Welcome to the Podiatry Arena forums

You are currently viewing our podiatry forum as a guest which gives you limited access to view all podiatry discussions and access our other features. By joining our free global community of Podiatrists and other interested foot health care professionals you will have access to post podiatry topics (answer and ask questions), communicate privately with other members, upload content, view attachments, receive a weekly email update of new discussions, access other special features. Registered users do not get displayed the advertisements in posted messages. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our global Podiatry community today!

  1. Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
Dismiss Notice
Have you liked us on Facebook to get our updates? Please do. Click here for our Facebook page.
Dismiss Notice
Do you get the weekly newsletter that Podiatry Arena sends out to update everybody? If not, click here to organise this.

burkini banned on beaches; world getting more ridiculous

Discussion in 'Break Room' started by markjohconley, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. Human Family

    I note the obvious differences
    in the human family.
    Some of us are serious,
    some thrive on comedy.

    Some declare their lives are lived
    as true profundity,
    and others claim they really live
    the real reality.

    The variety of our skin tones
    can confuse, bemuse, delight,
    brown and pink and beige and purple,
    tan and blue and white.

    I've sailed upon the seven seas
    and stopped in every land,
    I've seen the wonders of the world
    not yet one common man.

    I know ten thousand women
    called Jane and Mary Jane,
    but I've not seen any two
    who really were the same.

    Mirror twins are different
    although their features jibe,
    and lovers think quite different thoughts
    while lying side by side.

    We love and lose in China,
    we weep on England's moors,
    and laugh and moan in Guinea,
    and thrive on Spanish shores.

    We seek success in Finland,
    are born and die in Maine.
    In minor ways we differ,
    in major we're the same.

    I note the obvious differences
    between each sort and type,
    but we are more alike, my friends,
    than we are unalike.

    We are more alike, my friends,
    than we are unalike.

    We are more alike, my friends,
    than we are unalike.


    Maya Angelou
     
  2. We are all alike..?

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  3. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    I have made myself quite clear Mark. Again I will try to accommodate you with a succinct (as possible) & clear clarification... without the desire or requoting myself (because obviously that will defeat the purpose I assume).

    - I entered this thread at post #20... to highlight the fact that one does not need to necessarily go to their local mosque to get answers from an "Imam" (as was suggested). The answers can be found within the expressed sentiments of "normal muslims" as well as research polls which have collated answers to what (millions)general muslims believe. In post #20, I cited a video (to show what "normal muslims" express & agree to - there was about 1500 individuals in that Norwegian meeting) as well as cite a 2013 Pew Research Centre poll outlining what millions of muslims believe.

    Is that clear so far? I have cited material to show what many (stated) "normal" muslims believe. It's not from me - it's not my view... the whole purpose was to show theirs.

    - The video cited (the 2nd of the two cited in that post was this one)...



    - Again, it is their views. I am just making it available for people to be aware of. Do you understand? I even make note what was specifically said below - just to make things real clear (I hope)...

    - The video states:
    - [56 sec.] "These are general views that every muslim has - every muslim believes in these things. Just because they are not telling you about it or just because they are not out in the media, doesn't mean they don't believe in them".

    Now what would these things be?

    - [1.13] "I will ask you, every one in the room (which is reported to be about 1500 in attendance). How many of you are normal muslims? You not extremists, you not radical - just normal Sunni muslims - please raise your hand. Everybody" (according to the speaker)

    - [1.52] "How many of you agree that the punishments described in the Quran & sunna - whether it is death, whether it is stoning for adultery, whatever it is, if it is from Allah & his messenger - that is the best punishment ever possible for human kind - & that is what we should apply in the world? Who agrees with that? (most of the about 1500 audience raise their hands) Allahu Akbar. Are you all radical extremists? So all of you are saying that you are common muslims, you all go to the different mosques in Norway, or are you like a specific sect... are you like that - no. Please raise your hand if you are like this extreme islam or sect or anything like that? No one (yes, on one rises their hands). Allahu Akbar"

    Ok - that is what the speaker stated... & what the vast majority of the congregation agrees with.

    - Can you understand that this is a valid source as to what "normal muslims" believe.

    - Do you see a problem with such views? Do you believe that the likes of me (an agnostic) could be subjected to death?

