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Age Concern

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by tracy lockwood, Aug 16, 2012.


  1. Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    Why does this country allow untrained and unqualified people to cut older person toenails? My business is being severely affected by this free or £10 per cut service and I am disgusted that this has been allowed to done and supported by SOCAP to which I belong. It undermines our profession and income, anyone can cut toenails but not everyone can be a Podiatrist. Anyone else have this problem as my home visiting service I provide as 95 percent of my customers are housebound?:boohoo:
     
  2. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Hello Tracy,
    First of all I don't see a Tracy Lockwood on the HPC register, so I assume that you are using a pseudonym? Nothing wrong with that.

    You asked
    The answer is, because it is legal.

    I am not a SCP member so I am not going to get into a discussion about SCP policy

    The tone of your post gives a clue to why your business isn't working.

    If you are the boss the only place you should be pointing the finger, is in the mirror.

    Ask yourself why your business is being impacted by a cheap nail-cutting service? Did you really go to Uni for 3 years to compete in the lower level of the footcare market? What have you done to market your podiatry skills?

    How did you approach setting up your business? Did you research and validate the market, finding out what potential customers valued and were willing to pay? Or did you just start giving out flyers and hope the 'phone would start to ring?
    Does your area really need another footcare person?

    Have you got a skill that will insulate you from the competition - a USP (unique selling point)?

    It sounds to me that you need to skill up on business management and marketing. I believe the SCP produce a Private Practice Handbook which is available to all Members and is a mine of information, covering all aspects of private practice. I would join your local Branch and find out about the opportunities for networking.

    I would also suggest joining the Federation of Small Businesses. This not only gives you networking opportunities, members can also get free business banking at the Co-op Bank

    You may think I sound unduly harsh and this is probably not what you want to hear, but running a business is not a hobby. It needs skills and application and it is up to you whether or not you want to apply yourself to this end.

    Good luck


    Catfoot
     
  3. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Tracy,

    Sorry to hear about your present experiences. Unfortunately I believe you are not on your own. I have seen my predominantly surgery based practice decline by 30%, and while the business is still viable it does not provide me with the income I was used to. Fortunately I am near to retirement and made good decisions in the years of plenty. I do sometimes think of after retirement offering a stupidly cheap dom service to give the price cutters a taste of their own medicine, but probably will not.

    There have been heated debates on this site in the past, namely over SCP support for Age Concern nail service and the Societies failure to negotiate a 'deal' with them, debates about the SCP's support for 'assistant Podiatrists', and the issue of functional closure.

    On all of these issues the powers that be on Council failed to recognize the financial impact on generalist PPs.

    This was one of the main factors for my leaving the Society.

    I'm sorry I do not have any answers for you. While David H and me often clash on details we also often agree on principles. On this occasion I think he is right when in the thread on PP viability he says we have to examine our business practices and taking into account our talents see where we sit in the market.

    Everyone will have a different answer, I am pursuing self sufficiency.

    Bob
     
  4. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Ca foot if I was Tracy I would certainly think you sound unduly harsh.

    If you are the boss the only place you should be pointing the finger, is in the mirror.

    While there may be some truth in that try telling it to those bosses who find themselves in a changed environment and very little room to manoeuvre.

    Ask yourself why your business is being impacted by a cheap nail-cutting service? Did you really go to Uni for 3 years to compete in the lower level of the footcare market? What have you done to market your podiatry skills?

    Why is nail cutting the lower level of footcare? Do you work in the NHS?

    How did you approach setting up your business? Did you research and validate the market, finding out what potential customers valued and were willing to pay? Or did you just start giving out flyers and hope the 'phone would start to ring?
    Does your area really need another footcare person?


    Tracy has been in business for 17 years, how she set it up in the first place is I suggest irrelevant. It may be fair to criticise her for not evaluating her practice every year.

    It sounds to me that you need to skill up on business management and marketing. I believe the SCP produce a Private Practice Handbook which is available to all Members and is a mine of information, covering all aspects of private practice.


    I would strongly disagree; an O level business studies text would be better.

    . I would join your local Branch and find out about the opportunities for networking.

    I would also suggest joining the Federation of Small Businesses. This not only gives you networking opportunities, members can also get free business banking at the Co-op Bank


    How do you know she does not already do this? Banking with the Co-Op bank is so cheap about £3.50 a month it would not justify the membership fee.

