Can Abnormal Pronation Change the Occlusion

Yes. If I claimed that enucleating a corn stopped it hurting, how much evidence would you need to believe me? If I claimed removing a corn cured hair loss, how much then?

The demand for evidence is inexorably linked to the claims the evidence seeks to support. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

Which paper were you referring to? Kevin's paper on rotational equilibrium was a theoretical paper providing a framework with which to understand the cause and potential treatment of pathology. That paper creates a rationale for treatment choices that can be researched at a later time. From that paper you get the idea that medially deviated STJ axis foot may be more likely to get posterior tibial dysfunction than a foot with an average STJ axis location, because the model predicts there will be increased stress on the tendon. Whereas functional foot typing does not provide any rationale to make predictions.

Eric

 

Wrong paper... Once again you are making up your own straw man argument and wasting everyones time.
I luv Kevin's SALRE Paper and quote it often.

Never discussed foot typing on this thread, why are you?

Dennis

 

The problem with your statement is who is deciding what is an extraordinary claim.

In this case, you and your inherited and learned bias.

If my claim was that Jesus was god and I'm trying to convince a group of Christians, do I need extraordinary evidence?

I maintain that EBM rises above all that, or does it?

Dennis

 

So, are you going to tell us which paper you were critizing?

To illustrate my point that sometimes you can do research based on theory versus other times you just try something and see if it works. (Dennis, maybe one of these days you will tell us what you are doing differently based on foot types.) I haven't read enough of Brian's work to know if he provides a logical connection between the foot and the alleged changes at the jaw.

Eric

 

Excuse me for my ignorance...but what bearing does this have on anything?

 

Which is what exactly what? (the only profession that I know of that uses that language is a very minute number of chiropractors who practice the Atlas Orthogonal technique. They comprise less than 1% of the profession btw).

What is "more orthogonal"? Is "less orthogonal" bad? what defines the optimal "orthogonal" relationship of the fixed bones of the human skull?

Which means what exactly? The relative amount of movement between the fixed sutures of the cranial bones is a very contested subject but even if there is a minute amount of movement what does this possibly tell us? How does this provide clues to physical suffering and resultant treatment Brian?

Even if there is a link between the temporal bones and the occlusion, you cannot provide any real evidence of a link between the bones of the feet and these structures or the atlas for that matter.

So would I as I enjoy a mad circus. Bring in the clowns!:dizzy:

Brian you have wasted a lifetime providing a tome of subjective evidence of an obscure subject, of no meaningful clinical importance and all with an epic lack of objective evidence to back it up.

 

None whatsoever unless an unsuspecting public decides their symptoms may be because of Brain''s self-proclaimed fantasy foot and is steered away from appropriate and medically necessary care, being promptly relieved of their hard earned Euro's in the process.

I hope you would agree that your colleagues should question Brian when he makes such ridiculous claims about his insoles (they increase fertility you know ).

Then there's this:

Please share Brian, I'd enjoy just one of relevance to the topic.

 

omg You radiographed someones head for this?!

 

Also..how can you name a foot structure after yourself? Isnt there some kind of law against that? Oh wow..I just saw a lady with a FPI that indicates that she may have Sutherland Foot Type..and there you go..Ive done it too woohoo. I should start making insoles to help with that foot type..It may save her from having to get a shoulder reconstruction. I better back that up with some radiation. Juvenile I may be..but really?! Can you not sell snake oil under some other professional title so we dont all look cray cray?

 

I do believe Pippa gets it! Brian no longer has a podiatry license, it's all very complicated..

 

Dennis:

Hope you and your loved ones are staying safe with Sandy hitting New York City so hard.:drinks

 

Brian seems to be a man without a country. Was a podiatrist in Washington State in the USA but lost his podiatry license. Then he moved to Mexico for awhile. Then he set up practice in Italy. And now he is in Spain selling proprioceptive insoles.

