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Self education expenses and tax changes

Discussion in 'Australia' started by surfboy, Apr 14, 2013.

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Will the cap on tax deductions for work-related self-education expenses impact upon your professiona

  1. YES

    84.0%
  2. NO

    16.0%
  1. surfboy

    surfboy Active Member

    If total cost of event is 2500, including everything. I have to pay 2500, before the event, cap or no cap. I still have to fork out 2500.
    And what's your point? Irrespective of any "cap", of course you would still have to pay your "$2500" before the event. Just like you fork out for your rent, and other business expenses up front, before claiming any tax deduction later on.

    Any tax benefits come down the track when I think to chase my accountant up. For me personally, any spent over the cap of 2000 just ain't enough to drop me far enough down the tax bracket to make a dent in my return, or for me to care.
    Another faulty comment. It has nothing to do with you dropping far enough down a tax bracket to make a dent in your return.

    Let's look at this objectively: Say you spend $6000 a year on education activities including an overseas conference.

    Under the allowance proposed in the $2000 cap, you must first earn this $6000 in your clinic before then spending it all on educational activities, whilst then paying an extra $1200 in your income tax at the marginal rate!!!.

    Sure, education is unquestionably an investment in your skills. But you are basically being taxed extra simply for participating in work related education !!! Anybody who cannot see the problem with this, just does not understand.!
     
  2. Deka08

    Deka08 Active Member

    Ok surfboy, nice to make your aquaintance.
    Let me take a step back.
    Your first post in this thread asked for people's thoughts on this matter. Here are my thoughts;
    I don't earn enough to spend 6000 on CPD or overseas conferences. So the first thing I look for is affordability, right now, not down the track, or how it will affect me later, but right now.
    Right now, and in the past, I rarely would spend over 2000 on CPD. Due to earnings etc, I have to be creative, and I spend less on conferences and put more time into quality improvement, local events run by the state association, web based learning, etc.
    So, saying that, a cap of 2000 on expenses versus no cap, is not really going to make any differences to how I go about planning for CPD. If I go over by a few hundred, I just don't care because its probably worth the experience, and not worth my blood pressure points worrying about it. If you are able to, and can afford to spend 6000 going overseas for good CPD, then yes, I understand you will be affected financially by this impost. (For what it's worth - not much - if I made loads, I still wouldn't care about a cap). Further, to your retorts to my tax comments, that's cool man, I have no claims to being knowledgable in that realm, my accountant probably dumbs it down for me, or just waves me away because he knows I am not committed to learning tax.
    So, to summarise, the proposed changes to this bit of taxation regulation, will not really affect me because I rarely go over the 2000.
    I personally would love to go to a biomechanics summer school in the uk, I hear good things. That is part of a 2 or 3 year cpd plan for me. They seem to come up each year. But for the last 2 years I have not been able to afford to (time off, not just the coin needed to go), and now my wife is having a baby in the next week or 2. So I ain't going anywhere, coin or no coin. Summer school off for another year.
    I would also like again reiterate that you asked for others thoughts on this. You have received them. Some agree, some disagree, makes the world go round and all that. I don't feel I am wrong, I have a different stroke, cos I am a different folk. Sorry if my thought s are different to yours. If you would like people to only post because they agree with you then maybe you should start with something like - "only post if your as outraged as i am", or "don't angry up my blood by stating your opposition to my staunch view point." You need to understand that not everyone walks around in surfboys shoes.
    Relax man, according to the CPD info on here, you get great creds for starting up stimulating threads. The way this is going, you don't even need to leave the front door and you've crossed the line with half a year to spare.
    Take care
     
  3. björn

    björn Active Member

    I have browsed most of the posts in this three pages, and I lean towards the cap being a good idea.

    On one hand, I know that pods and continuing education is quite an impost an the costs associated with it are ridiculous. The upcoming Aust.Pod Conference in Sydney for non members at $2500 approx? Ridiculous. Part timers too- same CPD requirements, but the income earned is not usually in the stratosphere.

    On the other hand, a client of mine, a specialist accountant to health professionals told me the "average" specialist yearly income is about $700-800k a year. Public sector I believe is around $400 + and some orthopods in excess of $1m!! FOr them, the whinging is about not being able to claim those overseas holidays as tax deductions.