    Not I think one of your most helpful posts.

    Bob
     
  5. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    REG,
    I stand corrected, I did not see Tracy's other post before I responded to this one, and I also apologise if I seem to be talking about you, Tracy, as if you are not here.

    I still believe that the responsibility for the viability of any business is down to the boss. Small businesses such as Tracy's ( and I am assuming that it is a small business) are far better placed to respond to market fluctuations that large unweildy corporations. They have the flexibility to diversify, evolve and adapt to a changing market-place. It’s crucial for any business to understand how their customers’ needs have changed and what this means for them.

    Yes, IMO (social) nail cutting alone is the lower end of the footcare market, but, a patient who makes an initial contact purely for that service may well be able to benefit from a practitioners additional skill-bank.

    I would suggest that in Tracy's case the opportunities presented have not been capitalised on, otherwise how could Age UK 'take' her patients away?

    I'm not going to advise Tracy as to what she should do, as it is up to her to re-evaluate her business plan and implement some short-term strategies to stay solvent while she considers her long-term options. Blaming AgeUK/SCP/weather and the price of fish is not a useful option.

    If you have any positive suggestions for Tracy REG I am sure she would be pleased to hear them

    regards


    Catfoot
     
  6. Many thanks for posts even if some are misinformed and negative,
    Firstly YES I haven't used my full name as I have met prejudice over the many years I have been in business . I am HPC registered and have many qualifications which include a business degree, two Masters degrees amongst many.

    I do look in the mirror and ask myself what I am doing wrong now, as I have been successfully in business for over the last 20 years which has constantly revolved around teaching, clinics and home visits. What I am peeved about is how Age Concern has eroded at my business base over the last year and it's devastating that ALL patients lost have been purely on cost NOT me or my professionalism. I am just finding it difficult. My age range in patients vary from 6 to 106 and I constantly review my training, my business plan, CPD and wonder if only making ends meet was worth it...

    Just another bad day, trying to be positive but going to SOCAP branch meetings where I am met with bad comments is not for me anymore. By the way I did first train with the SMAE , many years ago but since then converted my diplomas to a BSc, and recently an MSc so some of you may know who I am!!!!!!

    I love my work, work hard at constantly evolving and ultimately helping people to remain mobile. I make no apologies from my humble beginnings .....
     
  7. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Catfoot I think you are on your back foot!

    If you read my post #3 you will see I said I do not have any answers, and that every business is unique. My answer is to become self-sufficient thus reducing my need for money. I doubt most people have my resources.

    Do not agree with your assumptions about small and large businesses, again it depends how they are structured.

    You say

    It’s crucial for any business to understand how their customers’ needs have changed and what this means for them.


    Ok lets run this one up the flagpole. Customers changed needs are to economise hence want a cheaper service. What would your response be?


    Yes, IMO (social) nail cutting alone is the lower end of the footcare market, but, a patient who makes an initial contact purely for that service may well be able to benefit from a practitioners comprehensive skill-bank.

    Mmm, where to start, no on second thoughts let it stand as a fine example of pure guess work.

    Easy, they are cheap or free, the chattering classes chat and the chatee feels stupid for paying too much so goes to them.

    I'm not going to advise Tracy as to what she should do, as it is up to her to re-evaluate her business plan and implement some short-term strategies to stay solvent while she considers her long-term options.

    Good because so far you have not helped her. Do you honestly not think she has been doing that, I know I have, what do you think long term options will be for the high priced PP?

    Blaming AgeUK/SCP/weather and the price of fish is not a useful option.

    Is Tracy blaming anyone or just pointing out the truth. Age UK are not innocent in this matter, they are a money making Social Enterprise. The SCP though warned about their unconditional compliance went ahead with their endorsement.

    The price of fish is often weather dependent.

    Bob
     
  8. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Hi Tracy,

    I think I've probably said enough about SOCAP for the time being, but it would appear that unfortunately your treatment at branch level is not an isolated case.

    With regard to your business, Catfoot did make a valid point on establishing and advertising your unique selling point. Given your CV, I would imagine that you do enjoy/excel in a particular aspect of Podiatry, so tell your pts and other health professionals about it. From personal experience, I would say that my professional reputation amongst local GPs (who refer many pts to me) and others resulted from my communicating, usually by letter, and demonstrating an in-depth knowledge of lower limb pathology (in my case, stuff about skin).

