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Create your own economic UP turn?

Discussion in 'Practice Management' started by POD FLA, Dec 17, 2008.

  1. POD FLA

    POD FLA Welcome New Poster


    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    I speak to podiatrists all the time in relation to a website I am a team member for.... a site ONLY for Podiatrists.

    One of the things I hear is: if I stop looking for patients, they'll stop looking for me too!

    If you decide that because the economy is down, that it is suddenly wise to stop promoting yourself, you are simply leaving business "on the table". There are lots of patients who just need a little coaching or prompting to pick themselves up and do something about their conditions regardless of economic conditions and one of the ways that happens is when they see articles, websites, information posted on the internet regarding their conditions.... something that relates to them.

    I also found that many Podiatrists are now using articles posted on the web to attract patients who are seeking out information on the web about their conditions and a well written article or website can give that patient just enough comfort level to pick up a phone and schedule and appointment... IF the article directly addresses their condition or IF your website makes them feel comfortable with you. Do not post too many links in the article, just one link directly to your own website or make sure your easily accessible by providing our phone and email address in the bottom of the article.

    I also urge you to join a website portal dedicated ONLY to Podiatrists and do not allow those portals to talk you into expensive member fees.... there ARE some that are very reasonable and provide useful services including patient referrals.
    The most important thing to remember about those "portals" is that there is nothing more important than the quality of the visits, not the shear number of visits. Find a portal where patients can easily search for a podiatrist and address their conditions, quickly and easily.

    Have a great day today
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  2. Dave Kingston

    Dave Kingston Member

    [Check4SPAM] RE: URL Attempt

    POD FLA

    Ok.

    Over in some of the other forum sections we don't hold back when it comes to people promoting their products without evidence.

    I am going to do the same here.

    You are promoting the use of the internet to promote Podiatry businesses and that is a good thing. My site produces about 10-15% of my referrals a month and it keeps the wolf from the door.

    However, your 'post' is an advert for your site www.podiatrists.comm (2 mm's so as not to make it a link).

    You mention article marketing which is great tool for web marketing and I use it effectively. That is the one good point in your post. Now the rest.

    Some of this is technical so apologies if your reading this and are not POD FLA or technically minded.

    Your site is a portal. Portals have very poor SEO benefits. They are not geo-targeted and portal sites usually never do any web marketing to deep links only to the index (their part not your info pages that they sold to you). This is the case here.

    How do I know that...

    This site has a few SEO (search engine optimization) issues

    1. Google has indexed 45 pages and only 1 is a podiatry practice page which doesn't actually have any info on it except the 2 words 'Brighton Podiatry'

    Search engines can only show you information if the pages are indexed. Otherwise onbody will find it.

    2. Users have to fill in a form to get your details. Usage studies show most people using Google want info now and will NOT give a third party website their details to get some details of a local service.

    3. Backlinks. This site does not understand how to SEO properly. Most of their backlinks are from business sites and not relevant podiatry sites. They link using their URL and not any useful in context anchor text. If you understand search marketing you will understand how important this is.

    4. SERPS and PageRank. This site has a PR of 2 (not a big issue on its own) but in SERPS there are many sites that rank above it for "Find a Podiatrist" with a PR of Zero and even N/A. This means that Google recognizes other sites above it for this search term.

    All this adds up to podiatrists being sold a pup. This company, and many like it promote search engine marketing and then don't do it themselves.

    So how can they claim to be No1 in Google?

    PPC. Pay Per Click advertising. Those ads in the right hand side and top of the google search results are ads. They are paying for it.

    So the site that promotes the internet is buying clicks. But not all clicks are equal.

    They are paying for the term "Find a podiatrist". Ok so how is that problematic.

    Well. If you live in Winchester, Idaho you are more likely to search "Find a podiatrist Winchester" and this site doesn't pay for Winchester for that term. They pay for some cities but not all.

    So their claims of being top in Google are just a smoke screen. In the internet marketing world claiming No1 in Google by buying the position is not considered ethical marketing.

    Also, this position is only for as long as a site continues to pay for that advert. If they stop then the position disappears. So all of the marketing for your 'paid for' web page on their site is gone too.

