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British Podiatric Medical Association

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Mark Russell, Dec 2, 2012.


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    Dear Colleague

    For the last six months and together with some like-minded colleagues from within and out-with the podiatry profession, I have been considering the formation of a new professional body for the UK. In addition to the usual member services, the primary aim of the organisation would be to establish podiatry as an independent (as opposed to dependent) profession within the existing and future UK health market through the:

    1. Establishment of an academic campus for undergraduate and postgraduate podiatric medical and surgical education and training.

    2. Formation of a commercial practice unit to provide the neccessary expertise, funding and support services for members.

    3. Establishment and promotion of a national accredited practice network possibly through a dedicated franchise scheme funded by the profession, for the profession.

    4. The creation of a dedicated podiatric medical insurance scheme for our patients.

    5. The establishment of a dedicated statutory registrar and overarching regulatory framework for podiatric medicine and surgery.

    The first stage would be to produce and publish a strategy document and proposal - and outline business plan for the new body - for the profession to consider. The aim would be to deliver this by April 2013 and to initiate consultation with all interested parties - clinicians, government, trade and patient groups - over a three month period following publication.

    I know this is an enormous subject and I don't wish to start debating all the various prospects and proposed developments at this stage - I am simply looking for notes of interest and offers of assistance in the initial process. If you think you may have something to offer and you are willing to help in the formation of the professional plan, please let me know by adding your name to this thread or emailing me in confidence at mark[at]mark-russell.net

    Sincerely

    Mark Russell
     
  2. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Count me in, Mark :drinks
     
  3. Lovefeet

    Lovefeet Banned

    Sounds like a fab idea, but Mark are you HCPC Registered?
     
  4. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    Mark

    sounds like a good idea perhaps you could look at this thread
    http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showthread.php?t=84462 (Implications of AQP for private practice V's NHS)
    Maybe you can see a kindred thread here and perhaps have some comments with regard to the private sector podiatrist (self funded private sector podiatrist)

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2012
  5. Lovefeet

    Lovefeet Banned

    Mark, do you know how many private podiatrists are registered with the HCPC? This information can be obtained by Freedom of Information from the society.

    Could be the reason The Society of Chiropdodists and Podiatrists have done F.A. for private Podiatrists, is because they have more NHS Pods and the student Pods on their books, compared to private practitioners......

    Be interesting to know The Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists figures...
     
  6. "Lovefeet"

    I will be perfectly happy to answer your questions and engage in discussion with you once you demonstrate that you have the courage of your convictions by putting your name to what you write. If you wish to continue using the monikier "Lovefeet" - that's fine; you can add your name on your profile page, otherwise I'm afriad that I will not be entering into discussion with you on any subject.

    Best wishes
     
  7. Lovefeet

    Lovefeet Banned

    Thanks Mark, do not worry, have looked at previous posts, you are indeed not HCPC registered, which means, that at the end of the day, what you offer would be the same as the SMAE, etc etc. etc.

    So once again, we will be back to square one. What we really need is a HCPC registered Podiatrist offering the service and supporting the BSc Podiatry degree.


    Good luck
    Mark
     
  8. Then I suggest you remain with SMAE.
     
  9. I'd love for there to be an organisation which results in the true closure of our profession, but unless you can persuade all of the other professional organisations to close down their activities, it'll never happen. End of Story. Viz. too many people with too many fingers reaping the rewards of the current pie. When the HPC came to be, others just identified the loop-holes and exploited them, hence we have foot care practitioners. All the loop-holes need to be closed. The only people who can close the loop-holes at the present time are the HCPC, membership organisations are just p!ssing in the wind if they think they can achieve this.
     
  10. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Let`s be realistic: we aint gonna get closure/protection of scope of practice, as it goes against current political agenda. So, (in the interests of the private practitioner) the only option is to work with an establishment that has an up-todate and thorough understanding of the `loop-holes` and our interests at their core...just maybe.
     
  11. But while all the time other "establishments" continue to quite legally exploit the loop-holes... Here's a force ten, get your cock out and try to p!ss against it. Lets see what happens... Got to close down those exploiting the loop-holes or it will never happen. Amazon, Starbucks, etc pay less tax in the UK than a small business, even though they have multi-million pound turn-over. Yet they are doing nothing illegal. Morality is a different question. But these people don't care about morality. The same applies here; they are merely interested in the pound they make, all of them. I hate to tell you- every professional body representing chiropody, podiatry, call it what you will in the UK is a business, and as such needs to make money. How many of them are registered as a not for profit organisation?
     