    We all experience bad days, yet you sound motivated and love your work. IMO, that is the driving force to maintain a thriving practice. Hope it improves for you soon.

    Cheers,
    Bel
     
  9. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    As heart breaking as it is to have business taken away from you purely on the grounds of price, it is a sign of the times.

    Can you/do you want to compete on price - probably not. I would rather see half the number of clients and charge twice as much as my competitor for a truly excellent service. I am not saying that you do not already provide that, but targetting things that you can do that your competitor cannot, up-skilling(if possible) and possibly giving a little more to your clients(the extra mile) will get you clients who are willing to pay the extra money for something better.

    I would wholeheartedly agree with Belinda in that regular GP contact informing them of your clients status will ensure that you are the first port of call when the GP comes across something that needs treatment in the foot department.

    Good luck
     
  10. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Tracy I believe I do know who you are but will respect your wish to use a pseudonym.

    However I now doubt the genuineness of your post.

    I've always wondered why people hold dual membership of Podiatry bodies?
     
  11. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    I think I know who you are Tracy,

    The MSc gives it away.

    Strangely (although I'm happy to knock the SCP when I think it's justified) I could tell a similar story about a Branch meeting of the opposition - but not the membership who were, as has been my invariable experience, very friendly.

    I only attended one meeting. I thought £30 was a bit steep for a day meeting, although lunch was included. The (Orthopod) speaker was not great, and told a few porkies. It maybe didn't help that his powerpoint presentation couldn't be delivered because the management hadn't arranged a projector. Although that happened to me once at an SCP meeting - they "lost the key to the cupboard". They were most put out to find that I could speak quite well without slides:D. I thought I made a helpful suggestion about reducing autoclave servicing costs, but evidently not.

    I won't be returning anytime soon........
     
  12. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    REG,
    You have lost me with that last cryptic post ( 10#)

    I was going to respond to some of the points you flagged up in 7# but it appears you have picked up your bucket and spade and left the sandpit.

    Anyway, you mentioned price as a factor, you said

    There are always those who want the 'cheap & cheerful' option. They are operating purely with a price motive and won't change. I don't believe any business should compromise it's quality of products or service to entice these people through the door.

    This is one situation where I don't believe in giving the customer what they want. These clients have no loyalty and aren't an asset to the business.

    That's all for now

    regards

    Catfoot
     
  13. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    David so we both think we ‘know’ Tracy, you if we are right should have quite a close relationship?

    The thread is titled Age Concern, should be Age UK but?

    It could all be bought back to Mark’s ‘unified profession’ debate?

    While the profession concentrates more on scoring points off of each other ‘we’ allow others in.

    I do not agree that the future of the profession is in the ‘elite’ practitioner nor the ‘diversified’ practitioner, but protecting the generalist from which the ‘others’ can grow.

    It’s wrong that this debate is taking part on two threads usually Admin sorts that out.

    Simply put this thread could be ’has Age UK made significant inroads into the UK footcare market?’ or more precisely ‘have Social enterprises achieved a significant sector of the footcare market’.

    I know Mr Batt has views on it I doubt the chair of the SCP cares.

    Addressing the issues under discussion on the other thread, Tracy has announced her business qualifications, if we are right she can also demonstrate considerable diversification. Is the limiting factor domiciliary practice?

    Bob
     
  14. I am not a member of two professional bodies as I opted to join SOCAP because that was a requirement of applying for posts with the NHS and in doing some advanced training within the NHS structure with a UNI to complete my BSc conversion at that time.
    offended some may feel my post isn't genuine????? But I changed name as I got married and now divorced sorry!!!
     
  15. PS I run two satellite clinics and domicillary, guess its just a slow time of the year when I compare work to previous years ......
     
  16. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Catfoot


    REG,
    You have lost me with that last cryptic post ( 10#)


    It was meant for Tracy she invited the comment.


    I was going to respond to some of the points you flagged up in 7# but it appears you have picked up your bucket and spade and left the sandpit.

    Now who is being cryptic?

    Anyway, you mentioned price as a factor, you said
    Quote:
    Ok lets run this one up the flagpole. Customers changed needs are to economise hence want a cheaper service. What would your response be?


    There are always those who want the 'cheap & cheerful' option. They are operating purely with a price motive and won't change.