Why does Brian have to move to different countries so often, I wonder?

 

100 years ago - and more, it was all the rage. Tom McMurray had McMurray's osteomety of the femoral neck; he was my grandfathers cousin. Jimmy Lytle, a general surgeon had "Lytle's ring in the inguinal canal - he was my grandmothers cousin. Today, one would be embarrased to have such such association, but that was then, now is now. Think about osteochondrosis - Frieberg's infraction, Kholer's disease, Sever's disease - etc etc etc! Pompous arses! My life's work is the hominoid hindfoot - MMMmmm Kidd's talus, I think so! (Not)

 

Sorry folks, that is one thing I can not take credit for (i.e., Rothbarts Foot). The term was first suggested/introduced by a fellow in Tacoma Washington (I believe) by the name of Bjorn Svae. Surprisingly the term stuck and is now, when one does a Google search, you see it used frequently.

So kindly fling your arrows in Mr Svae's direction.

Personally, I have been aware of Rothbart's Foot all my life. Everytime I look downward, there it is. And I must admit it does come in handy - makes walking quite easy. I guess it they weren't there, Mr Svae would have to rename the foot structure 'Rothbarts Stump'.

Actually I was thinking about naming a condition I discovered, Rothbarts Toe. What happens is: every so often when someone flight b.s. my way, the 3rd toe on my right foot sticks straight up (much like what happens on your hand).

So there you have it, Rothbarts Toe. Remember, I named the condition first!

Brian

 

This is actually interesting, bordering on relevant

To my mind, ebm and evidence does not rise above that because it IS that.

Dave Smith would put this better than me, but I see it thus. Evidence does not exist for fft, or salre, or pci's in an abstract sense because evidence cannot exist in an abstract sense. There must be a hypothesis, or a specific question, for which one can seek evidence.

So, for example, the suggestion that insoles shift temporal bones requires evidence to support it. The suggestion that a medial heel skive exerts a greater supination moment than an insole without one is another.

So ebm, the evidence to support, each of the models, cannot be considered en masse, but must be considered for each of the claims individually.


If my position was that I have a guitar, a cat, and 17 spiders in my house, you'd need three chunks of evidence to support them. The last would be difficult to obtain with confidence so would have to be very GOOD evidence.

If your position was that you had a swimming pool in your garden, you need only one piece of evidence, and that would be fairly easy to obtain.

So yes, the sorts of evidence required Are inexorably linked to the hypotheses they support. That's why some areas of medicine are so much better supported by evidence than others. It's relatively easy to test the effect of a diabetes drug on blood sugar, very hard to test the effect of antipsychotic drugs on mood.

 

The last time this topic came up I went on a hunt for literature; much of what I found is linked to in this thread: http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showthread.php?t=43566

 

If that is the case, why have we spent three years+ calling for evidence for abstractions like SALRE, FFT and ???. What is it's real and productive purpose.

When it comes to biomechanics, isn't it necessary to honestly visit and test all abstractions in practice, question its authors for assistance when speed bumps present themselves so that the biomechanical community, as a whole, can discover the weaknesses and strengths of new theories for possible integration or elimination of some or all of its elements.

I maintain that The Arena has done that for SALRE and Dr Kirby but has never honestly visited other theories in the same manner.
For the life of me, I will never understand why.

Even Dr Rothbart, having spent his life working with and contemplating biomechanics from a unique perspective, has threads of genius that when plucked from his total theory which I don't fully understand and accept, has added elements to my body of biomechanics.

Using my Rootian foundation, I have visited Dananberg, Kirby, Payne, Nigg, Glaser as well as ancestors such as Hicks and Munson and many more, honestly, in order to continue developing the biomechanical box that I live in these 40 years.

I believe that classifying feet into subgroups and then examining, treating and researching them, foot type-specific has positive elements within it.

Dennis

 

This is simply breath-taking! :dizzy:

"He fitted her with the appropriate proprioceptive insoles and within several weeks she became pregnant. Does this prove anything, no."