    Also, the phrase "Find a podiatrist" is only searched for in the USA 480 times a month and the max cost per click charged by Google is $1.23 per click. In the unlikely event that every single search ended with their advert being clicked they would pay at a max $590. All they need is 2 customers to be in profit from their 'main' advertising medium.

    Now, they do pay for other terms like podiatrist etc but they are too broad to be any good to a clinic in a small city. They are just not targeted enough.

    If you have a clinic in Winchester, Idaho then you want to be top in the search results for "Podiatrist Idaho" or "Podiatrist Winchester idaho".

    Why do I care...

    Because they are charging $495 a year for a useless page on the internet that will not be seen that much.

    I don't know about you but $495 is a fair chunk out of my budget for marketing and I know that I can rank very highly in Google for my local phrases. How do I know that? Cause I do rank highly for local phrases.

    How much did it cost me? A hell of a lot less that $495.

    Buyer beware. Know your stuff about search and internet marketing before signing up for portals. They look pretty but are very very ineffective marketing tools.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2008
  3. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    According to both Wordtracker and Overture, no one actually uses the terms 'find a podiatrist' to search Google, so its not a lot of good ranking number one for a term that no one actually looks for!

    What people do search for is things like "podiatrist in city", "find a podiatrist in city".

    From my quick check the two most common searchs in USA are actually: "connecticut find a podiatrist" and "find a podiatrist on nantucket"


    BTW, the site in NOT ranked number one in Google. It may be in Google.com when searching from the USA; its not even in the top 100 for 'find a podiatrist' when searching Google.com from Australia.
     
  4. POD FLA

    POD FLA Welcome New Poster

    I did not suggest that find a podiatrist was the ONLY keyword we are found with.... I merely suggested you do a search using that term as one example.

    Site shows up VERY nicely organically, usually on page 1 of google (in USA) and usually near the top of the page. Naturally as an organic listing that can fluctuate.. tonight in the US it's near top of page two at this very moment in time doing a search for find a podiatrist. We also have an aggressive paid campaign that we rotate with 5 other websites of ours. You can say all you want negatively about a paid campaign. It's usually the sites that do not pay for a paid campaign that have the most negative comments to say about it :)

    Most important, we are getting actual patients EVERY single day requesting assistance in finding a podiatrist in their local area in the event there is none in their area on our site at this time. We then courteously research a local podiatrist that accepts their insurance and make sure they are accepting new patients at this time before referring the patient. Those PODS are very happy to accept the new patient and soon after seeing that benefit, join as members of our community.

    So no matter HOW these patients are finding our site....
    they are finding it :)

    And yes we ARE a young site so we don't expect miracles overnight and neither should anyone else. We don't preach miracles either. As for 495.00 that was WITH a custom website and unique URL. It is less if you have your own website you want to link to. We do not profess to be the best thing since sliced bread.

    You are very fortunate to have a nice ranking with a low out of pocket cost.. the cost of which you have not shared (and I don't expect you to). However, the average website owner is probably not nearly as web savvy as you are... what you did takes work and time and you should be proud you've been able to achieve what you have.

    Your contention that a portal is a bad place to have a presence is not very fair. There are thousands of portals on the web, some that both business and consumers benefit from on a daily basis and have very high traffic counts because there is interest in their information. The idea is to draw targeted traffic to that portal and have the visitors search the portal..... this is not a new concept.

    Now you made this statement: Now, they do pay for other terms like podiatrist etc but they are too broad to be any good to a clinic in a small city. They are just not targeted enough.

    How targeted does it need to be for someone who is looking for a podiatrist finds their way to a website, and searches the site for a podiatrist or clinic in their small city? :)

    I did not post on this site for the purpose of getting into a post VS post. Thank you for your candid opinions and, thank you for participating in this thread and I wish you a Merry Christmas and happy new year coming up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  5. One very obvious question that comes to mind here.....why is it that nearly all American podiatrists won't take the time to post here on Podiatry Arena unless they are also trying to sell something?:confused: :confused:
     
  6. DaVinci

    DaVinci Well-Known Member

    Did you (or the company you work for really spend this much to buy the domain name?
    Source
     
