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What's in a name

Discussion in 'Break Room' started by Cameron, Sep 21, 2005.

  1. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member


    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    Netizens

    Craig, quite rightly reminded us.

    >the UK is pretty much the only country in the world in which the term 'chiropody' is still in use. (UK Theme)

    Ironically by chance I overheard a radio advert yesterday in WEstern Australia for insurance (well known copmpany) and the narrative was based on what was a specialist. You are probably ahead of me already, and a shirpodist is someone who looks after feet in WA. Well according to the advertising media.

    Never a dull moment .

    Cameron
     
  2. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
  3. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    Shiropodist!

    Hi Cameron, Craig,

    You don't mean I got it right after all??? Well thats worth another cup of coffee to steady the nerves!

    Regards,

    Colin. (Speechless, never mind a dull moment!).

    PS. Admin. I've just put a one on this very same subject, The Modern Shiropodist et al 'FHP. Yellow Pages or New Foot Health Classification' on UK Forum. Handled right that one could blow a gasket too!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2005
  4. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    Nice one Craig

    Cheers
    Cameron
     
  5. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    Netizens

    Just put this up on my foot talk blog* <http://foottalk.blogspot.com/>

    *The blog does contain adult material so be aware if you are easily offended with four lettered words like "foot" and "toes".


    One of the greatest mysteries of our time is not how do foot orthoses work or can corns be cured but how do you pronounce the word chiropody. Is it shirr-opody, chirr-opody, k-ropody or kye-ropody? People seem to gain impish delight from wrapping their tongue around their dentures as they spit out the vowels from this four syllable conundrum. Even twenty years after the term was put to rest in this country no podiatrist is immune from this verbal assault. The word first entered the English language in the 18th century, when a corn cutter by the name of David Low wanted to write the definitive text on care of the feet. He did so by plagiarising L'Art de Soigner les Pieds (1781), a best selling treatise on corn cutting, written by Nicholas Laurent Lafrost. To avoid detection Lowe translated the script and renamed the works Chiropodologia. Unfortunately for semantic purists he made a fatal error by combining both Greek and Latin prefixes. Chiro is a Greek prefix meaning hand and foot; and Pod the Latin prefix for foot. No one is really sure whether the new study was treatment of the hand by the foot or visa versa. Most scholars have accepted Lowe intended to promote care of the foot by the hand. Ch is written as an x in Greek and pronounced with a silent h. So if it is all Greek to you so far the word should be pronounced iropodist. X when translated to English is becomes a harsh sounding K. The proper and correct pronunciation is therefore kiropodist. We witness the same translation in Xmas which is not a modern abbreviation for the convenience of greetings card manufacturers but instead a celebration of K mass, i.e. the mass of Christ. During the 1930's, chiropody and chiropody services within the United Kingdom became very popular and was patronised by the Royal Family. On a visit to the Edinburgh School of Chiropody and Foot Clinic, the royal researchers were concerned at the origins of chiropody and set to out find an alternative derivation. Chiron was a Greek God a centaur, half man half horse. He was a tutor to many Greek heroes and taught Asclepius his medical arts. Chiron lived as recluse at the bottom of Mount Pelion, and dedicated his life to caring for the crippled. However after his half brother Pholus was killed by Heracles, Chiron was wounded by a stray arrow. His wounds were painful and he agreed to exchange his immortality with Prometheus so he could die, peacefully. Zeus immortalised the centaur and renamed him Sagittarius. Chiron remains the patron saint of shoe makers.

    What ever happened to the despicable David Lowe? Well he invented hotels. Now there is somewhere you can put your feet up and rest.


    McDonald M 1996 Star myth: tales of the constellations New York: Friedman Group 83-85.
    Runting EGV 1932 Some phrases of chiropody in great Britain Chiropody Jottings London Faber & Faber 204-214.
     
  6. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    Nice one Cameron,

    Cheers,

    Colin.
     