  12. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Well, I don`t have a weathercock, so will have to take your word for it.

    Other than that, I agree with all you say. You/we/they can`t `close down` those exploiting the loop-holes. That`s why I have opted for independant professional indemnity insurance this year, unless I get a better offer.
     
  13. Next year will mark the 25th anniversary of me beginning my training as a chiropodist, it could easily mark my departure from the profession too. I think I've given it a fair crack of the whip.
     
  14. Agree with most of what Simon wrote except that it's not the HCPC that can close the loopholes, it is government. The HCPC would very much welcome functional closure as it would certainly increase their powers of sanction. Must be a real bugger to them when they strike off someone for serious misconduct when said registrant can then simply continue in practiceunder a different guise. Nothing has really changed in the last 50 years - nothing will until the profession takes responsibility of its own affairs. Delegate those responsibilities to others not concerned with the profession - government, HCPC or NHS management - and we will never fulfil our potential. End of.
     
  15. Lovefeet

    Lovefeet Banned

    Mark, I am not with SMAE, or any other Foot Health Practitioner body.

    I think maybe the reason The Society of Podiatrists and chiropodists have not got a dept designated for private practitioners, etc. etc. is that so far there is no direct threat to their income, and therefore no need to invest in the private podiatrists. If an organisation was to start up for private podiatrists, that was in favour of the BSc Podiatry degree and HCPC regiistration, then I reckon The Society would only then get off its backside.
     
  16. simonfeet

    simonfeet Active Member

    I'm sorry, maybe I'm not getting the drift of this proposal but aren't you trying to reinvent the wheel?
    As podiatrists/chiropodists we've only just just got legal status, have a very well established body that represents us, a body that overseas our competence,protects our legal liability with patients etc,etc.
     
  17. simonfeet

    simonfeet Active Member

    Owe I get it, pee'd off private practioners.
     
  18. kitos

    kitos Active Member

    Hi Blinda,

    Could you let me have the details of the insurance company that you went with please? Been trying to find an alternative myself.

    Thanks

    Nick
     
  19. kitos

    kitos Active Member

    Well said Mark. I totally agree.

    Nick
     
  20. kitos

    kitos Active Member

    Sorry Simonfeet I don't agree. Having tried to phone the SCP last week I got passed from pillar to post and got voicemails each and every time....nothing unusual there probably but as I had wanted an extension added to my insurance...I just gave up the will to live with them yet again and went elsewhere.:deadhorse:

    I am sick to death of them failing to represent the private practitioner and yet every issue of the 'comic' they lord it up about themselves and their committees.

    Rant over

    Nick
     
  21. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    Simonfeet,

    What do you mean by "we've only just got legal status":confused:.
     
  22. Lovefeet

    Lovefeet Banned

    DavidH......I think what Simonfeet means is that despite Chiropody been around for decades, it has only been in the last 10 years - 2007 (if not mistaken) that it became HPC (HCPC) Registered.
     
  23. blinda

    blinda MVP

  24. kitos

    kitos Active Member

  25. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    Perhaps. What was the difference between the protection (for the profession and the public) of the old CPSM and the HCPC as it stands today - in real terms Simonfeet?
     
  26. rosherville

    rosherville Active Member

    David

    It makes sense if Simonfeet was grandparented, they had no recognition under the CPSM !
     
  27. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    Hi John,

    From this quote I'm thinking newly minted with a job in the NHS or education, and little experience of any professional body (and believes the hype).

    Simon, I know they both sound the same - owe is when something, usually money is due from someone to someone else.
    Oh would be the right spelling in this case.
     