  7. joejared

    joejared Active Member

    There's another site I, well used to reference. Scratch this post though. I just discovered footweb.net is defunct. Oh well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  8. Must be a desire to promote their own niche product, whether that be miracle orthoses or all singing and dancing search engines. To illustarate the division between some US podiatrists and the rest of the world (i.e. east of the New Jersey shoreline) I recall visiting a well known NY podiatry office in 1989 and spending a day with its owner. There were six patients booked in for the afternoon session and I was asked to observe the consultations and give my opinion on the diagnoses, treatment plans and, most importantly, how much each patient would be worth to the practice over the next year. At the end of the session we compared notes. The diagnoses were straightforward and we were pretty much in agreement, however treatment options certainly varied - with surgery being planned for even the most simple of problems. For example, one young lady with a lesser toe HD was scheduled for a digital arthroplasty when simple footwear advice would have alleviated the problem. The latter was not even discussed.

    When it came to the 'valuation' I concluded the six patients would generate something in the region of $800 for the practice over the coming 12 months - but being Manhatten, I doubled this to $1,600. Was I close? Not even in the same ball-park. The podiatrist's valuation was between $18,000 and $22,000

    Interesting way to create your own economic up-turn I guess....

    Maybe part of the problem is the neccessity to repay the enormous student loans DPMs have to take out to qualify. How much indebtedness does a newly qualified DPM have these days?
     
  9. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    All in the UK

    Sorry I'm not very savvy on the technical terms for web commerce but;
    For the general public in the UK the term 'chiropodist' is still a familiar name used for podiatrists. The search 'find a chiropodist' finds the Society of Chiropodists link as the first on the list. This links to any Society member podiatrist who has registered their practice on that site. This is free service to members. Also near the top is 'find a chiropodist.com' this links to a site that gives links to personal business web sites for a very competitive fee (some might say cheap at £30/annum). I have no interest in either of these sites other than I use them myself and they are useful for business and you might want to try them.

    Dave Kingston
    Thanks for your useful post, you appear to be very knowledgeable in this area.
    Perhaps you could post some 'top tips' to optimise SEO for our own websites.
    I've had mine up and running for some time (it's self build using an online web builder product) but it never gets found by any search engine except Google occasionally, at about 1 millionth in the list. Customers usually find my website direct from advertising eg Yell.com yellow pages, local paper or links like above.
    Therefore direct searches do not account for much business I'm sure I am not the only one so any advice here would be greatly appreciated I expect.

    Cheers Dave
     
  10. twirly

    twirly Well-Known Member

    Hi all,

    I have seen some very impressive Podiatry web sites (some members here have websites in their information which I usually follow the link to for a peep).
    I suppose much depends on your client base.

    I would prefer a patient to have been recommended to me by an existing patient or their GP, Physio etc. Rather than to rely on internet sources. I believe that communication within professional networks is far superior to web advertising. Although as a mere BSc. Pod' I am not qualified to perform boney surgery. If you were seeking a surgeon to perform a procedure upon yourself or a family member would you ask your own professional contacts for advice or trawl the net for the best ads?

    However, I do use some online sites (not my own web page, for the reasons given). All of the sites I advertise with are FREE eg. http://www.freeindex.co.uk/

    I have a distrust of advertisers generally (no personal insult intended).

    In my experience, advertisers are usually trying to sell more than you really generate in income.

    I also appreciate that DPMs in the USA have a quite different scope of practice than I do in the UK. Do most DPMs advertise on the internet?

    May everyone have a happy & successful new year. :drinks
     
  11. blinda

    blinda MVP

    I don`t mean to detract from the theme of this thread, my website is still in its early stages of planning, so would apprecaite any tips. However, I very much agree with Twirls here, but it is hard work to formulate such referral/recommendation relationships with professions that are not fully aware of what the scope of pratcice of a podiatrist is, particularly so with GPs. (Patient presenting with PF informed me last week that when he asked his GP if there is anyone who specialises in feet and legs, was informed that no such profession exists:bang:)

    I have made a point of contacting all the GPs, physios and chiropractors in my geographical area, inroducing myself, detailing treatment that I proffer with the offer to to perform a 5 minute presentation to explain the podiatrists role in multi disciplinary care. As a result, i do have some GPs who refer, but certainly not as many as I would like.