  7. Cameron,
    What do you think?

    Podi=foot (Greek or Latin)
    giatros=physician Greek Like-iatrogenic (caused by the physician)
    So... Podiatrist=foot physician

    Maybe chiropodist =foot surgeon [ from the antique word chirurgeon (sort of an early type of physician, surgeon)] and podi ,again, meaning foot.

    In Indiana USA podiatrist has been the official title since the 1920s. The now Scholl college of Podiatric Medicine was called the the Illinois college of Chiropody and
    Foot( maybe it was Pedic) Surgery until it changed to the Illinois College of Podiatry in maybe 1962. It gave out the diploma "Doctor of Surgical Chiropody" until that year.

    Yours in etymology and podology,

    Tony Jagger
     
  8. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    Tony

    That would be my understanding too.

    I did read somewhere in the Society of Chripodists journal archives of an interest group of chiropodists in Scotand who called themselves podiatrists. The Chiropodist started just before the Great War, but my memory is failing and I cannot say whether the Scots predated the Yanks. However, whoever got there first, it would certainly be for the reasons you state.

    Cheers
    Cameron
     
  9. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    Chiropodist!

    Hi All,

    A possible follow on from above? Before I knew any better I derived the following from the following!

    A possible derivation of Chiropody/Chiropodist could come from the Greek used in Matthew 18:8 where we have,

    "If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into the eternal fire."

    Here we have,

    Hand = Cheir. (NT.).

    Hand = Cheiro (Classical).

    Hands = Cheiras. (NT.).

    Foot = Pous. (NT.).

    Feet = Podas. NT.).

    Chiropodist = Cheir - o - Podas.

    Chi.? NT.=Chi Hard as in Loch! Is it K-Kia. or X-Shi. Our possible X As in sound the English soft "Z" I wonder? I think Loch has it!

    NB. Maybe someone who knew a little New Testament Greek (NT.) at the turn of the Nineteenth/Twentieth Century perhaps?

    NT. Greek as it was spoke - BC/AD.!

    Classical Greek. As the Ancient Greeks wrote BC.

    Sources,

    1. The Zondervan Parallel New Testament! Ed.1975/1980.

    2. An Intermediate Greek English Lexicon. Liddell & Scott. Classical Attic Greek! Ed.1889/1992

    Sounds better than I'm the 'Hands and Feetman', still get "Oh it's the Footman sometimes!" In days of yore when it was the practice of the Medicals to bamboozle the troops perhaps!

    Regards,

    Colin.

    PS. Maimed or crippled I hope that wasn't what was happening to our Ancestors reminding them of 'hands & feet' as they practiced on their patients per chance for the first time when someone thought this one up? David Low perhaps Cameron.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2005
  10. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    Very interesting. It certainly gives substance to the alternative pronunciation of shiropodist.

    As to Mathew, he may have been using a veiled euphemism for fornication and masturbation. I am sure it is not a sin to practive podiatry. Although it may be purgatory to become a practitioner. :D

    Cameron
     
  11. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    To True Cameron,

    A new slant perhaps on it then again you would have been in danger of being burned at the stake when David Low was around, Come to think of it so would I, An Episcopal Heretic, or something like that! (The Verse I mean!).

    Cheers,

    Colin

    PS. How about that I could spell it, what am I doing here at Two O'Clock in the morning??? Do you know that is the best expositions of that verse I have ever heard. No, if I came out with that in Church I would probably be put in for counsellings or something!

    PPS. Practicing Podiatry round here, now then Cameron I'm not so sure about that!
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2005
  12. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    The Cool Light of Day!

    Hi Cameron,

    Meant to say, although I probably have produced quite a strong argument for Shi.' and you can see how the alternative for Chi as Ki pronounced as 'loCH' can be arrived at. New Testament rather than Classical Greek supports 'loCH' as the development of the language reached at that time! It would be interesting to hear what a real Greek of today might just perhaps make of this here?