    - (I'll speak about myself here) I know I'm a "kefir" (infidel) in the eyes of islam. Do you think I deserve the death penalty? Do you think other people (who was noted in the video) deserve the death penalty? Is this not an important issue to raise & to assess... & to make aware of (being that the speaker said that "every muslim believes in these things" - & the congregation agreeing with such)? I think so - & that's why I did so!

    - Another source of muslims beliefs was that 2013 Pew Research Centre poll... accounting for the views of millions of muslims (found in post #20 - not going to rehash it here again) i.e. figures (number of people) on views pertaining to sharia law from different regions of the world (alarming)... https://muslimstatistics.files.word...ldwidemuslimspopulation-pew-analysis-copy.jpg Alarming because, refuges coming from some of these areas will no doubt (& they do) bring their views/beliefs with them.

    - There are other polls i.e. Al Jazeera Arabic Poll - about 81% of Muslims surveyed support Islamic State... link: http://www.aljazeera.net/votes/pages?voteid=5270
    It's in Arabic (scroll side bar on the left)... هل تعتبر تقدم تنظيم الدولة الإسلامية في العراق وسوريا لصالح المنطقة؟ (you can use Google Translation). Click on an answer... then click highlighted box for results.

    - Another poll shows another alarming trend: conducted by The Polling Company for the Center for Security Policy (CSP) http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy....uslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/

    So that's it. My "position" (as you asked) was to highlight/expose what has clearly been cited as views/sentiments from "normal muslims" or those millions of muslims surveyed via the likes of the Pew Research poll. OK? I didn't voice these views (which is the big point here); I wasn't the one providing the answers... I have just cited them from muslims themselves or from sources questioning muslims pertaining to islamic topics.

    I am an agnostic (no affiliation with a religious group & thus do not support any religious persuasion)... I am just a person trying to live happily on this god forsaken planet who is sick to death of the amount of violence predominantly stemming from islam... & the muslims apologists who try & tell me otherwise (despite the likes of above cited evidence & frequent world news events)... & the ones committing intellectual suicide trying to excuse such evident barbaric, vile, intolerant, debasing, misogynistic traits as not really of islam (the so-called "religion of peace"). By all means, bitch & carry on about other religions if you want - but this thread was discussing islam - hence why I have used islam examples. Is that clear?!

    My other posts here on this thread have mainly been answering either questions or accusations (some of which have been lame, bankrupt &/or bias in nature) from either you (Mark R) or from Mark J i.e. at 25 (i.e. your rant about "men in suits" causing injustice), 27 (my rant on the "cancerous trending of political correctness"), 29 (Mark J's reference to "Zionism" & the semantics thereof), 31 (more to Mark J's use of "Zionism" or other groups to add to a potential list), 33 (addressing Mark R's unsubstantiated misinterpreted B.S post), 35 (agreeing with Bill Liggins point), 37 (addressing Mark R's confusion post).

    Oh @#$%! - that wasn't "succinct" at all now was it? I just hope it wasn't too "convoluted"!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  4. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Bill.

    Your question isn't that clear (dare I say "convoluted")... but I have put the effort in to make sense of it & provide you with a sincere answer.

    Before though, just on a technical issue (& sincerely wanting to help you out); I have noticed you are having problems with quoting text (as seen above). The issue is that you left the closing quote HTML "[/QUOTE]" off the end of my cited passage (which I've now added) - this has to be in place (as well as an opening HTML quote tag) for the quote bubble to work.

    You are wanting to know the use/context of the word "subsequently"... as opposed to "consequently" in relation to that passage?

    I think "subsequently" is the better term to be used in the context I intended. However (in hindsight), it would have been better if I phrased the sentence this way:

    I suppose it would have been clearer if I had included "have shown" after "subsequently".

    Anyway, the point is this... just to clarify further...

    The Judaeo-Christian God, Jesus, Buda, various Hindu gods, various so-called religious prophets, Mormonism, Scientologists, Jews, Christians etc... i.e. most religions have been critiqued & ridiculed for many years... & yet I do not see anywhere near the degree of threats & violence we have witnessed when islam is critiqued & ridiculed i.e. in referencing Allah or Muhammad.

