Welcome to the Podiatry Arena forums

You are currently viewing our podiatry forum as a guest which gives you limited access to view all podiatry discussions and access our other features. By joining our free global community of Podiatrists and other interested foot health care professionals you will have access to post podiatry topics (answer and ask questions), communicate privately with other members, upload content, view attachments, receive a weekly email update of new discussions, access other special features. Registered users do not get displayed the advertisements in posted messages. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our global Podiatry community today!

  1. Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
Dismiss Notice
Have you liked us on Facebook to get our updates? Please do. Click here for our Facebook page.
Dismiss Notice
Do you get the weekly newsletter that Podiatry Arena sends out to update everybody? If not, click here to organise this.

Blade runner (Oscar Pistorius)

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Simon Spooner, Jan 15, 2008.

Tags:
  1. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Agreed - it needs to be a level playing field. I'm still not convinced its newsworthy - maybe if he was winning races and contending for medals it would be.

    Worth keeping an eye on the excellent Science of Sport blog in the meantime. Dr Ross Tucker hinted on twitter yesterday that he may be writing a blog on this shortly (once the tour de France has finished).
     
  2. It already does... or at least tries to. Benno's running spikes for Ato Boldon are an example of this. OK, they failed, but they equipped this runner with technology no-one else in the field had. Remember the swimming suits... Can't remember who had them (Australia?), at that Olympics no-one else had that technology. Did it provide an unfair advantage? Maybe... All the equipment manufacturers are trying to give the athletes they sponsor an advantage through technology.

    I say we should go back to ancient Olympics ethos and have them all compete naked and barefoot. It's the only way to have a level playing field- right, Griff.;)

    Plus, I guarantee it would attract record breaking viewing figures.

    I tell you what I've never understood, why do athletes wear jewellery, sunglasses etc.. when every ounce counts.
     
  3. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    I looked into rifle shooting as a way of getting to compete in the Commonwealth for the IOM. Apparently the opposite is true for them, it is all about adding weight and rigidity. I think I recall someone telling me the chinese were disqualified for using shooting trousers that were too stiff - ie reinfirced metal rods down the linings. Apparently, they were being hoisted into them like the knights of yore(although I think that might be a myth....the knights, not the Chinese)

    I had a patient who did compete for the island and as part of his prescription, I supplied him with a full lateral wedge for usage in his left shooting boot which is perfectly flat along the bottom. He felt the lateral wedge allowed him to lean forward into a shooting position without having to use his peroneals as much(they stand perpendicular to the shooting line(darts equivalent is the oche). This afforded him more stability and he could pass it off as medical prescrption if questioned.

    Rivetting stuff!
     
  4. I just like the idea of "shooting trousers" or "shooting pants" as our American colleagues might call them.


    One of the early valgus posted devices I made not only got rid of the patients medial knee pain but also, according to him, lobbed a few strokes off his golfing handicap. In a previous life I worked for a shoe manufacturer who developed a shoe which was banned by the Royal and Ancient- it had a valgus wedged sole. Make of that what you will.
     
  5. Forefoot valgus wedged orthoses also work great for golfer's stability during the golf swing. I've had many a golfer say that these orthoses made a significant difference for them with their golf swing.
     
  6. Beat me to it by two minutes Spooner!!!:craig::eek::cool:
     
  7. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    I concur. Wouldn't play golf without mine in situ.
     
  8. You've either got the force with you, or you haven't, Kirby :empathy:. You're not turning to the dark side are you? I heard a rumour that you're going to be lecturing on barefoot running at next years Biomechanics Summer School. ;)

    P.S. I have a good teacher.
     
  9. This from the man that plays golf with a bit of rubber with a "hologram" in it around his wrist and still gets thrashed by Del.:D
     
  10. "Barefoot vs. Shod Running: Which is Best?"

    This is also the lecture I'm giving against Irene Davis in a couple of months at a Physical Therapy Seminar in Long Beach. Even though this lecture is evidence-based, it isn't necessarily pro-barefoot. Can't wait!

    https://m360.ccapta.org/event/session.aspx?id=30752
     
  11. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    Damn it, I was just about to recommend that to one of my patietns until you said you use one
     
  12. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Touche chaps.
     
  13. I've been called a lot of things, but do you honestly think "chap"? What are you benching these days, chap?
     
  14. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    I prefer old bean
     
  15. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    Could you possibly expand on this Simon? Curious to know how wedged, location of wedge etc. Adjustable for individual golfers?