    I know it is a minor thing now that Podiatrist is now the vogue. Tony even had to work to get to where common sense says he should be in his conclusion on Podiatry! In the UK. we now know what Chiropodist/Podiatrist means courtesy of the HPC. for us! But it would be nice to be able to tell a patient how it should be pronounced, you know! If he doesn't know what to call himself, seeds of doubt re. what may follow, perhaps?

    Regards,

    Colin.

    PS. After giving our patient a rendering of that lot above, do you know she has forgotten all about her corn, or whatever she arrived with!

    PPS. Tony, I know you are moving towards Foot-physician over there where you live! But I have tended towards,

    Duo Podas - For Two Feet.

    Triste - A rendering of, 'Sadly severe' on the end of a few practitioners name descriptions, (Latin rather than Greek!) nowadays?

    Podas - trist? Podia - trist sounds better! feet with sadly severe tendency if you do not get it right???

    I could think of a few of our now retired Consultants who would have fitted that bill when talking to you here in a consultation!
     
  13. Don ESWT

    Don ESWT Active Member

    Christ pronounced as Christ
    Chiropody pronounced as Chiropody
    You would not say shrist for Christ
    That how dad described it

    We then get into podiatrist - peditrist- poditrist peaditrist the list can go on
     
  14. Felicity Prentice

    Felicity Prentice Active Member

    I recall a lecturer of mine telling the extraordinary story of an appearance he made in Court (of law) one day. It was early days for the use of the term "Podiatry" in Australia (we were mainly referring to ourselves as Chiropodists-with-a-K at that time). He stood in the witness box, and the prosecutor was establishing his identity/name/occupation etc with a series of questions.

    When is came to profession the good lawyer, ignorant of the pronounciation of the new term for our work, calmly stated:

    "And you are, in fact Sir, a Pedarast, are you not?"

    Silence in the Court.

    Cough, cough, mumble, my lecturer replied "I think you will find that it is pronounced Podiatrist". Phew! As to his personal leanings I can not attest, but the profession as a whole escaped an indictable offence that day!

    cheers,

    Felicity
     
  15. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    Podiatrist?

    Hi Felicity,

    It was not just that solicitor in your court. I had to sit down and try to work out how to pronounce it first time I saw it, seemed to have little or nothing to do with English. Got it right on the third attempt, with exclamation, who dreamt that one up??? A Scotsman perhaps according to Cameron, I think we should blame him! The Scotsman not Cameron, then again you never can tell?

    It was all Greek to me!

    Cheers,

    Colin.
     
  16. It took many, many months educating the patients who attended the outpatient clinic in my first post, that podiatrist and proctologist were two distinctly different entities, although some may say they have remarkable parallels.
     
  17. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    Christ not Shrist?

    Hi Don,

    Cannot argue with that as long as we stick to the Greek and not the Hebrew!

    Cheers,

    Colin.
     
  18. Don ESWT

    Don ESWT Active Member

    If we have to blame someone it might have to be the KELTS or is that the CELTS they/we've have been around long enough some 20,000 years or more. Something like that.
    The English language was made up of several languages over several hundred years, and even now in the 21st Century we cannot get the spelling and pronuncation/grammar correct.

    One is thing you the educators MUST do is to forget the political correct get back to the 3 R's reading (w)riting and a(R)ithematic.

    I apologise for any spelling mistake and grammer/grammar in this note

    When teacher cannot correct spelling and grammer the children of the future have no hope. Where did education go off the rails.

    About 10 years ago a teacher had the nerve to correct the spelling and grammar of one of her students (Me and me frind) corrected to (My friend and I)
    The parents stormed into the office and demand to why. (Me and my missus been taught that way). He should have said ( My wife and I .......). But then again there should have been NO teacher/parent confrontation, if some goody two shoe said it might hurt the childs self esteem if there spelling and grammar was corrected and then the parent of that child would not have picked up the incorrect grammar of the parent.