Well first of all, let me congratulate you on a brief and fleeting burst of common sense - you are correct, NO, it proves nothing. But you state that, and yet you still have the temerity to cite this 'testimonial' on your website. This strikes me as more than a little disingenuous, because implicit in the testimonial (which is on a website that promotes these devices] is a causal suggestion, namely that the woman wore the 'proprioceptive insoles' and then became pregnant. Now I hope people are not so gullible, but there may be numerous female members of the general public out there who have access to the internet and who are unable for one reason or another to become pregnant. They will see this, and then out of desperation spend their money on a pair of these insoles. And you've just said on this site that it proves nothing! My goodness, that doesn't sit well with me!

On top of that, you are using the descriptor 'proprioceptive' as a selling point for these insoles. They can in no way precipitate a 'proprioceptive response' and you must know that. I feel as though I am baying at the moon here, but perhaps you could enlighten the on-line community here as to why your insoles are 'proprioceptive' devices. igs:

Of course the testimonial is shot through with post hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning. The lady starts wearing the insoles and then shortly afterwards, she becomes pregnant. Pardon me for being fatuous, but if I had been walking down the main street in the city where I live and a bird had sh*t on my head, and then a couple of days later, my long-standing verruca miraculously resolved, I wouldn't suggest to my patients who had verrucae to start rubbing guano into their scalps, nor would I sell guano under my own name by the bottle to my patients stating that, with persistence, this might resolve your lesion. I'm sure that my fellow colleagues would pooh-pooh such behaviour!

My apologies, but when I see such jaw-dropping statements on a site such as this, it saddens me.

Signing off,

Eric.

 

Brian:

Here you are, a man that supposedly has a PhD, and then thinks we are so foolish to believe that the reason you continually call a foot with a rearfoot varus and or forefoot varus deformity a "Rothbart's Foot" is because someone suggested you name it after yourself. The only reason you named a foot after yourself and continue to claim that you "discovered" this "Rothbarts foot" is because you think it will make you more money in doing so. End of story.

How many websites do you have Brian?! Here's one. http://www.rothbartsite.com/

Did your scapegoat, Mr. Svae, also tell you to come up with the following names on your website:

Rothbart Questionnaire
Rothbart Proprioceptive Therapy

No, Brian, you continue to promote yourself as some sort of phenomenal healer with great knowledge but, you are no more than a snake-oil salesman that wants to gain a personal fortune by preying on the desperate people around the world that have chronic pain.

Here is another one of your websites: http://curingchronicpain.com/what-is-the-rothbarts-foot

Where you talk about another very common, previously described foot type that you decided to name after yourself.

And then here is another website you created to fleece desperate people with chronic pain out of their money just to fatten your own wallet.

http://www.foreverfreefromchronicpain.com/

On further research, it seems that some individuals with GRD BioTech, Inc. think that you, Brian, are saying things about the very insoles you created that aren't true and that you now claim that the insoles you created shouldn't be now sold for $49.95 since they can only be dispensed by you or from someone trained at the International Academy of Rothbart Propioceptive Therapy. Did Mr. Svae also suggest that you create a made-up academy named after yourself on the internet in order to make it seem that you have some special knowledge that only you can impart to people? Snake oil.

http://rothbartsfoot.com/

Brian, again, how do you sleep at night knowing that you are robbing people out of their hard earned money by making fantastic claims on your multiple websites that are specifically designed to make these desperate people send you their money to "cure their chronic pain"? Do you have no conscience?

 

Kirby,

Have you seen Rothbarts Toe? Posts like your last one, surely would make you an expert on this foot structure.

Brian

By the way, I did not appreciate your comment on my patient blog website.