    Excuse me but that is a bit opinionated, what if the ‘cheap’ option achieves the same result as the ‘premium’ option, which would you choose, watch Aldi’s adverts!

    I don't believe any business should compromise it's quality of products or service to entice these people through the door.

    Why do you assume there is a compromise, in many cases I do prefer Aldi products and shopping experience to Sainsbury.

    This is one situation where I don't believe in giving the customer what they want.

    Now that is certainly the formula for success.

    These clients have no loyalty and aren't an asset to the business.

    Does ‘loyalty’ still exist? And is it always a good thing?

    Reading this has made me realize that times have certainly change and my old values no longer apply so will be very happy to retire.

    Bob
     
  17. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Tracy

    I am not a member of two professional bodies as I opted to join SOCAP because that was a requirement of applying for posts with the NHS

    This truly surprises me as a) SOCAP changed to the SCP many years ago and as far as I am aware membership of it has never been a requirement for employment in the NHS


    and in doing some advanced training within the NHS structure with a UNI to complete my BSc conversion at that time.

    I cannot comment on that

    offended some may feel my post isn't genuine????? But I changed name as I got married and now divorced sorry!!!

    I sincerely apologize if I have concluded that you are the chair of the Welsh branch of the BCHPA, you have amazingly similar profiles.


    Bob:eek:
     
  18. Hi Bob,
    On applying for NHS posts it is a requirement in their person spec to be a SOCAP member. I have had a altication with a pre interview employer who clearly told me that no matter what qualification I had I would not get a post in the NHS!!! Charming.

    Yes I was Chair of a certain Branch, but gave it up to join SOCAP in the hope of better standards of professionalism and stature !!! How disappointed I have been!! never mind, theres no problems if you have dual membership as both provide Journals wirh great articles and furthers ones CPD.

    Anyone can cut nails, but not everyone can be a Chiropodist ( quoted from somewhere out there)!
     
  19. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Hi Tracy,

    Thanks for your honesty so you are who I think you are.

    As I said that is not a problem for me.

    I will not share the information I have on you but you do still show as a chair of a certain branch of an organization. (Sorry David, I will stick to my promise.)


    So lets all let that lie, and if you want to discuss the problem of social enterprises lets do it?

    I will admit my primary objective is to get removed from this site.

    Admin is refusing to do it, so in true fashion I will be controversial but I hope polite and respectful.

    You know the saddest thing is that Mark Russell will not be reading any of this!

    Bob

    Bob
     
  20. Hiya all,
    I still find it funny that its four years since I left the SMAE and me still is listed as Chair!! I even get a Christmas card from Mr Batt...

    The SMAE are not that bad considering that Age Concern do NO WHERE near the same training before being let loose on the public!!! How they can pay or run a department on silly charges is beyond me.... Never mind hopefully they will fade or a patient will have something bad happen to stop this fiasco. At least FHPs and old Chiropodists Grandparented from the SMAE to HPC registration like me had a good background and training to provide what the public in general needs - Good footcare.

    So dont knock us all there are good and competant practitioners giving a good service.

    I cant be the only one who has furthered their training and career in Podiatry?

    Well its time to leave this post.
     
  21. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Tracy,

    Surely you don't mean you hope for that ?

    I'm appalled

    Catfoot
     
  22. DAVOhorn

    DAVOhorn Well-Known Member

    Dear Catfoot,

    I do not feel that it was wished that an incident take place.

    However, sadly it would take an adverse outcome for the investigation of current practice of AGE CONCERN to occur.

    If this did happen, then how would AGE CONCERN be called to task.

    How would their minimum standards be compared and to what. Hopefully HPC reg but probably not as they provide a social service as opposed to a health service.

    However if the client believed they were in receipt of a health service and not a social service you then have a clash as to what is provided and what was thought to be provided.

    HHMMMMM

    Could be fun.

    Just look at the current investigations into standards of care in care homes and nursing homes.

    Also is the nail care just a task or part of a health management plan ?

    That would then add fuel to the argument of what is provided.

    Fun times.

    David
     
  23. Just saying until something goes wrong - which I don't wish on anyone, then maybe our services, care and insurance will be more valued ......
     
  24. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Tracy,

    The age old insurance argument!

    Thing is it just does not happen, despite what all those clever opening speakers scare the poo out of you at 'conferences'.