    In other words a mistake was not corrected in the past and it has been carried forward into the present or is that the future and forever, until they go and apply for a job and they cannot spell, add up without the aid of a calculator or little or no telephone communication skills.

    Donald Iain Scott
     
  19. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    The Celts and those Brutes the Gail's/Gauls/Gaels!

    Hi Donald,

    I was going to say an aside here, but really I think that one of yours is spot on.

    My immediate reflex action is going to be, "Education fell apart, when those dozy so-and-so's got rid of the Grammar School. We all were on the slippery slope! In my time if you did not get to the Grammar, Such as myself, I had to do two years at night school whilst still at school to catch up, and University much, much later after Technical Night School! (I think that is why I have some of them on here riding high from time to time when I put one of my long specials in here! They expect silly grammar, the fool's! I like the Germans sometimes? NO I mean the Germans like myself forget sometimes to put the Verb in from time to time in the sentences, I mean! (Heat rising somewhere, perhaps!).

    If you want to insult the Celts call them the Gaels/Gauls/Gail's, I've just seen that somewhere I think? It was on the Romans. They were not to happy with them either, if they were their friends they were Celts, if they were the enemy they were the Gail's/Gaul's/Gaels , now where have I heard that attitude before on here!?! !?! ls it no correct?!?

    By the way my ordered mind, you know, Kelt's/Gaul's/Celts, I here on the other UK. Forum of David Hollands that the EU.,(God forgiven me for typing it!), is going to producing there own English as the Common language! All the 'SS's and letter 'c,z''s dust-binned, I think if I remember rightly I ended up with the Wah Pigeon as a conclusion! I wonder if it was an early April fool???

    However, back to that which is in hand!?! In certain sections of my town, sorry city? The teachers from the deep south have difficulty in understanding the parent never mind keep up with his argument and answering him, (A slight exaggeration perhaps, but there could still be a certain amount of truth in it!). They will have learned the Hendon,Milfield/Deptford or southwick ptiyyacher sorry pityacker! Local dialect? When I used to forget and open my mouth you used to get, "Are you from Darlington?" Another part of the deep south!

    My family passed on to me years ago that my Great, Great, Grandfather Bain used to lapse into the funny speech when he got excited and blew the proverbial gasket! He couldn't remember the English swear words fast enough you see and lapsed into this funny language of his, I think it defiantly was the Gaelic form from what I was told. The family full understood the gist of the meaning he was expressing though, got the point they did, every time!

    Ahh Donald, back to the point, hang on while I go outside breath the fresh air, and Cough, recap and remember what it was? Ahh that's better! A bringing of the English as it is spoke into line with the way it is written will do a lot of us a world of good! It might put a few of the English intellectual academia on the pills though, me included, and I've only irritated some of them to date, so far just a little! I have a phobia re a misspelt word, cannot spell it but know it when it is writ, (Must have been that look and learn system during the war???). Now what was that point again, are yes. Do we take the Greek as it is/was spoke New Testament Greek or as it is writ Classical Greek or should it be Geek or something like that? Re CH.=loch or Ch.=cheque, now what maid me think of money there? What a good job that it really doesn't matter now that we all are Podiatrists! Now how can we insult and corrupt that word I wonder?

    Bring back the Grammar School and all will be forgiven, what was that about City Academy I hear? "Me and my missus," "No my wife and I!" Someone in my neck of the woods is about to be arrested, no get arrested for assault!

    Regards or Cheers, (Whether we are being formal or informal here?)!

    PS. I was goant to correct grammer and speelling here but to h**l with it, we'll leave it for Admin. to do!

    PPS. Try: http://davidmhol.proboards29.com

    UK. Not Podiatry Forum:- 'Common language.'
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2005
  20. Don ESWT

    Don ESWT Active Member

    Here's some more
    " My wife just fell pregnant" The next expectant father you meet.
    "Good grammar teached here, better up the stairs". Possibly 18-19th century saying.
    "I aint gunna do that again" Anyone with their hand caught in the cookie jar.
    "Y know" Paris Hilton
    "and am" Jeff Fenech Boxer

    The list goes on.