  28. I think Simonfeet is probably like the majority of colleagues and is unaware of the representative/regulatory environment. It is surprising how many podiatrists think the HCPC is a membership organisation similar or part of the SCP! I would think that by far the greatest majority are uninterested in the political developments in their chosen profession - most see the Society membership as a means of obtaining PII and a regular Journal. A small minority may support the branch network and an even smaller minority might be active in the branch and contribute online either via the SCP forum or Pod Arena. This is not new - but the level of apathy grows with each passing year. Like Simon Spooner, I would love to see a single unified body like the BDA with a focussed and determined membership. That way, anything is possible. Can you imagine 15,000 deregistering from the HCPC because of the loopholes that allow unregistered and disqualified clinicians to practice unhindered? Do you think functional closure might then be an attainable goal? You bet! You want better recognition and respect and proper remuneration for the skills you have? You want parity with the dental profession? It will only happen if the majority of the profession want it to happen and are determined enough to see through the process. It's an old cliche but you get the leadership you deserve - and as the evidence points on this board where many contributors don't have the conviction to sign off what they write in their own name - it would seem the present heirarchy have little to fear!

    UK PODIATRY 2012
     

    Attached Files:

  29. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    Mark

    I do respect your stand and support you in principle with respect to getting proper representation but


    Having said that I do think that with the advent of the health and social care bill and AQP we as a profession, a whole profession not just the elitist bits of it, need to get together and stop the unfair progress of the publicly funded private business that will masquerade as the NHS.

    If you wanted to go down that road then I would be on board Mark.

    Tell us how you / we could achieve these goals

    How would a new organisation for podiatrists be different

    I have tried to discard the use of Chiropodist as a professional title within my business and use podiatrist instead and over the years my customers and prospective customers seem to have come to the conclusion that a podiatrist is the next step up from a chiropodist and FHP's are 'unqualified or not properly qualified'and many prefer to see me on that basis.

    So couldn't we have the goal that the whole profession of foot care be amalgamated and have recognised levels of properly qualified practitioners within it. Maybe Foot health technician, Chiropodist, Podatrist. As I have said many of my customers seem to recognise these differentiations already.

    Regards Dave Smith
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  30. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    all of your wishes are laudable mark but we will never have parity with the dental profession
    everything in life has a natural order and dentists as a group are way above us on the food chain. by this i am saying your average dental student is
    more intelligent /acedemic than your average podiatry student most dentists earn more than podiatrists therfore they get a better quality of applicant. same applies to drs vets etc if you want the kudos of a top profession you have to be in one.not saying pods are rubbish just saying we have our place in the natural order.therefore if you goal is to give us parity with the dental profession i wish you luck but wont hold my breath.regards fishpod
     
  31. You may not like them Dave, but many of the "grandees" have given an enormous amount of their time and more besides to the profession and whilst we may not all agree with the direction the profession has taken, we were not walking in their shoes at the time. It's all too easy to stand on the sidelines and criticise, different when you are making the decisions on behalf of a membership in good faith. The evolution of the Society reflects the establishment and development of podiatry within the NHS - the primary health market in the UK over the last 50 years. And with that - trade union activities, management and consultative input and with the amalgamation of the PA - Podiatric Surgery. Things may be far from perfect, but I find it tasteless to belittle those people who have devoted so much of their time - even though I would like to see the profession heading in a different direction.

    I think your prejudices are showing here, Dave. I would like to see a podiatric profession which is accessible to all - but I would like to see the clinicians being remunerated at a level commensurate with their expertise - which I regard as being superior to dentistry. I also regard good foot health to be paramount compared to dental health. If you want to have a successful profession, you have to facilitate patient funding - either through a dedicated insurance scheme or by agreement with government for those patients who cannot afford the costs. Some of this can be mitigated by a tiered profession - with footcare and social nail care being provided by podiatry assistants - but what I said earlier applies. It can only and should only be done with functional closure, otherwise you endanger the livelihood of many of the members you puport to represent.

    No it will have to be the latter. I don't think it would be possible to reverse the grandparenting process and reinstigate it with a examination (which would have been my preferred option at the time). But I would like to see some form of revalidation process - for every member/registrant. That should be fun!
    The clue is in post #1

    All the best
    Mark
     
  32. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    mark just because you think something doesent mean its true. your quote our expertise is superior to dentistry wow. why dont we ask 100 people ala family fortunes who has more expertise a chiropodist or a
    dental surgeon.loud noise les dennis says nobody said chiropody.
     
  33. Sometimes you need to look further than the trappings of wealth to determine what is really valuable, fishpod. I would have thought that in this day and age, you would have realised that by now!
     