    Whilst I don't always agree with Richard Dawkins, it appears he also sees it this way...

    [​IMG]

    Good point Dr Dawkins.

    Now, I don't condone ridicule of religions... I personally feel it best it didn't happen. Sure there are some crazy beliefs out there - bankrupted in logic, reason & evidence... but if it gives people comfort & a sense of belonging (whilst not used to harm, debase, violate other people) then so be it.

    However, others do like to do the above i.e. Monty Python, Mel Brooks films, South Park etc... but heaven forbid if islam/Muhammad come under the same degree & level of satire & criticism. Could you imagine if Monty Python did a comparable "Life of Brian" to islam - we'd have world war III on our hands (if not at least many threats of killings/bombings... which no doubt would be carried out... & no more John Cleese). In fact I have seen an interview between John Cleese & Michael Palin with two Christian denomination leaders pertaining to the Life of Brian movie... & that's all it was - a discussion. I'm sure no one died as the result of the film being made.

    There is South Park however who have depicted Muhammad in at least one of their episodes... & yep - vitriol, threats of violence ensued. Here's the wiki link on the issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/201_(South_Park)#Threats_and_censorship)
    This was put in place...

    [​IMG]

    But many other religions/religious icons/groups are the subject of South Parks writing team & animators without anywhere near the degree of threats, violence, controversy, censorship. There was also that infamous Scientology (Tom Cruise) episode... they didn't like it of course... & I think there was some legal issue taken... but that was about it.

    Of course we remember the Charlie Hebdo issue that resulted in terrorist attacks - of which one attack was fatal (killing 12 staff cartoonists, wounding 11... 4 seriously). How many times has Jesus been the subject of Charlie Hebdo... how many terrorist attacks have there been as a result of this? Zip, zilch, zero.
     
  5. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    The thread, as the original post stated, was about a petulant silly comical action by French local government officials including a ludicrous reason for same, as stated on the fine, mark
     
  6. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Mark J.

    You evidently have a comprehension problem as well don't you... or are you just the victim of your (subconscious) bias. I've pretty much already answered your issues previously. You need to exercise some logic, reason & some consistency...

    Yes. Why? Because your thread was related to the "Islamic faith" - remember? There were people sticking to the subject matter of your thread & subsequently discussing the "Islamic faith" - remember? I (subsequently) came into the discussion at post #20 to address a question/issue pertaining to the "Islamic faith" - remember? I have since have to answer questions (some of which been B.S comprehension problems) relating to the "Islamic faith" - remember? I have provided (multiple times now) why I addressed the "Islamic faith" - remember? I have told you before that problems are not just with the "Islamic faith" - remember? I have stated to you that if you wish to bring up the shortcomings of other religions then do so - remember?

    Don't worry, in spite of my clearly logical reasons why I have discussed the "Islamic faith" on your "Islamic faith" related thread... I won't question why you continually bring up the religion of Judaism (on this thread & on another thread)? (Oh the @#$%# hypocrisy of it all). Like I said, you're entitled to bring up any religion you choose to have a dig at - just don't expect me to answer questions on them (I have better things to do with my time).

    In short, if you don't want the "Islamic faith" discussed then don't submit a thread pertaining to the "Islamic faith" & then don't ask me questions pertaining to the "Islamic faith"... where you just might receive some inconvenient truths which could violate your world view. The logic here is really quite simple!

    The above is the reason why I have discussed the "Islamic faith" on your "Islamic faith" related thread! I just can't state the reason any more simple than that! OK - have you got it now?!

    Yes, got it... we've discussed this now - quite clearly mind you (for anyone with half a brain & more than a couple of neurons to rub together). As stated , I was keeping in the context of religious groups re. your example of my use of islam (in association with "islamophobia"). You put forward "Zionism"... I put forward "Judaism" with relation to the "anti-Semitic" reference you used. Both are valid points but being "Judaism" is a religious group (in keeping with the context of the discussion & examples used) I thought it was a better term to use. Hence why I also stated (which you bring up further down) "we can cite a vast array of overly-sensitive groups" (i.e. nationalist political movements) but that just contributes to moving away from the context of the discussion - of which I thought would be wasting our time.