    Don
     
  21. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    Whose Paris Hilton? It should be spelt with a 'y' not an 'i', you know! Never ending, once you get started. The Baron Hylton part of the Washington family up the road? A potted history of General Washington, joined the Americans the mad fool, you know, and won, even worse!

    Cheers,

    Colin.

    PS. Keep them coming Don getting better by the minute, much better than mine, and just think Cameron's in bed asleep, Thank G**!

    PPS. I liked the one, "fell pregnant" Far to subtle for this US. Spell Check, and Arena Censor!
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2005
  22. Don ESWT

    Don ESWT Active Member

    Talking about George Washington - 5 Mason's From Scotland went and build the White House 1799 - One was Alexander Scott - one of my distant relatives good Celtic stock.
    The White House was almost destroyed in 1812 I think and all they had to paint the building was WHITE WASH and hence it has become the "White House".

    "Good Celtic stock" - where did that one come from?


    Don
     
  23. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    Celtic Origins?

    Hi Don.,

    I do not pretend to have a great knowledge of this but I have always thought of the Celts as a crescent across northern Europe swinging into the middle and far east.

    Had one failing, they were very independent with the fighting. Individualistic in the approach to life and war! (Possibly why there are Scots all over the place?).

    The Romans and Greeks were more social animals who welded into a fighting machine in their war making! Good in tank country, not so good in obstructive warfare like the forest! Romans had a nasty accident in Northern Germany due to this. Similarly to cavalry country in India and loosing the odd army on the Northwest Frontier, Afghanistan,(British Empire of course!), but I'm sure you know most of this.

    Good Celtic stock? Not sure but it might not have been from Good Anglo-
    Saxon Stock? Might have a look at Bede he might know?

    Regards,

    Colin.

    PS. Who would like to tell us?

    1. Celtic history goes back 20,000 years I believe? Britons, they lost and were pushed west and north into Scotland, also lost in their inclusion in English History.

    2. Viking history, the Norsemen, difference with Celts, formed themselves into units because they went to sea in ships! They knew how each crewman would react, particularly the head-cases amongst them. You made sure they were in front of you facing the enemy, not behind! Effective 800AD. for three hundred years onwards? The English sometimes forget that the Normans were in fact Vikings like the Dane-Law!

    3. Anglo-Saxons of German origin their territory facing western English Coast. 500 to 1066! Came in sometimes on invitation from the Romano-Britons, Civilized Celts perhaps, King Arthur and all that? A substitute for the Roman Legions perhaps?

    I'm sure you know most of this but it might be worth inviting some on the Arena better qualified than I contribute including yourself Don.! Cameron, you started this I'm sure you can take up where I left off?

    PPS. Sorry Don. you may see less of me. Down to the Eye-Infirmary today with flashing lights and floaters! They say this is all right just old age, but I've enlarge print size on the Computers and will have to ration myself re Postings I fear, resting the eyes. Why do I hear a loud sigh of relief?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2005
  24. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    Colin

    Hope all goes well with the mince pies?

    >Celtic history goes back 20,000 years I believe? Britons, they lost and were pushed west and north into Scotland, also lost in their inclusion in English History.


    There would have to be an element of that but historians are not in total agreement. Most uphold the Scots and Celts were different like Angles and Saxons. The Scots tribe originally came from Northern Ireland and settled in the West Coast Lowlands of Scotland. No one is really sure when the Celts settled in Ireland but they would originally be a separate tribe to the Scots. A skewed view of the Celtic invasion of Britain was promulgated by 18th century historians. This related to archaeological finds of the ancient continental Gaols (called Celts). The idea of an Iron Age invasion of Ireland by the Celts is not supported by archaeological finds. The Picts were the indigenous people who lived in North Britain (Scotland) and were eventually conquered by the Scots. The kingdom of the Picts appeared during the third century AD, the first of a series of statelets which sprung up during the last years and collapse of Roman power in Britain (c.AD 410). The Picts developed through the merging of the 'tribes' of earlier times. By the ninth century the Irish (Scots) ruled the kingdom of Dalriada and merged with the Pictish kingdom to form Scotland.