    Robin
     
  16. It was developed before I joined the company, so I don't have details on it. As far as I can recall, t'was basically a sole unit which was valgus wedged straight through from heel to forefoot, but I have no idea of the angulation. I think it was called "weight-right", "weight-rite" or some other derivative. It wasn't adjustable. I was 24 years old and more interested in developing and applying 3D foot-scanners and CAD/CAM in orthopaedic footwear at the time, which is what I was employed to do. That and clubbing. Due to the instability of the internet at the time and due to the size of the files we were trying to send around the world, it turned into a pain in the ass and after a brief spell of working for a commercial orthotics lab, I went back to finishing my PhD.
     
  17. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    Thanks for that Simon.

    In theory, one would probably want some type of lateral wedge that was pneumatic that could be engaged and disengaged between shots for walking.

    If you hit the ball 400 yards like me :pigs: then walking with a lateral wedge between shots may take its toll on my feet over the 6 miles (approx ) I walk round the course.
     
  18. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    About 220 old boy. Tally ho.

    I've got 3.5 degrees EVA valgus wedging (full length) under a Poron top cover. Keep meaning to knock myself a pair of 5 degree versions up for comparison but not got round to it as yet.
     
  19. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    I don't find it a problem at all, but then I do have chronic ankle instability and laterally deviated STJ axes. I tend to give them a lot to golfers who are 'older' and use buggies exclusively.
     
  20. For driving, I reckon you should be better off with a varus/ contra-lateral for the trailing leg. JEEZUS, I got the in-laws staying at the moment (both past captains at Romsey), I'm talking golf on the Arena, WTF?

    Golf, for the record, is ****.

    Most golfers are "older"; end of story.
     
  21. Griff

    Griff Moderator

  22. Griff

    Griff Moderator

  23. James Welch

    James Welch Active Member

    I'm so glad you said this...you should all be playing a proper sport...like rugby!

    As Simon alluded to before though, there are now advantages in all sports dependent on the kit that is used. Look at the Tour de France - get all of the cyclists riding Raleigh Chopper's - then we'll see who's King of the Mountains!

    Don't worry, I'm not about to start championing the church of Barefoot running - but if you want a fair race, then barefoot it is......:D
     
  24. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    I'd say the biggest advantage most cyclists in the tour have is the cocktail of as yet undetectable performance enhancing drugs they take...allegedly...
     
  25. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    If you think Pistorius gets good air time, check this out. This is my 3 year old daughter Camilla doing "painting on the prom" last week. Sorry, a bit off topic again
     

    Attached Files:

  26. Arthur.Clarke

    Arthur.Clarke Active Member

    I was one of the developers of the carbon prosthetics as used by Oscar Pistorius, working then for Ossur. We have another device in the pipe line which we are currently working on, with one of the top 5 F1 teams, using there software simulations and testing rigs.
    All looking wicked and hope I could say more!
     
  27. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    'Blade Runner' to meet the best
    Full story
     
  28. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Sport24 are reporting:
    Oscar still subject of debate
    Full story
     
  29. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    He has been selected frpo the Olympics:

    Full story
     
  30. If he does win a medal, then a ****storm will break loose in the media and scientific community about how the research evidence that shows he truly has an unfair biomechanical advantage versus the other able-bodied runners was suppressed due to legal and political considerations only. The only way this race would be fair, would be for his "blades" to be the same mass as the other runner's legs. This will probably only become a point with the media if he wins a medal. :butcher:
     
  31. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    One thing's for sure - he didn't get those blades on the NHS:D!







    Sorry - flippant, I know............:eek:
     
  32. I honesty doubt that he will win a medal. I do believe the blades offer an unfair advantage in terms of mass also, and I presume he'll have their spring characteristics tuned to match the track too.

    As I said back in 2008
    I should be interested to see how this opens the door to the use of springs in competitive running footwear... think Spira http://www.spira.com/ or even..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1O1YaD-Gpw think we might see a few new world records, not least in the high jump.
     
  33. cdh1712

    cdh1712 Member

    Re: Blade runner

    If you look at the mechanics of acceleration from starting in blocks using blades versus the mechanical advantage of having a normal skeletal system below the knee in the able bodied, this far outweighs any advantage gained through having a lighter lower limb. Oscar Pistorious' world records are seconds slower than the able bodied. If he had an unfair advantage his records would be faster. It is an amazing story and he deserves his chance to compete with the able bodied.
    Carl
     
  34. DaVinci

    DaVinci Well-Known Member

    Re: Blade runner

    No disrespect intended to Oscar Pistorious, but he could be a mediocre athlete who is able to run as fast as he does because of the mechanical advantage ... or not :confused:
     
  35. Re: Blade runner

    You are wrong, Carl.

    It has been demonstrated quite clearly through scientific analysis that Oscar Pistorius has an unfair advantage over able-bodied athletes since the mass of his "blades" (i.e. moment of inertia) is so much less than his able-bodied competitors that his "swing time" (i.e. time spent moving the limb from posterior to anterior in the air) is far shorter than any of the world's best runners. This makes his running far more metabolically efficient than any runner in history who has normal legs.