    Bull****! I have now highlighted to you quite clearly why I was discussing the "islamic faith" on your islamic faith" related thread & answering your questions pertaining to the "islamic faith". I hope now that is clear. Is it any wonder why I get "angsty" (as you wish to interpret it) when I have to keep on outlining the bleeding obvious? Also, you were bringing up examples of Jewish issues/groups on this "islamic faith" thread whilst I submitted a couple of muslim examples i.e. "Muslim Student Association", "Muslim Brotherhood" - hence why I did so. Once again, if you can't handle the consequence of your dialogue without making unsubstantiated accusations (i.e. "one-eyed") then don't get involved. I haven't questioned your intentions for the submitting of this "islamic faith" related thread & the use of Jewish examples against my input. Is it any wonder I sense cognitive biases here?!

    Once again you miss the context here. I said it would be a waste of time if we were to divert down some moronic path whereby we get into a flinging match on naming all types of groups who are seen to violate human rights issues. I wanted to keep within the context of the discussion to avoid going down this path. But hey, if you want to - go right ahead - just don't ask me questions on this. I have addressed your questions/queries pertaining to Jewish issues & of course Islam issues, but as stated numerous times now, my input here was to highlight the evident problems/issues stemming from Islam is the context of this thread & in context of the discussion at the time when I entered the thread at post #20.

    Yep! And it progressed & developed from there... the issue of islam (relating to your cited "petulant silly comical action by French local government officials" incident) was inevitably brought up (by others here - not me) & subsequently discussed (well before my involvement at post #20)... that's how threads usually evolve.

    I hope now that clears things up.
     
  7. Has there been a chemical spill near the Wahroonga River recently??
     
  8. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Still trying to commit intellectual suicide Mark ;)

    Where's that "Wahroonga River" of yours :wacko: :D

    :deadhorse: I've got better things to do! Over to you HAL 9000 (again)...

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016
  9. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Matt,

    Why do you think the other religions have not responded with the same degree of threats and violence over the time period you mention?

    Bill
     
  10. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    Bill:

    For the sake of some round here (including myself) I wasn't going to respond anymore; in fact, this will be my last. Oh, admin... do you want to be open with me about something, let me know... you can contact (via P.M) I'm sure. Either way, I don't care; I really do have more productive things to do & little time to do them.

    Anyway Bill, you asked me a question & initially I was just going to ask you to look at the foundational texts of those religions... & have you figure it out for yourself... as to which best suits the extent of violent & intolerant traits we observe being carried out today. As stated many times... all religions have their crimes... because humans are involved... but some are worse than others... & a good place to start is the foundational texts (what's being instructed the followers to believe & do).

    There are numerous texts within the Quran that incite intolerance, violence & hate (not to mention those found within other islamic writings i.e. the Hadiths). But of course this issue isn't highlighted to the non-Muslim & general public... for various reasons (apart from the obvious)... part of which is the probable (intentional) practice of "Taqiyya" (to lie/deceive the "kefirs"/"infidels" for the cause of islam). It is usually the so-called nice bits (peaceful passages) within the quran which are cited to the general public... but these are often invalidated due to the law of abrogation (Naskh - earlier conceived texts are abrogated/invalidated in favour of later conceived texts). These more peaceful passages are superseded/invalidated by the later violent (jihad) passages. The world can 'thank' Islam's apparent 'inspired' "prophet" for his (ordained) warlord phase (around 622 - 632AD [Medina period]) for most of those barbaric, intolerant & violent texts within the Quran & Hadiths... which have then inspired millions to believe & follow in like footsteps in carrying out the numerous atrocities throughout the Middle East & the world.

    As for the violence, hate & intolerance... the following are some of the more popular examples which muslims use to justify their violence/intolerance (http://corpus.quran.com/) -
    The Quran ("thus says Allah"): quran (2:216); quran (3:56); quran (3:151); quran (4:24) [justifying slavery & rape]; quran (4:74); quran (5:33); quran (8:12); quran (9:5); quran (9:14); quran (9:29); quran (9:30); quran (9:73); quran (17:16); quran (25:52); quran (47:3-4); quran (48:29); quran (61:4); quran (66:9)... & it goes on & on (numerous passages of hate, intolerance, misogyny, violence, bigotry).