    Does anyone else approach other disciplines, and with what response are you met?

    Cheers,
    Bel
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  12. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    Bel

    Very little business comes by way of direct referral from medical professionals, this is mainly because most go to the NHS if they have been to their GP first. Otherwise they come by indirect referral IE GP advice to go to a chiropodist/podiatrist or NHS don't do routine chiropody and advise private.

    Apart from your personal preference I can't agree with you or twirls. I would rather a patient came straight to me with their foot pain than waste time and effort and cash going to GP physios, osteo's, casualty dept etc. Also I would like them to come to me rather than some other podiatrist, since their cash looks much better in my bank account than someone else's. Often GP's and other health professionals have not much more idea about what is causing the pain than the patient does (except when its arthritis or plantar facsiitis of course, which strangely it almost always is :bang:) Patients know they have a pain in the foot, what more do they need to know before they come to the podiatrist.


    A recommendation by a health professional may be beneficial to the patient in terms of quality of podiatrist referred to but on the other hand it might be just because your the closest or the one who advertises in the GP surgery patient info book or came up first when the GP Googled for a private podiatrist in the area . Which ever it is, it this makes no difference to the podiatrist how the patient eventually found their way top the clinic door. You don't get a better quality of patient if they are referred by a health professional do you? You do hope to get a better quality of health professional if you are recommended by another health professional, which is how your above argument works isn't it?

    LoL Dave
     
  13. Tend to agree with Dave - GPs on the whole are a waste of time. Aside from the countless misdiagnoses (heel pain always = plantar fasciitis and usually always = subcalc bursitis) many will not refer to the private practitioner, instead they refer to the NHS where the patient usually waits several months for an assesment before being told they are not eligible for Rx. I recently confronted a new GP in a nearby practice who stated he was not allowed to refer to private practitioners because it was counter to NHS policy - but then admitted to referring patients privately to orthopaedics, dermatology. One rule for medics - another for the low-life.

    As far as marketing/promoting your practice is concerned - do something different. Generally, yellow pages, podiatry websites or practice websites are a waste of time and certainly do not justify the costs. Local newspapers with good circulation figures can work - but no bland adverts. The public can be very discerning. Instead, try writing a monthly column - with some lighthearted, amusing stories. Get a regular readership so when something happens to someone's feet, they immediately think of you. Try some funny verses - this is the final verse of one I'm running next week....
    Be innovative. I have a number of elderly patients who live on their own. Throughout winter I make a large pot of soup at the start of each week and several portions end up in the practice on Monday mornings and a lucky few take some home with them. You will be amazed how quickly word gets around and how many new patients come through the door! Above all else, treat every patient like they are the most important person in the world during their consultation - and communicate well. Shake their hand when they come in the door and when they leave - the rest is down to your clinical ability!
     
  14. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Dave and Mark,

    Yep, agree that in comparison with patient recommendation, local advertising and Yelling, GP referrals are scant.

    .

    That perhaps we can diagnose the cause and treat pain in the feet? That we do more than cut nails? Many GPs are not aware of this, neither are their patients.

    When I worked in the NHS, it was noted that many `foot pain` cases were still being referred by GPs to orthopaedics or physio (who often referred them on to us) and the majority of GP referrals to podiatry was for nail care only. I do lament the apparent lack of understanding/interest that GPs have in our scope of practice. But hey ho, I have to admit to often bypassing GPs now, and make direct referrals to dermatologists, surgeons, etc. I have created pathways with those that I feel should be involved with a patient treatment plan. Reciprocally, these have sent a number of patients to me, which is nice!

    Of course I`d much rather patients come directly to me too. I`m really not fussy where the referral came from, agree it "makes no difference to the podiatrist how the patient eventually found their way to the clinic door”

    Kinda, that`s why networking with other disciplines, is useful, IMO. If they know what you do and how you do it, they do refer. Sometimes.

    Like the idea of a monthly column in the local rag, not sure everyone would understand my brand of humour though, so won`t be trying funny verses. Mmm, soup, where do you practice Mark? I love homemade soup on mornings like these. Agree 100% communication is the key, both in verbal and body language. Patients certainly are the most important people; they put the bread on my table. All in all business isn`t too shabby at the moment, my accountant informs me that my profit is still increasing on a monthly basis.