    The Caucasoid population of Celts came from Turkey way and colonised much of Northern Europe including parts of France (Gaul) , parts of Wales, Ireland and eventually Scotland. The Celts were war like but more recently the underbelly of the race has revealed a sophisticated culture, capable of adaptation and hence a survivor. There is much to show the Celts were influence by the Mediterranean society but significantly different.

    There is a lady chiropodist/ archaeologist who has published her findings on different foot types from this period.

    >2. Viking history, the Norsemen, difference with Celts, formed themselves into units because they went to sea in ships! They knew how each crewman would react, particularly the head-cases amongst them. You made sure they were in front of you facing the enemy, not behind! Effective 800AD. for three hundred years onwards? The English sometimes forget that the Normans were in fact Vikings like the Dane-Law!

    To begin with the Viking invasions really affected the North and East Coast of Britian, so the association with the Celts would be low. Although as the populous integrated there would be more opportunity for conflict. When the Vikings sailed over to places like the Isle of Mann there would be more (aggressive) interactions. Although horrendous atrocities took place laterally the threat of a Viking invasion was enough to cause the people to pay ransom money. Hence today there are more English coins found in Denmark and the rest of Scandinavia than are unearthed in the UK. Towns like Danbury (The borough of the Danes), Essex were strongholds for the invading Danes, who repeatedly came back because of the affluence of the area and the limited resistance they met. In the end it was the threat that was enough and ships full of silver coins were sent to Denmark


    3. Anglo-Saxons of German origin their territory facing western English Coast. 500 to 1066! Came in sometimes on invitation from the Romano-Britons, Civilized Celts perhaps, King Arthur and all that? A substitute for the Roman Legions perhaps?

    The Romans did recruit from the countries they invaded and the prisoners they took from other racers. As Rome was so far from the end of the Empire the Romans also incorporated their crafts into the indigenous populous. Hence sandal making became universal and waterproofed footwear (from Gaul) was integrated into the Roman crafts. Intermarriage also played a part and many Romans married local girls. Pontius Pilot mother may have been a Scot's girl. The idea of a northern sweep of invasion is however considered a bit of a romantic myth. Britain has always absorbed invaders and been home to multiple peoples. Integration has often been done by stealth as opposed to dominance.

    We all tend to live with the idea we are something special but the likely hood, is we are really all the same. I Scotland that sentiment is expressed as "We are all Jock Thampson's bairns."

    Cameron
     
  25. Don ESWT

    Don ESWT Active Member

    My dad now 92 studied with the great George Bain's who rediscovered Celtic Art in the early 20th Century. Dad has lectured on Celtic Art, Religion and History at Sydney University up until the late 90's. He is a wealth of knowledge when it come to the Celts. We both do our own designs, Dad does, knotwork borders, spirals and zoomorphics, I do Key patterns and mazes.

    20,000 years ago moved across Europe North South East and West. East as far as Afganistan ( There is a groups of non Asiatic living there to this day), West to North America but when??

    When the first Scots went to North America (1500-1700's) there was a tribe of Mic Mac Indians (NOT SURE OF SPELLING) who could speak Gaealic. Where did they learn the language?

    All the great things came out of Scotland and I am biased

    "Was Like Us" if you know what I mean!!!!


    Don Scott
     
  26. Angel

    Angel Member

    Hello Don

    You may be interested in www.acorneducation.com he is a descendant of Mungo Park an explorer who navigated the African river Niger. Note the Iron age shoes that he wears.

