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GPs critical of S4 Prescription Rights

Discussion in 'Australia' started by mike weber, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

    Re: Will S4 rights contribute to further specialisation within the Profession?

    Great article, and good comments from the APodC president.

    The AMA are using this approach with the nurse practitioners and midwives also:

    It seems that it is all fine to talk about 'collaboration' and 'working as a team' - just as long as it is on the AMA terms.

    I cannot think of anything less professional and more 'sour grapes' than this approach. You never hear of them complaining about receiving dental cases for medical assistance.

    LL
     
  2. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Re: Will S4 rights contribute to further specialisation within the Profession?

    But AMA Victoria president Harry Hemley said...

    ''Podiatrists are not trained in the complexities of these medications and their interactions, ....They are trained to cut toenails and trim corns. This is the dumbing down of medical care.''


    Dumbing down of medical profession must have already occurred because only a MORON wouldn't know that a Podiatrist does far more than "cut toenails and trim corns".

    Dr Harry Hemley it may be time for retirement? Out of date, out of your league and way out of your depth.

    Would really like to See Dr Hemley defend the millions of dollars a year of tax payer money wasted on GP consults which were absolutely un-necessary.

    To quote Dr David Armstrong (Podiatrist) every 30 seconds around the world someone loses a leg to diabetes. We all know the stats on morbidity and mortality after this occurs.

    Podiatry EPC - MAX $250 per year
    Dentistry EPC MAX $4500 per year

    When was the last time someone died due to oral hygiene issues in Australia?

    When was the last reported patient death due to a Podiatrist prescribing a scheduled 4 drug (including anaesthesia)? When was the last reported medical complication due to a Podiatrist prescribing a scheduled 4 drug (including anaesthesia)? I could go on for days with these types of examples - all backed up by hard data.

    Food for thought Dr Hemley.....

    ..would have been much nicer if our President Mr Brendan Brown had fired back with some statistics - Come on APodC, get those researchers digging up data and start throwing stones back!
     
  3. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

  4. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    I heard it on the radio news on the way to work! Just the GP's comments in a sound byte and no APodC response. Nothing like the truth to get in the way of a good story.

    Perhaps GP's need to get their own house in order before they start throwing stones (eg how many very obese DM patients did I see last week that the GP had on a sulphonylurea?). Everything that they are saying can go wrong with Podiatrist prescibing is already going wrong with GP prescribing!!!!

    I was on the periphery of the process in Victoria, but at least know the process. Submissions were made over the years by all interested parties including the AMA; lobbying went on (some of it by the AMA was agressive and underhand); the Govt formed a number of advisory committees that looked at all the issues. Based on all this contradictory opinion and advice, the govt made what they thought was the right decision.

    If I was a member of Joe public and not a podiatrist, knowing what I know about the process, the safeguards and training that has been put in place , I would be confident in the final decision and outcome of the process (its a shame the govt does not follow a similar process for all decisions!).

    All that is happened now is the GP's are using straw man arguments to misrepresent what Podiatrsts are and do and the safeguards and training put in place. They behaving like little Johnny who lost the footy game, and is now having a dummy spit at the umpiring and want to take the ball home with them!

    Get over it guys; focus on getting your own house in order and better outcomes for the patients.
     
  5. ALC

    ALC Active Member

    Great time and very good reason to support your Associations so they can be well prepared and resourced for these issues i would think. More and more of these issues will arise and cannot be taken to task if Podiatrists do not financially support there local Associations. Time for our Profession to mature and see more merit in membership than, "what can I get out of it". A slightly more broader view of the world may be helpful.
     
  6. Tuckersm

    Tuckersm Well-Known Member

    This is the full AMA response to the Pod Reg Board proposal sent out in Nov 2008. There are a lot of inaccuracies in it, as the AMA had been given the opportunity to comment many times since the passing of the legislation in 2005.
     
  7. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    6 Minutes are reporting:
    Podiatrist prescribing raises medicolegal worries
    by Louise Wallace
     
  8. jos

    jos Active Member

    Whilst I realize that dentists have prescribed antibiotics for many moons now, do (or did?) GPs moan about them?
    Also, is the list of drugs that dentists can prescribe similar to ours? I really don't see much difference between us prescribing and dentists prescribing............??
     
  9. Tuckersm

    Tuckersm Well-Known Member

    Jos,

    Dentists have access to the full formularly of medications for the treatment of conditions of dental conditions, so have access to so much more than us.

    Dentists have had access to medications since WW1, as they had a well formed association back then , and have always been university trained, so they got in on the ground floor. The AMA "gave up" the mouth ages ago, but don't want to give up the foot just yet.
     
  10. jos

    jos Active Member

    I checked with a dentist friend yesterday and he showed me the list of approved drugs - does look similar to ours at a quick glance.
    Also, they don't have to update their training at any stage-they just receive booklets from Govt (Health and Ageing) which updates their list/dosages etc.
    Also, he said he has not prescribed diazepam for at least 10 yrs and rarely before that.
    What do GPs think we are going to do with it??? Give it to every person we see?? Really........
     
  11. Beth Gill

    Beth Gill Member

    I rent a room in a dental clinic. I was telling one of the Dental Nurses about the AMA's stance on this. She said that the AMA said similar things about Dentists when they started prescribing...
     