 

Rothbart:

Please tell all of us how Anna Nicole Smith supposedly may have died of Rothbart's Foot?

http://curingchronicpain.com/did-anna-nicole-smith-die-because-of-undiagnosed-foot-abnormality

What is your PhD in anyway, Rothbart? It is hard for me to believe that anyone with a genuine PhD could make such bizarre statements, such as the ones you made regarding Anna Nicole Smith, and expect anyone to believe that any of the other fantastic claims you make on your multiple self-promotional websites are nothing more than delusions.

 

Kevin,

I am privileged to be among that elite set of practitioners with experience of Dr. Rothbart's methodology, both in the assessment of the Rothbart Foot and prescription of this unique orthotic design. I am guessing some of the readers here may be unfamiliar with it, so I can, perchance, include pictures of said item for your enjoyment. I found it, in my trusty genuine World Ward 2 US Army box.

How did I first get by this rarity of items? I opted to investigate this treatment modality, several years ago. And blogged about it, on this very website. Curiously, at the time, it cured my plantar fasciitis. But that's anecdotal.

Anyways, take a look! On closer inspection you may think there is very little to it. But, appearances can be deceptive. Yes, on face value it may be no more than a simple elevation under the 1st ray. But do not forget, there is the option to add a valgus rest, to said piece of product. Back in my day of Podiatry school (circa 1876 I think) students were taught to call this a "shaft pad" +/- a "valgus rest". How naive! It is so much more than that.

I can vouch for it's efficacy - after applying the item to trusty sneaker my tangentially lopsided smile transformed with a tractographic evidence of 4 degrees (north/south I can't recall). Yes, I admit it isn't easy taking this measurement from a bathroom mirror, especially without glasses, but I ask Podiatry Arena to please accept my sincere word for it? It may well have improved my pelvic alignment too, but I cannot be certain of that.

What's more, since I am already "on the bandwagon" I do not foresee any technical issues with dispensing the item, and I sure could use the money to ease the pressure off my student debt. Now, I don't know, and I wonder if you can advise, can I levy a fee of 30,000E? I think it's worth every penny! E-bay, maybe?

Or is that too much?

 

Ya Damn right...

"Who's the black private dick
That's a sex machine to all the chicks?
Shaft, ya, damn right

Who is the man that would risk his neck
For his brother man?
Shaft, can you dig it?

Who's the cat that won't cop out
When there's danger all about?
Shaft, right on

They say this cat Shaft is a bad mother
Shut your mouth
But I'm talkin' 'bout Shaft
Then we can dig it

He's a complicated man
But no one understands him but his woman
John Shaft"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwTtl8IydcA&feature=related

If you paid 30,000E for a pair of these then you truly have been "shafted".

 

Yeah, but did it cure your infertility also?? Brian Rothbart, self-proclaimed, Father of Chronic Pain Elimination, discoverer of Rothbarts foot, may be using your case on all of his websites to show the power of his "proprioceptive insoles"....

Dieter, please show Rothbart's websites to all of the students at the New York College of Podiatric Medicine to demonstrate a classic example of a Snake Oil Salesman in today's modern culture. They will hopefully all learn from his sad example.....

What a joke, Rothbart, Father of Chronic Pain Elimination???? Did Mr. Svae also force you to name yourself the "Father of Chronic Pain Elimination" on all the websites listed below? Never can sell enough Snake Oil, now can we.......Rothbart?!

http://curingchronicpain.hubpages.com/

http://www.happyabout.com/nopain.php

http://foreverfreefromchronicpain.com/PressMediaKit.html

http://www.positivehealth.com/author/brian-a-rothbart-phd

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dir/Professor/Dr/Rothbart

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/03/prweb2244854.htm

 

Kevin,

Prof. Rothbart has not included my foot malady as a testimonial. I am surveying this information. I am assuming that I can keep up with all of them. It's all about money, so I want a cut if my name appears in print without prior consent.

As for my fertility potential, I will need to field test your impression.

Wait, on second thoughts maybe not. NYCPM is a jealous mistress.