    Yes, Pistorius has an amazing story. Yes, Pistorius deserves our praise for doing what no one has done before. However, Pistorius should not be allowed to run in the Olympics against able-bodied athletes due to his unfair mechanical advantage with his current "blades". The only reason Pistorius is running in the Olympics is because the scientific information that clearly showed his "blades" gave him an unfair mechanical advantage was not considered properly in making the decision to allow him to be an Olympic competitor or not.

    You can read more about the legal-political-scientific fiasco of how Pistorius got to run in the Olympics this year at the Science of Sports website.

    http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011/08/pistorius-12-sec-advantage-and.html

    I'll definitely be watching his race and I hope he gets a medal. The media will be on this in an instant and the fur will be flying for months to come when the truth finally becomes widely known as to how his unfair advantage wasn't considered properly in allowing him to compete with the able-bodied runners. Can't wait!!
     
  36. cdh1712

    cdh1712 Member

    Hi Kevin
    Certainly he does have a considerable advantage in reduced mass and swing time. The question is whether this advantage outweighs the disadvantage of reduced acceleration out of the blocks. In the paralympics he competes at 100, 200 and 400 meters. In the olympics only at 400 because he has the distance to make up for his early disadvantage.
    How do you measure this advantage vs disadvantage I don't know but I'm glad he's there and we're asking the questions!
    I'm backing Dai Green anyway!!
    Best wishes
    Carl
     
  37. Carl:

    My guess is that, without his "blades", Oscar Pistorius would not qualify to run even in the Olympic 400 meter trials for his country, let alone run in the Olympics themselves. In addition, without his "blades" he would not be competing in the Paralympics either. In fact, Pistorius would be probably just another of the hundreds of thousands of good runners, not quite elite enough to make it to the Olympics or make it even to the Olympic trials. He would instead be one of the hundreds of thousands of good runners who would be watching the Olympics on the television, like most of the rest of us will be doing.

    Therefore, I don't really consider Pistorius to be unfortunate other than he had a congenital defect that has greatly affected his life. Rather, I view, that in many ways, he is very fortunate in that his congenital defect, along with some amazing modern scientific brace technology that is very expensive and can't be financially afforded by many amputees, along with his obvious hard work, is going to allow him to compete in the Olympic Games, something that I also worked very, very hard for over many years, but was not able to accomplish. Still, I do admire Oscar's guts and determination. However, I find the whole process of how his lawyers got him into the Olympics, even though the scientific research clearly showed he has an unfair mechanical advantage versus his able-bodied competitors, to be a rather shady spectacle that has a bad taste to it.
     
  38. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Well-Known Member

    Re: He has one the appeal

    Aloha Simon,

    You could try a pair of Kingetics Simple Spring Machine Advanced Composite Orthotics on for a spin or Fosbury Flop.:rolleyes:

    A Hui Hou,
    Steve

    Kingetics- Making Your Life's Work Less Work...TM


    IAAF
    The objective results of this study are that:

    - Pistorius was able to run with his prosthetic blades at the same speed as the able-bodied sprinters with about 25% less energy expenditure. As soon as a given speed is reached, running with the prosthetics needs less additional energy than running with natural limbs.

    - Once the physiological potential of Oscar Pistorius and the able-bodied control athletes had been estimated, using three different methods, it is clear that Pistorius’ potential was not higher than that of the controls, even though their performance results were similar.

    - The biomechanical analysis demonstrated major differences in the sprint mechanics used by a below-knee amputee using prosthetics when compared to athletes with natural legs. The maximum vertical ground reaction forces and the vertical impulses are different in a highly significant way and the amount of energy return of the prosthetic blade have never been reported for a human muscle driven ankle joint in sprint running.

    - The positive work, or returned energy, from the prosthetic blade is close to three times higher than with the human ankle joint in maximum sprinting.

    - The energy loss in the prosthetic blade was measured at 9.3% during the stance phase while the average energy loss in the ankle joint of the able bodied control athletes was measured at 41.4%. This means that the mechanical advantage of the blade in relation to the healthy ankle joint of an able bodied athlete is higher than 30%.
     
  39. Re: He has one the appeal

    You really are a cock.
     
  40. Dr. Steven King

    Dr. Steven King Well-Known Member

    Aloha Simon,

    I appreciate the compliment.

    If you have ever seen me shred the waves while wearing a pair or our orthotics in wrestling shoes you could call me a major Kook too.

    :cool::cool:

    A Hui Hou,
    Steve

    Kingetics- Enlightening Your Load...TM
     
Loading...

Share This Page