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Barefoot Running Debate

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Kevin Kirby, Jan 21, 2010.

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  1. I see a choice of colours and some kind of "bareback running" logo.
     
  2. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    From those comedy geniuses at http://graphjam.com

    Sadly they don't tell us what they think about running...
     

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  3. DaVinci

    DaVinci Well-Known Member

    What happened to our barefooter?
    I guess they just proved what you claimed:
     
  4. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

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    Indeed :craig:

    I do know what site they were promoting before the spam link drop was removed (selling barefoot shoes), so the above was a bit of baiting as I knew what research they had on their site to support barefoot running. It had to be the worse misrepresentation and misquoting and misunderstanding of research i have ever seen, so I was looking forward to having some fun with them!

    They were the site that took the "may" out of the title of the press release of the kerrigan research that we discussed here.
     
  5. All I am interested in the claims that barefoot running results in an increase in arch height and that foot-type is associated with leg stiffness so I went back to a few historical references I had in which habitually shod populations had been compared to habitually barefoot populations. These predominantly relate to hallux valgus and the first ray segment. I hope you find them interesting.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2167058/pdf/brmedj02400-0040.pdf
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1244092/pdf/janat00433-0079.pdf
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1244763/pdf/janat00461-0102.pdf
    http://www.ejbjs.org/cgi/reprint/40/5/1058
     
  6. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    This one may also be of interest to you Simon
     
  7. Just watching a bit of TV after the 1st run of the year now the snow and ice has melted (in shoes) anyway the IAAF world cross country champs was on when I turned on the tv 3-4 africian runners were running bare feet.

    Just a bit of useless info
     
  8. Speaking of the new journal, Footwear Science, I just got my first copies of the journal last week and this article by Benno Nigg on barefoot running was excellent.

     
  9. Here's a great little study for anyone with one of those treadmills with a built in pressure plate- like you Phil Wells. Take a group of people who don't regularly engage in recreational running, get them to take off their shoes and run on said treadmill barefoot. Devise a training programme, e.g. for a half marathon- or use an existing one, for example: http://www.plymouthhalfmarathon.co.uk/training-plans.aspx
    Half of them complete the programme wearing running shoes, the other half do it barefoot. Measure changes in foot pressure, injury rate etc along the way. Off you go then, what are you waiting for?
     
  10. This picture of Bruce Tulloh might even replace my picture of Pre in the toilet, if only he had the moustache... Apparently, you can't beat a bit of barefoot on a cinder track to get you right after a night out on the pop.
     

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  11. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Simon,

    Stumbled across this on a fell running forum and thought of you. All the quotations below have been lifted verbatum from the forum. Admittedly it is more n=1 evidence but interesting nonetheless.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Griff

    Griff Moderator

  13. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Kevin,

    I don't have an electronic copy I'm afraid, but I'll scan it from the magazine and post it here or email it to you if thats ok?

    Ian
     
  14. Ian:

    If you could scan it and post it up here on Podiatry Arena, that would be good for me and many others who are probably interested in reading it.

    Thanks very much!!:drinks
     
  15. Hello

    I found this video on youtube showing an analysis of the same runner/same day (treadmill) - shod and shoeless. They state there was no instruction given between filming. Interesting to see the biomechanical differences.


    Alison
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  16. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Wasn't sure who Dr Silberman was (or whether he had an agenda?) - quick google search tells me that a heel injury stopped his running career (wonder if he ran shod or barefoot?). Disagree with his contentions that heel striking is the 'wrong technique'. However what did catch my eye was the obvious change in kinematics at knee level between the two conditions -> barefoot running = stiffer surface = adaptation of leg stiffness by increasing knee flexion? Spooner you've changed my life...
     

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  17. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

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    Joe Hamil presented some of his research at last yrs PFOLA mtg that he is still getting published, but here are two of the dot points from his concluding powerpoint:
    I guess there is nothing like an ugly fact getting in the way of someone with an agenda
     
  18. The narrator of this video obviously has an agenda. Maybe hitting the ground with the forefoot first is "incorrect" and the shoe allows "correct" heel strike to occur! What a joke!
     
  19. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Kevin,

    Attached as promised

    Ian
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Thanks, man. The kinematics at the knee, ankle and hip certainly seem to support the leg stiffness concept. The narator strikes me as someone with an agenda who doesn't know how to use his motion analysis software very well.
     
  21. Here's a question I've been thinking about. I've seen the difference between barefoot running and shod running in thousands of treadmill videos that I've analysed over the years - some people tend to forefoot strike when barefoot and change to a rearfoot strike when shod, but not all. Some strike forefoot with and without the shoes, some strike rearfoot with and without their shoes. Some are midfoot strikers! Barefoot running is not the same as running in vibram five fingers, so should we expect to see a barefoot pattern in five fingers? If it is the mass of the shoe which is significant then how heavy is a modern distance running shoe compared to a racing flat compared to a vibram five finger ? I'm guessing the racing flat will be lighter than the five finger..
     
  22. You're a good man, Ian. Have a nice Easter.:drinks
     
  23. efuller

    efuller MVP

    That narrator!!

    If your going to talk about strain in muscles, you should at least say which muscles. He conveniently ignores the strain on the Achilles that occurs with forefoot landing.

    Cheers,

    Eric
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  24. Paulo Silva

    Paulo Silva Active Member

    I've just passed trough runningbarefootisbad.com and was shocked with the bullying from the barefoot community to the author, reading this post.
     