Now that I have re-discovered my stash of Posture Control Insoles, thanks to Podiatry Arena!, I will slip them back in my sneakers - might help with Board Part II, looming ahead this January.

Hey, you never know!

 

Therefore on an email email from an obscure obs/gyn doctor in Nigeria regarding retroversion of the cervix as a possible inhibitory factor in conception counts as "seen in practice, observed in research"? After the discussion we had a couple of years ago on this subject, I am surprised to see you mention it again, especially given the conclusions. You're a shrewd operator, Brian, with your career coach and glitzy websites and cure-all claims. Remove the bling and glamour and a desperate con-man still plies his trade. One hopes the Italians and Spanish have good grace and polite discretion.

 

Wow, if foot posture in walking changes the cranial bone alignment....running must really do a number on us..you'd think we'd all have impact sport induced migraines..

 

Didnt think of that marketing edge? Ps I want a cut..

 

Perhaps that's why runners grimace..change in postural alignment

 

Retarded ejaculation comes to mind when perusing Brian's seminal work...puns intended...

 

Becoming humility I feel. If someone else calls you that one might enjoy a moment of satisfaction. To use the title in your marketing is a little... odd.

I wonder where someone would get an idea like that

 

We haven't. You have.

What we've been calling for is evidence for specific claims or concepts WITHIN "wellness biomechanics". Like the hypothesis that a certain type of insole can make the foot funtion more effectively, either than no insole, or on an insole based on a different paradigm (for example).

 

Hi Dieter,

I am perplexed. IARPT, has no record that you even obtained Level I Certification. So your experience with the Primus Metatarsus Supinatus Foot structure must be based on self training and purely anecdotal.

Treating yourself in this way can end up with very undesirable results. As the saying goes, anyone treating themselves, has a fool for a doctor.

Brian

 

Brian,

Hilarious! 'nuff said .....

 

Brian,

Hilarious! 'nuff said .....

p.s. who taught you?

p.p.s. it could be much worse.... some poor witless soul might have YOU as a doctor

 

**** me.....International Academy of Rhubarbs Proprioceptive Therapy - what a complete wanker. Bet he would have Rhubarb tattooed on his member if there had been fewer letters.... Amazing. Whatever next ...Shavelson University of Quantum Mechanics?

 

The above quote by our own Mark Russell is hereby nominated as best Podiatry Arena quote for 2012.

Thanks for the chuckles, Mark!:drinks

 

Surprised by this. According to the good people atGRD biotech

So GRD was created to sell Rothbarts proprioceptive insoles through drug stores to the public, which you were happy to endorse at the time.

But then in 2009 you stopped collecting Royalties. And now you're ANTI people using these insoles other than by people trained through IARPT... which you run.

When was IARPT set up I wonder. Circa 2009 perhaps?

How much would a level 1 IARPT qualification me Brian?


So you were

 

Brian likes to remind those visiting his numerous websites of his level of education and professional titles. Here is the list from his website:

http://www.rothbartsite.com/About_Professor_Rothbart.html

Brian where did you complete a Master's level program and Doctor of Natural Medicine (now Naturopathic Doctor/ND)? Every professional that I know of lists the college they graduated from.

Since Brian refers to himself as "Professor/Dr. Rothbart", a title conferred on those completing PhD and Doctoral level work, I feel knowing where the "father of chronic pain elimination" earned these titles. We know Brian held a DPM degree previously, which was revoked in the State of Washington. I believe that it is "unprofessional conduct" to represent to the public that you are a Doctor of Podiatric Medicine if you do not have a current license or the license has been revoked Brian.

Where did "Professor/Dr. Brian Rothbart obtain his alleged PhD?

A little further reading about the "university" where Brian claims to have earned the title he uses to today:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Pacific_University

Scandalous. You're a real piece of work Rothbart. The Spanish and Italian medical boards should publicly flog your rhubarb.