  12. Then Dr Armstrong needs to tell US dumb healthcare program for the elderly and disabled, Medicare that (Paul Bowles)! Because they seem to insist on driving podiatrists out of business! Dr Arnstrong should address medicare and title that discussion, "The UTTER Importance of Podiatric Care in Diabetics AND the Geriatric Commnunity in General." Just recently, I received a bunch of denials for 11721 because of now demanded modifyers that I did not need to worry about all the times before August 16, 2009. And I wish these uneducated idiots with CMS/Medicare would stop using that pathetic term, "routine foot care"! In my office, at least, there is nothing routine about the kind of fungal toenails, some species being very aggressive if allowed to invade the skin such as ingrown nails, I surgically reduce/debride! Now they (CMS) have even decided the definition of nail debridement approved by that counter productive US podiatry assoiciation, APMA; the same useless association that penalizes one for not being a member of because the fees are just too darn high but does nothing to counteract these tactics by CMS and MDs who are constantly undermining/demeaning podiatry! Why doesn't CMS just STOP paying for toenails debridements PERIOD and just let the US patients decide how important our services to them are by cussing out their cogressional, fat-cat, leaders! I believe it is bad enough that CMS pays us so lilttle in this crappy nation and now this only adds to the frustration (see August 2009 podiatry policies, local medicare carriers of your particular region). All medicare, just as with other US healthcare plans and polcies, doing is just driving up healthcare costs even more by discouraging podiatrists from even bothering with such pettiness forcing patients' easily preventable illnesses to escalate into something more limb threatening forcing more expensive procedures and even hospitalizations!
    Dr Brooks
     
  13. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Dr Brooks I constantly read your posts on Podiatry Arena and I constantly re-read the same thing in each one. Seems you are extremely disgruntled with not only your profession, but your health care system and your country in general.

    May I suggest moving to Australia where the sky is blue, the weather is lovely, you have no scheduled 4 drug rights, no surgical admission rights and you don't have to worry about government funded health care to a large degree because "down under" Podiatry is not covered by Medicare.

    Food for thought?

    ;)
     
  14. Marco

    Marco Banned

    Re: Will S4 rights contribute to further specialisation within the Profession?

    Hi Paul,

    Great responce, I work in practice with several GP's I do believe that their main concern is loss of $$$$$$.
     
  15. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    Re: Will S4 rights contribute to further specialisation within the Profession?

    funny!!! On the one hand they concerned about the loss of income becasue other professions are getting access to S4 drugs; on the other hand they complaining that they so busy because there is a shortage of GP's!! .... they can't have it both ways :pigs:
     
  16. Marco

    Marco Banned

    I am also curious why dose the AMA say that it will effect the GP's insurance.

    Really do they think we will just prescribe drugs just because we can to anyone and everyone, that is the god complex showing through.
     
  17. posalafin

    posalafin Active Member

    I don't think we should get too hung up on what the AMA has to say. Remember that the AMA, although traditionally somewhat infuential, is really nothing more than a union representing & protecting its members. What it is doing is no more than what most industries & professions would do if they felt someone else was 'moving onto their turf'. In reality I don't think that the AMA is all that concerned about podiatrists having prescribing rights for a handful of drugs, given the small numbers of podiatrists in Australia & the limited number of conditions for which podiatrists are able to prescribe for.

    I suspect what they are more concerned about is that if podiatrists have prescribing rights then it may open the flood gates for a whole lot of other health practitioners to push for & be granted prescribing rights (physio's, chiro's, osteopaths, etc etc). The AMA has been no less vocal and derogatory towards nurse practitioners & midwife practitioners regarding their right to prescribing drugs, and I'm sure will be just as hostile towards any other professional group lobbying for prescribing rights. At the end of the day its all politics, and as we all know politics can be a very dirty game sometimes.

    When claims are made by other professions such as that made by the AMA regarding podiatrists only being toe nail & corn cutters it is the responsibility of the podiatry representative bodies (and individual podiatrists) to counter those claims immediately and convincingly.
     
  18. MrBen

    MrBen Active Member

    The response by the AMA seemed overly aggressive, to the point where it seems fearful. Podiatry has huge potential (above posts have indicated a number of points) and its nice to see it developing.


    p.s. is it any shock that there is opposition to the break up of a monopoly? weather the storm
     
  19. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, they do have a point when you read this kind on thing.

    (pasted from Australian Doctor online)

    As potential new drug prescribers, podiatrists need to be twice as competent to be considered half as good. If the diagnosis is wrong, the the treatment will as best be ineffectual, and at worst dangerous.

    Comments like this reflect badly on all of us...

    LL
     
  20. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Yes but we all know that article is a fabricated lie, Sydney Podiatrists will NEVER have prescribing rights!!!

    ;)

    Maybe I should write into the Australian Doctor Online and relay the story that I seen a patient earlier this morning who came to me after being fed up that her GP had ignored her pleas for help regarding her heel pain - she had it for 3 months, told her GP the first week - he placed her on mobic and told her it would go away, then when that didn't work he placed her on panadeine forte and told her it would go away.

    When she came to see me a quick ultrasound showed 2 intra-substance tears of 7mm and 4mm in length - and now she is in that much pain she can hardly walk.

    That GP has done an excellent job of prescribing her medications she didn't require and most likely contributing to the tears and lengthy recovery she will now endure.

    Maybe he should have just sent her to a Podiatrist in the first place and not dicked around.

    But of course this daily event gets ignored....

    As Tony states - we all need to be more than adequate we need to be excellent.
     
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