    Then there are the Hadiths ("thus says Muhammad"): such as... sahih bukhari (52:177); muslim (1:30); muslim (1:33); muslim (19:4294); muslim (31:5917); muslim (31:5918); bukhari (1:35); bukhari (8:387); bukhari (11:626); tabari (7:97); tabari (9:69); tabari (17:187); ibn ishaq/hisham (484); ibn ishaq/hisham (990); ibn ishaq/hisham (992) etc...

    Your free to cite texts from other religions if you want/can. With that said (from experience on discussions of this nature) the issue of violence within other religions is often brought up i.e. such texts from the Tanakh (Judaism) & the Bible (Christianity). Whilst there is certainly violence cited (which troubles me), one of the most profound differences is that the violence in the Bible is descriptive (in nature) & limited to events in a specific time & place (i.e. moral cleansing of Amalekites, Canaanites, Midianites... due to their pagan & violent practices i.e. heinous immorality & child sacrifice). In contrast, the violent passages in the quran, which are prescriptive (in nature) & are for all followers of islam (all muslims) to carry out regardless of the time & place (meaning today; meaning against Western civilisations; meaning against Christians, Jews, Agnostics, Atheists etc...). I'm Agnostic... who has had varying interest on metaphysical topics... particularly ones that are causing so much turmoil & harm to humanity.

    Most muslims (in the know & who are more open & honest on this issue) would agree with the Islamic doctrinal elements of the above... they've confirmed it to me. But of course, you can take it... or leave it.
     
  11. There is a lot of anger in your recent posts, Matt. I hope you manage to reconcile it.

    Kind regards
    Mark
     
  12. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member

    No Mark - it's called frustration & concern.
    Good bye.
     
  13. Then it's coming across as anger and directed towards those reaching out to you. Everyone is concerned at teachings of violence and hatred - the sight of young children being indoctrinated to carry out atrocities is truly sickening - but as repugnant as it is, we should not be blinded to the indoctrination of western populations by their governments to ignore their own actions that amount to unlawful killings. Over the last decade, how many muslims have died as a result of western military action compared to the number of people murdered by islamic terrorists?

    You will never solve the problem - or your frustration - by fighting, only by listening and talking. It's the only way.
     
  14. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    Matt, the thread was extrapolated to the Islamic faith which is fair enough, I then extended to include other faiths which, again, is fair enough. I comprehend everything you've posted, it ain't difficult.
    Others, including yourself, made it a 'Islam related' thread, again, the title / original post did not necessarily imply any religion need be discussed. It was about the petulance of officialdom and the ridiculousness of the reason for the fine as quoted in the original post.
     
  15. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    Matt, in your post 27, you state,
     
  16. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    That sums it up nicely. Juxtaposing problem and answer. Unfortunately for me it highlights the insurmountable nature of the beast. At least it does in my present state of mind.

    As I read the words of the poem my "mood" changes as I am influenced, consciously and subconsciously by every knowable and unknowable aspect of it. The result is that by the time I reach the repetitious, hypnotic finale, every cell of my body is swaying to its rhythm and my head is nodding in total agreement with the sentiment.

    But fortunately, in survival terms and unfortunately in terms of consistency, another of life's "poems" comes along and the man that was, is no more. We are consistently inconsistent and even when we think we return to a previous mental state we are wrong. In the intervening period every atom of the universe has moved on and the cyclic nature of moods is more accurately a three hundred and sixty degree rotation not forming a circle but a spiral. Not a upward progression towards better things, more of an undulating white knuckle ride to nowhere, full of sound and fury signifying a white knuckle ride to nowhere, full of sound and fury signifying a white knuckle ride to nowhere full of sound and fury signifying?

    Bill
     
  17. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Matt,

    Would the short answer be:

    1. The religious texts of all monotheistic religions, at least, contain passages which can and are used by followers to justify their beliefs and actions and some of these passages condone violence either at the hands of, 'true' believers or the one 'true' God?

    2. Christian texts may largely, though not exclusively, be defined as descriptive in contrast to Islamic texts which may be defined as prescriptive. Prescriptive is "worse" than descriptive?

    Is that a fair summary of your response?

    Bill
     
  18. [​IMG]
     
Loading...

Share This Page