  25. MelbPod

    MelbPod Active Member

    In the Age newspaper today (Melbourne)

    http://www.theage.com.au/national/barefoot-runners-sock-it-to-sport-shoes-20100403-rkw9.html

    'Barefoot' runners sock it to sport shoes MARIS BECK
    April 4, 2010


    BAREFOOT running is gaining a toe-hold in Melbourne as experts say Australians may be wasting millions on cushy shoes.

    In a study published in Nature, Harvard University researcher Daniel Lieberman found that barefoot runners tended to hit the ground with the ball of their foot first, causing less impact on their feet, ankles and knees.

    When wearing running shoes, however, runners were more likely to ''heel-strike'' - hit the ground heel-first with a greater, more jarring force.

    Humans have run barefoot throughout their evolution and Dr Lieberman says this means we should be able to ''run easily on the hardest surfaces … without discomfort from landing''.

    ''If you want to try barefoot running or minimal shoe running, don't be afraid. It's what our bodies evolved to do,'' Dr Lieberman, a professor of evolutionary biology told The Sunday Age.

    Some shoe companies, including Nike, are cashing in on the trend with ''barefoot'' shoes, which can cost up to $200. The shoes have separate toes and protect feet from stones and glass without the padding of a normal running shoe.

    The owner of Kew's Runners World, Neil Ryan, said sales of barefoot shoes had jumped since the end of last year.

    A convert is Richmond-based personal trainer Ben Belling, 33, who spends more than 12 hours on his feet most days. In January, he started wearing Vibram's barefoot shoes to ease chronic tension through his calves and back.

    He noticed an improvement within days. ''They are the only shoes I now wear,'' he said.

    Mr Belling recently put his old running shoes back on and said they felt like a pair of gumboots. He missed the ''dexterity, balance, and stability control'' of his barefoot shoes, and doing exercise felt like ''trying to solve a Rubik's cube wearing a pair of welding gloves''.

    Vibram partially funded Dr Lieberman's research. However, he told The Sunday Age his study was independent, in compliance with Harvard's policies.

    Sports medicine specialist and doctor to the Socceroos, Peter Brukner, has suggested some of his patients use barefoot shoes.

    ''I see a lot of runners as patients, and I've always been concerned about the use of all these very expensive running shoes that don't seem to have resulted in any reduction of injuries,'' Dr Brukner said.

    He said his patients ''were all a bit hesitant initially, because we've all been convinced by the shoe companies that we

    need these wonderfully comfortable, supportive shoes''.

    The Australian Sporting Goods Association estimates that in the past year, Australians spent $365 million on running shoes.

    But despite all that expensive padding, Monash University Accident Research Centre says up to 70 per cent of runners sustain over-use injuries every year.

    Dr Brukner said more tests were needed to prove the benefits of barefoot running. Those wanting to try it should ''build up slowly to enable the body to adjust''.

    Shoe manufacturer ASICS Australia spokesman Jay Choma said that he did not recommend running barefoot.

    http://barefootrunning.fas.harvard.edu
     
  26. "Barefoot shoes"- marketing in its purest form.

    If you have shoes on, then you are, by definition, not barefoot.

    The next big marketing thing?

    Nude clothes.:craig::bang::wacko:
     
  27. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

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    She obviously did not think my comments were expert enough! I got interviewed for this article, but no quotes! :empathy:
     
  28. Griff

    Griff Moderator

  29. Griff

    Griff Moderator

  30. Here is a recent question and summary of responses to Biomech-L that I asked on the performance effects of barefoot running.

     
  31. Motion Control Shoe Delays Fatigue of Shank Muscles in Runners with Overpronating Feet

    Think this scientific study will see any headlines in the popular press or in the barefoot running blogs?....not a chance!
     
  32. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

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  33. Here is another good observation on Lieberman et al's research from a recent Biomech-L posting.

    And here is a comment I made back in January 2010 on the Runner's World blog which puts a little more reality into Lieberman et al's study.

    Here's my second comment on the Lieberman article thread on the Runner's World website.

    And my third comment from the same Runner's World article.

     
  34. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

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    I like this comment:
    1. There is NO evidence that running shoes weaken muscles.
    2. There is evidence that foot orthotics actually strengthen muscles (and no evidence that they weaken muscles).
    3. Even if shoes do actually weaken the arch muscles, how does that make the foot pronate? Weak instrinsic muscles cause a high arch supinated foot!
    4. Where is the evidence that a pronated foot causes plantar fasciitis? Not one of the prospective studies on risk for plantar fasciitis has found a link!

    Michael Orendurff is right when he states:
     
  35. flipper

    flipper Member

    Last edited: Apr 7, 2010
  36. toomoon

    toomoon Well-Known Member

    How come no-one is acknowledging the fact that the barefoot/minimalist argument is aimed at mostly elite runners... and that as of today, the percentage of elite runners in the world has not yet reached single figures.
    I also was amused by the youtube video of barefoot vs shod running on the treadmill and attendant commentary.
    Should I start a new thread on the very obvious and profound differences between treadmill and overground running? I reckon everyone who ever analysed an athlete on a treadmill would have seen those features when that athlete first attempted a barefoot run..
     
  37. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

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    Someone needed to tell the barefoot running community before they started touting this study on running shoes causing more ankle and knee OA compared to barefoot running (and it wasn't even a study on OA!).

    We have had threads on treadmills. I have no problems with treadmills being used in biomechanical research on running, BUT that is depending on the parameters/variable under investigation.
     
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