    The ones who get done for claims of 'negligence' are the NHS and they seldom fight it.

    Same as anaphylactic shock from LA never recorded!

    The problem is on one hand the Pods want to claim the high ground then Private trainers try to occupy the low ground then cry foul when even lower providers pick between their arguments.

    It is a mess and nobody has the right to a living.
     
  25. What I meant is that as professionals we have to pay liability insurance, tax, extra on business car insurance , training, CPD, get electrical items PAT tested, Autoclave serviced etc which Age Concerns seems to have got away with???????
     
  26. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Tracy

    This is from some who usually is well informed.

    Wales is a couple of years behind on the nail cutting thing and Scotland is just in the throes of going through the set up of cheap nail cutting.

    Its beginning to all fall apart around here....caremart bankrupt. The nail place risen from the ashes with fees up to my charges and beyond. Now have the problem of risking being swamped with nail cutting if I am not careful. Crap care from both NHS for nail care and from the nail place or is it cost vs quality or my marketing skills?


    This of course is no consolation if you cannot ride the storm out.

    The other thing is this person is talking about a nail service offered in a surgery where with a bit of skill you can schedule fractions of a 'standard' 30 minute appointment, I do the same and can on a good day earn more than my standard fee cutting nails.

    Obviously this not possible in a dom situation where the actual 'work' time is a fraction of the 'appointment time' unless of course you can get 10 people in the same room at the same time!

    IMO domiciliary practice carries it's own 'image problem'. In general again IMO treatment in the home is seen as a cheaper option, probably predicated by the hairdressing model, while the skills of the operator may be just as good the 'frills' of a top salon are not there.

    It's a dilemma.

    Bob
     
  27. You mention the image problem and I can see some people would think its cheaper, but I do not. I can only do one person an hour which inc travelling inbetween as i am in an urban area, have to complete record card, pack up bag and seat etc. I provide a convient home service to people who cannot get to me as well as clinic sessions ( I can do more people that way). I guess it is a sign of the times being quieter than I would like to be...
     
  28. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Tracy,

    You are now really confusing me.

    You say you have a business studies degree but IMO your sums do not add up.

    You mention the image problem and I can see some people would think its cheaper, but I do not.

    What you think is irrelevant it is the buyers perception that counts.

    I can only do one person an hour which inc travelling inbetween as i am in an urban area, have to complete record card, pack up bag and seat etc.

    So if you are charging £30 a visit that is well below the ‘SAME’ £35 per half hour advert.

    I provide a convient home service to people who cannot get to me

    Honestly? Do you have a restriction criteria for home visits, ie housebound?

    as well as clinic sessions ( I can do more people that way).

    Sorry but look at your web site your clinic is 2 hours a week on an evening.

    I guess it is a sign of the times being quieter than I would like to be...

    It may well be a sign of the times but it may also be a reflection of your business model. Does Age UK really have that much effect on your pick and mix recipe of alternative techniques, beauty therapies and MSc podiatry provision?

    I’m out of here.

    Bob
     
  29. Right. Website ou of date cannot revamp as my ex changed passwords and deleted my web software, yes I do charge £30 plus, I am not answerable to anyone about my costs ie smae or whoever I charge what the market will stand as I am dearest in area for what I do. I have two clinic
    Locations more than 2 hours per week, pic pic pic now I know why I haven't been on site for while
     
  30. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Tracy,

    Not pic pic pic, this is the reality of the internet.

    Is it really a nice and safe place to be?

    You asked about Age UK, some of us have tried to follow your concerns and address them.

    But when presented with some realities you have personal excuses.

    Sorry not a problem I can help you with.

    Bye.
     
  31. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Tracy,
    I really don't know where you are coming from.

    You ask for advice, then give all sorts of excuses to reject the suggestions you are given.

    You state that some comments are ill-informed - but when asked for more info and clarification you accuse the questor of 'pic, pic, pic'.

    What do you want from his forum?

    You may think I was unduly harsh in my response but I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee

    confused :bang:

    Catfoot
     
  32. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    You appall easily, if you don't mind me saying....
     
  33. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    You are wrong.
    Although I agree about anaphylaxis.

    BTW, there is no Welsh Branch of the BCPA. It closed a while back.
     
  34. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    No, david H I don't mind at all :D

    regards

    Catfoot
     
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