Our privacy statement can be found at: http://www.apodc.com.au/index.php/about-us-2/privacy-policy/

    It specifically states:
    "Where we collect your information, we may provide it to our member associations for the purpose of following up inquiries, membership, member promotions and other communications related to their membership offering".

    We've previously stated that no data supplied by Podiatry WA for any purpose has been used by the APodC or another member association as that data belonged to Podiatry WA.

    In regard to the conference Corrina, you must have missed the privacy statement and the opt out box that allows each registrant to to choose not be published in the attendance list. We've stated previously that we have not ever handed out member lists to sponsors.

    You'd be well aware that suppliers need to comply with privacy laws and that the privacy commission has a comprehensive complaints mechanism if you've contacted the organisation to raise your concerns and they haven't been addressed.
     
  31. CJPWA

    CJPWA Member

    This is not a tactic but a genuine concern.

    I have carefully read the privacy policy and the contacting of a previous conference delegate by a supplier at 2015 conference is a breach in my opinion. Not responding to a complaint is another. Yes you can opt out, from each of the many different companies contacting you, but the information should never have been given to them in the first place.

    And i'd appreciate the use of CJPWA in this forum- forum etiquette please APODC

    And regarding the privacy policy on using APODA member contact information; I am sure many would agree that distributing personal information collected by one organisation for a specific purpose, to another organisation in order to provide direct competition to the original organisation is a breach of the intentions of the policy.

    Where is the line drawn? What state will be next?

    How does SA MEMBERS feel about being caught up in the APODC's actions? Are they even aware of what their membership funds are being used for and the direction taken by their council?

    These are questions all APODA members should ask before giving you their support
     
  32. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Hi CJPWA,

    Any details provided by the APodC to its members states have been collected by the APodC either from forms provided to the APodC or from the public domain. Our privacy policy is clear that when we collect information, we will provide it to our member associations for a number of purposes including to promote membership. We're very transparent about that. We don't nor have we ever as far as I'm aware provided member information provided to us by any state Member Association to another member association or anyone else (other than contractors such as the mail house).

    With regard to the conference, the conference registration clearly states that a list of registrants details will be published. Once published, it is in the public domain and suppliers may use those details to contact you, as they legally can with all information in the public domain. All conference attendees have the option to opt out of the published list and if they have done so, their details are not published. Again, this is very transparent.

    We do think that transparency is important. For that reason posts from officers and staff of the APodC are clearly identified as such. That way, people can judge our comments knowing that we represent an organisation and its members. We look forward to ensuring WA podiatrists can remain associated with the APodC through an alternative membership offer. Contrary to suggestions being made in this forum, the APodC has an exceptional privacy record spanning 50 years.

    Regards,
    Damian Mitsch
    Chief Executive Officer
    APodC
    0403 372 900
     
  33. Chook

    Chook Member

    APodC's enthusiastic support and encouragement of South Australia providing membership to WA podiatrists is not showing good judgement or wisdom. This is not the time to fan divisions or factions within the small podiatry community of Australia. How can these actions be seen as building a unified and strong podiatry voice? Surely there are some higher thinkers in the MAs and APodC who see how damaging this is for our profession. The consequences will reverberate for years unless our leaders rethink this strategy.
     
  34. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Hi Chook,

    We agree that the situation in WA creates strong emotions for everyone involved and that the decision by Podiatry WA to remove the association from the national body has put us all in a challenging position. It's not one we wanted and while we can go back over old ground, I suspect that this won't help the situation for next financial year.

    The APodC and all of its state associations are working more collaboratively today than at any other recent time. In our view, Western Australian podiatrists deserve the opportunity to be a part of what's happening nationally. The offer through the South Australian legal structure with a local committee to drive the membership gives WA podiatrists the same opportunity to remain involved in the national body and a member association as every other podiatrist around the country. It means that next financial year they can:
    1. Continue to use the blue "P" logo.
    2. Access the insurance house master policy designed to build buying power for members.
    3. Continue to receive Australian Podiatrist as a national magazine.
    4. Access discounted practice accreditation against national standards with APodC resources.
    5. Participate in part of the national career framework.
    6. Continue to get Footscope and other personalised practice material.
    7. Access the free APodC webinars.
    8. Access discounts on cars and a range of other retail partners through MBA.
    9. Help to support the strong national advocacy effort to ensure we continue to have influence rather than just a presence.

    Yes, we find ourselves in an unenviable position of either walking away from Western Australian podiatrists and leaving them divided from the rest of the country and the profession, or offering a membership option that will sadly divide the local membership. The rest of the country supports the APodC, wants us to be united and feels we shouldn't walk away, particularly when we've just agreed to start the One Podiatry project.

    What I can state emphatically is that the APodC's preference is that Podiatry WA returns to APodC membership next year and becomes part of the national community of podiatry again. However there's no suggestion at this stage that this will happen.
     
  35. Pod66

    Pod66 Member

    Hi- considering my insurance options could you go over the public liability and product cover component of the IH offer I am unsure if it matches my current insurer Aon? I don't want to be at risk in these areas and am a little skeptical of one size fits all cover.
    Thx p
     
  36. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Hi Pod66,

    I can understand people being skeptical. We set out to get the best possible policy for members and we think we've done that. Long term, the master policy gives us collective buying power to get the best insurance deal.

    The policy gives $20mil public liability and product cover. You can read the full policy wording at http://www.apodc.com.au/wp-content/uploads/APodC-policy-wording-2015.pdf

    When I was at the Australian Physiotherapy Association (APA), that organisation cancelled an agreement with AON for behavior that AON felt was acceptable however the APA felt was unethical. Given we needed to have absolute faith in an insurer before we would consider a master policy, we chose to go a different way. I'm sure others will have had a different experience (I know someone will probably shoot me for the comment), but we needed to be certain.

    Cheers,
    Damian.
     
  37. Pod66

    Pod66 Member

    Thanks D,
    Did the APA move to a master policy with IH , and was this when you were there? Can they share any comments on the service - as the proof is always in the pudding.
    P
     
  38. Pod66

    Pod66 Member

    Should I be concerned about Aon conduct?
     
  39. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    I was involved in the decision to move to a master policy however I left before companies were evaluated. They decided to go with Insurance House.

    The APodC board eventually interviewed the APA CEO to make sure the service levels were good before they made the decision. This was a key factor in making the decision.

    Keep in mind that the Insurance House service was designed by two very senior long term ex guild executives.
     
  40. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    Re AON, the APA decided not to deal with them after that. I wasn't involved in that decision but I'm aware of what happened. I expect staff have changed (as they have at the APA) and I don't know what the culture is like now but the APodC needed to be certain the insurer would support the profession.
     
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