  34. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    yes but i dont want to be a monk. iwould quite like my denists new every year 911 not to mention his smokin hot wife and 3 kids in the local private school plus his pension pot
     
  35. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member


    Yes Mark I can see that these are different goals but as I read them I have no idea how they would come about, they seem a very distant goal and ones far above the aspirations or directions I want or require, especially in the near future to keep my podiatry practice running and improving.

    Mark I've spent ages trying to get on paper (virtual paper at least) and then deleting it many time, what I want to convey to you but it just won't come out without sounding all harsh and wrong and negative - so I'm gonna have a rest and come back to it. I want to support you but I also don't want more of the same in a different guise.

    Regards Dave
     
  36. Dave, et al., - let me make it simple. I don't have all the answers. In fact, I have real doubts that any one person can take this profession forward to the place where its potential can be fully realised. I certainly doubt if I can do this - for a whole host of reasons. And equally, anyone that does give you that promise is probably full of sh!t. Aside from the divisions within the profession, there are a whole load of external influences that need to be addressed - and not just regulation.

    What I can tell you is that like most other podiatrists I have thought long and hard about how we practice in the UK and having been fortunate enough to travel and experience my profession in other countries, I can make some comparison and look at the advantages and disadvantages of different clinical systems. I do think our profession is tremendously undervalued in the medical field. I remember being very excited about our prospects during the first 10 years after graduating and being an enthusiastic member of the PA when it was formed. In argumentative terms, podiatry wins hands down against many of the other disciplines in rank importance. We often like to compare podiatry with dentistry - and yes, I know all the arguments about why we lag behind in regard to status, remuneration, respect etc., but I do think we are - or potentially have the ability to be - of far greater importance and significance in our interventions. Perhaps it is to our disadvantage that our feet appear to be more robust than our teeth - at least in the first half of our lives - and maybe it's this fixation with all things cosmetic that sets podiatry below dentistry in the order of things (as fishpod puts it). But taken over a lifetime, it is our feet and their function that takes prime importance.

    I'm well aware that I'm preaching to the converted here, but that being so, you have to ask yourself why it is the case that podiatry and foot health is still very much regarded as a Cinderella service that can be practised by anyone regardless of qualification or expertise? Compare the UK profession with that in the USA - different ball-game. We should be ambitious; there is no reason why we cannot have the same profession this side of the pond. But to do so - you need the correct environment - and people. Like everything else in life - form a vision of where you want to be. Think about what you need to do to get there. Articulate that vision to others and debate and agree a strategy to achieve it. Then do it.

    I like the idea of a centre of excellence - a single campus in the UK for all things podiatric - undergrad, postgrad, research, administrative, corporate - an academic and business centre for our profession. I would like everyone in our profession to be part of it - ownership as well as membership, where we can invest in ourselves and reap the rewards, professionally and personally. We have a superb vocation - there will always be a demand for podiatrists as long as humans continue to walk upright on this planet. I don't think we should exploit our position, but we should try and ensure that those who practise podiatric medicine and surgery, can do so at a level commensurate with their skills and expertise. That can only come about with a collective desire and ambition and drive.

    It isn't all that difficult. The hardest part is gaining consensus. I think the future in most professions is about taking responsibility for our own affairs and setting it in a structure that benefits our patients (customers) and ourselves. I certainly do not wish to abdicate our responsibilities to politicians or civil servants - they have a completely different set of objectives.

    Rather than disassembling the suggestion - try adding to it. Think about where you are now (in your own practice) and where you would like to be. Then think about what you need to do to get there.

    Look forward to your suggestions when the time comes, but for now, a simple yeah or nay would suffice.


    Kindest
    Mark
     
  37. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    mark you dont think wealth money power are important cash is shallow . this undergraduate campus and all the office staff would all take mountains of cash. its a bit like politicians saying politics gets things done. wrong money gets things done. 500 corporations virtually run the world.i think some of your ideas are great even if we all agreed i dont think the money is there.
     
  38. blinda

    blinda MVP

    http://www.allmedpro.co.uk/medical_...l_professionals_dentists_doctors_vets_35.html

    and

    http://www.balens.co.uk/services/individual-professionals/more-health-professionals.aspx
     
  39. kitos

    kitos Active Member

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