    I personally have nothing wrong with a cap- but let's say make it $4 or $5k. At least it limits complete rorting of whole trips, whilst still easily covering "real" conference expenses to one major, even overseas conference
     
  4. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
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  5. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
  6. fastpoose

    fastpoose Guest

    Hear hear!:craig:
     
  7. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Didn't quite read through the rest of the thread huh? :sinking:
     
  8. surfboy

    surfboy Active Member

    The remainder of the thread only reinforces Trevor's post, Master Bowles. Trevor has indeed summed it up perfectly.
    Hear, Hear!!!
     
  9. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member


    :deadhorse:
     
  10. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
  11. LuckyLisfranc

    LuckyLisfranc Well-Known Member

  12. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Microsoft changed their DRM policy because the internets went wild....maybe this thread can make the government change its CPS tax policies! Power to the people!
     
  13. surfboy

    surfboy Active Member

    Is the tide of public opinion beginning to turn you, dear Paul?
     
  14. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
  15. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    No I was taking the piss........
     
  16. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    Pyne weighs in to study expenses fight
    Apparently, 87% of people making claims earn ≤$80K/yr
     
  17. phil

    phil Active Member

    And that's the thing! We're not all orthopods making $400,000 each year.

    I live in rural Qld. A round trip to anywhere is at least $400- $500. I could easily spend $2000 to attend one weekend workshop in Brisbane/ Sydney. I sure appreciate being able to claim that back as a business expense.

    If Australia wants quality professionals, then let them claim their CPD as a tax exemption.
     
  18. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Apparently about 87% of medical people lie about their income! ;)

    Where is that statement in the reference above Craig? Its asking me to Login - i'm not paying for something.... oh wait a minute ;)
     
  19. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    But how much does that $2000 investment earn you in the long run?
     
  20. phil

    phil Active Member

    Paul, to put it simply, if I can claim CPD as a tax deduction, I can do more CPD, cause it costs me less.

    More CPD make me smarter podiatrist. Smarter good.

    Therefore, if Australia wants well trained professionals, then don't tax CPD.
     
  21. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    I'm not disputing that - I am asking a simple question - if you do good quality CPD doesn't it make you a better practitioner who can earn more off those skills and have less medico legal issues due to your proficiency?

    The fact of the matter is you gotta earn it to claim it right?

    There are no statistics I am aware of that shows Podiatrists in Australia do more CPD if they can claim it as a tax deduction. In fact even when CPD is FREE Podiatrists in Australia (especially NSW) still find reasons not attend CPD events. The face of continuing education is dramatically changing and I think there is going to be (and there should be) a divisive line set between day to day CPD education for clinical practice and the very different set of circumstances where one is advancing their professional career with higher degrees such as Masters or PhD. Maybe this is the catalyst required for this to happen?
     
  22. Deka08

    Deka08 Active Member

    I challenge the idea that to be well trained professionals, we need to spend over $2000, every year to do so. I rarely do so, and feel like I have evolved my practice better since the changes to compulsory CPD have come about.
    I think the next "big thing" around the corner will be practice accreditation similar to GP clinics, and this CPD cap will seem like a non-issue if accreditation rolls around.
     
  23. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    If its implimented by anyone but AHPRA practice accreditation means didley squat - much like the "Accredited Podiatrists Program"......
     
  24. Tuckersm

    Tuckersm Well-Known Member

  25. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    ...because Rudd is now taxing personal savings accounts instead!
     
  26. surfboy

    surfboy Active Member

    Just so everyone knows, Joe Hockey has officially dumped this proposed legislation a few weeks ago. The majority of us here knew it was a farcical and irrational idea. Anyway, I'm off to plan my next overseas conference.. Congratulations to everyone who was prepared to take a stand, it has been defeated.

    Hopefully this has been an educational experience, Paul, and that you have now changed your outlook for the better :)
     
  27. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    In the other thread:

    Nope. You whinge about the $450 cost per year for your professional registration (which allows you to work, earn a living and contribute to the community) but cant wait to plan your expensive tax deductible jaunt overseas.

    True colours!
     
  28. APodC

    APodC Active Member

    To close this discussion, we partnered with the AMA and a raft of other organisations to fund the ScrapTheCap campaign. We presented to treasury along side the AMA, engineers, accountants and others. We are on record as saying it's bad policy.

    The Liberal government scrapped the tax cap as a result of a strong united voice against the cap.
     
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