    Cheers,
    Bel
     
  15. Dave Kingston

    Dave Kingston Member

    SERPS fluctuate unless you have done some work building solid links for terms that are relevant to your niche/service/product. Your site has not. It has position based on 3 factors.

    1. Domain age
    2. Keyword domain
    3. Title tag

    It will always fluctuate. This is the core of my point about paid search. If you don't buy search then where is your traffic going to come from...not for you...but your podiatry client base?


    So why are none of these members 'pages' indexed in Google? So the webpage (and its marketing) is not part of your service. You are just providing lead generation? I'm confused.

    So, you provide a deep page and no offer of promoting that deep link for local search. The podiatrist with their own site then pays less but still gets no promotion just a lead generation in the hopes that the lead is looking for a podiatrist in their area. In this case what do you do if there are 2 of your clients in the one area?

    My costs are domain cost (yearly), hosting (monthly) and link building and promotion I do myself. My web design I did myself. Now, I know design can be expensive but it is not a recurring yearly expense and it can be geo-targeted and keyword targeted. It would not be a deep link single page with numerous outbound links to other pages and adverts that are draining link juice.

    There are 1,000's of portals. Exactly my point. Your site/link is drowned out by all those other sites. The links usually have N/A or PR Zero juice. They are never keyword or geo targeted. The portals never promote the deep linked individual pages.

    As for drawing targeted traffic. According to Google "Find a podiatrist is searched 480 times a month....in the whole USA. Well, that means that MY site would not see much of a share of that...at a large cost.

    VERY TARGETED. Search marketing is a science. People want local services. I can't explain this any clearer. I have many visitors to my site from many countries but all my marketing is geo-targeted because I want local visitors. Your marketing (PPC) is based on generic keywords. These are not good for a podiatrist in small town USA who is looking to attract clients from a 30 mile radius and see a return on investment on their marketing budget.

    Same to you. Please realize that this forum sometimes gets personal, and I hope you see that this is not the case here. I feel you have misrepresented the readers here in a promotional manner. I felt it my duty to educate some of the less web savvy members here.

    BTW I have been a member here for a long time and am known to many here personally. I just forgot my original login details and have had to start a new account. That’s why I use my real name now.
     
  16. Dave Kingston

    Dave Kingston Member

    David.

    Wow....it would take ages and ages to explain internet marketing in a post. I am too busy at the moment to start..haha. What I could do is if you PM me your web address with the following details I'll have a look and make some recommendations...

    1. What is the purpose of your site?
    2. Who are your ideal readers?
    3. Where do they live?
    4. What results would you be happy with from your website in terms of point 1.

    Be as detailed as you can be.

    I'll try and help you (help yourself) get your site up a bit more in Google ;)

    Dave
     
  17. Dave Kingston

    Dave Kingston Member

    Regarding GP education,

    Most GP's get together once a month for a meeting with other GP's and get drug rep's to pay for the room and food. They then invite someone interesting in to give a presentation to them. The rep gets 5 minutes at the end to pitch their latest wonder drug.

    Ask your own GP about this kind of thing in your area. Offer to do a talk on a 'sexy' subject like "Diabetes and the foot' and bring along your promotional stuff.

    This is great for educating your local GP's

    Here's a hint....wangle in a way to get one of them to take off their socks and shoes to demonstarte something. While they're there do an impromptu gait analysis and use as many 'pod' terms as you can.

    I guarantee you that you will get refferals and be asked back again.
     
  18. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    l like Daves idea, get them involved not snoring up the back !

    We have found actually going to the GP with brochures works well if tied in with an event (VERY important to have some relevance) for example "Diabetes week", foot health week. chiros have been a waste of time for me they tend to believe they will and can fix it all with their heat "Mouldable" othotics.

    The other thing that works well is a personal invitation to come and view the premises and see what we offer/do, most people are impressed once they walk past the basic front and see the behind the scene, let them touch and see what it is you really do.

    With that in mind l am planning an open night for early 2009, make a case presentation or two, it becomes an education process, which takes time.

    Of course some :drinks will need to be provided
     
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