    Angel
     
  27. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    A Common Count?

    Hi Don,

    I hope you have got your Dad's work down on paper or disk/tape whatever! Sounds valuable information in the Local History Section at least!

    Attachments of lectures on here in this Forum perhaps? I wonder whether it's worth approaching Admin on a Historic Aside perhaps?

    George Bain, Tell me more, I did not specialize in Scottish History always meant to since my patriarch must have been a Norse-viking, In a ' Clan name origins book' Bain means the Fair faced one, (Could only be Viking stock!)! Translated into Norman French I believe as the, 'in need of a wash' - Bathroom etc. typical? Traveling down from the far north to Normandy they could be right, they might well have needed a one?

    George, Two of them in the last three generation in mine, had to have James for my Dad, hedging their bet's perhaps? I had to be Colin because of all the Georges flying around? Colin from Collinson, No originality shown in my family? Still if it had been the main family name just think about it Charlton Bain! Every time I crossed the border I would have to shoot myself!!! When the full moon is out the cattle used to be reeved in I believe?

    An old story I heard when I was a boy was that when we counted from one to ten in the old dialect in my side of the country and our friends in Lakeland did the same! The native Indian of America could understand us, his counting was the same. Is this a Myth anybody,

    1. Was it redheaded Scotsmen teaching Red Indians how to count cattle on the American Plains or did they already know how to count in old Norse?

    2. Did they bring the counting with them from wherever or were they there when America fell off the edge of Europe? Captured or assimilated Vikings from Vinland, perhaps?

    3. The Indians were originally Celts? Now there's a stretch of the imagination for you?

    Celtic Art? Would be good to see it here if you could attach it, and from the rest of the world perhaps also??? Tell me did the American Indian art contain any of our ancient art!

    Is there any stories or meaning woven into the patterns I wonder???

    Any connections with 'Cup and Rings'?

    Puts the 'cut and come' into the shade doesn't it? Broaden the mind, what, and I wonder did the Scotsman Clamor their's? No not that you fool, I mean the corns, you know?

    Hi Cameron,

    You always learn something when you listen to someone new discussing a historical truth from a different perspective, thank you!

    Must stop, right eye beginning to pull again, not the retina, the Iris. It's held on by gel seemly! Not so firm, no nerves so flashing lights when it is abused as we get older it seems! Well, according to the Sunderland Eye Infirmary and they should know you know!!! So to take several months to firm up again! Must not shake my head violently. Went out into the garden 2.00 am. Saturday morning thinking it was the Police-helicopter. Sky looked like a meteor shower, beautiful! At least the kitchen fluorescent fitting was not about to catch fire! Then I realized it was me. Great show though, but it had to be straight down to the Infirmary in the morning! I wonder whether their eye anesthetic would do anything on toes???

    Cheers,

    Colin, (Excuse the spelling, eye pulling and telling me to stop!).
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2005
  28. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    Take care Colin and a speedy recovery. When I was 18 I suffered peri-phlibitis in my left eye and then a detachment of the retina. Same story of psychadellic light shows but in mono as opposed to stereo. My parents were suspicious I had been "tripping: but no such luck. I went blind in the eye and it happened just at the time of my 'Highers". The colours on the geography paper spilled over the table and I came out of school with a handful of poor academic results. Well that is my story anyway. Chiropody's gain was fashion design's loss as I had to quickly change career direction. To add insult to injury I was colour blind in the seeing eye and that was a requisite for entry to chiropody. Just as well they never asked me otherwise I may have become an accountant.

    As a young man I always took consolation from the French saying that, "in the Kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is King".


    Best wishes

    Cameron
     
  29. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    Now why should that remind me of the Tripods Cameron?

    Colin.

    PS. Listening to your story Cameron it puts my little problems in the shade. Fortunately I was promised it was the front of the eye not the back! Still must stop and switch off. Eye patch time, and ship ahoy, shiver my timbers!
     
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