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HPC Complaints (alternative courses of action)

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by M Staines, Dec 6, 2007.

  1. M Staines

    M Staines Member


    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    Last year I was walking through a small shopping area in Spalding Lincolnshire, when I happened to notice a lady sitting in a treatment chair, in a shop window.
    I had to take a closer look and yes this was a "Chiropody Clinic" under a Beauticians.
    I couldn't believe it. Good advertising but lacking some dignity and professionalism.

    Two patients sat a few feet behind the lady separated by a bamboo screen. No doubt lots of interesting and confidential things to listen to.

    The board outside stated "Qualified Chiropodist". etc.

    At home I looked in the Yellow Pages, found the name of the "Qualified Chiropodist" and shock and horror...Not on the HPC Register.

    A quick E-mail to the HPC was followed by a slow reply, confirming that this lady was not entitled to use the term Qualified Chiropodist.
    They phoned her...

    A year later and several E-mails later. (no replies to the last few)Last time we looked, she still has a sign above the shop and in the main street saying "Qualified Chiropodist". I bet there's thousands of you who have had the same experience?

    HPC toothless hound. It seems to only bite it's owners?
     
  2. Admin2

    Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

  3. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi All

    I think that is a very good point .

    In reality the worst the HPC can do to a registered member is strike them off ( so they continue to practice under another title):rolleyes:

    If on the other hand the person is not registered anyway ,what are they going to do about it ??

    Take them to court ?? To do what exactly?

    Give them a fine of ?? to take down their sign ( but still continue to practice):bash:.

    The cost of bringing a court case runs into thousands of pounds ( of our money don't forget) so how would we all feel if our fees were raised yearly to cover the cost of bringing these people to book to be fined a maximum £100 I would think and watch them laughing all the way to the bank with the free publicity ??:eek:

    I think the HPC CAN only "bite it's owners" who are paying for the privilege of it doing so.:(

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  4. hrm94

    hrm94 Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    I have just emailed the HPC regarding a FHP who has placed a new advert in our local paper under the heading Chiropodists.

    I have had my email acknowledged and have submitted further details but as already stated n this thread, nothing will be done.

    Howver in addition to that , I have contacted the newspaper and told them that this person is breaking the law and explained why she is breaking the law. Thy are going to look into it with a view to withdrawing the advert. Maybe the HPC should issue warnings to newspapers or whoever is running the adverts- that misuse of title is illegal and that trading standards should be informed. That may hit home rather than trying to prosecute the individuals.

    Regards
     
  5. Re: HPC Complaints

    A couple of years ago I sent a list of those people in my location who were advertising themselves as chiropodists/ podiatrists who were not on the HPC register. I'm still awaiting a reply of any kind. Not holding my breath.:pigs:

    The HPC are better than the CPSM because...

    Answers on a postage stamp
     
  6. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi All

    Yellow pages asked all the relevant bits about my registration for inclusion in the Chiro /Pod listings the first year.

    I haven't been asked since ?

    They along with the rest of the media know the score they just "forget" when taking money for advertising:pigs:

    Perhaps they trust me to tell them if I am struck off or the same person that put in the original ad ( different rep every year)?

    But why should YOU have to do that ?

    Isn't that exactly the job of the HPC ?

    But of course they are too busy with fitness to practice hearings ( the new funded by us NHS Disciplinary procedure) to bother :mad:

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  7. Re: HPC Complaints

    Very, very shrewd.
     
  8. M Staines

    M Staines Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Dear All who replied.

    I think I'm goint to advertise as a Doctor. Foot Specialist with Legal training, Consultant in all things foot related. Not sure they are legally protected titles.
    Better not call myself a Chiropodist or Podiatrist. It has the FULL FORCE OF THE LAW
    protecting these titles!

    Oh I love Cynisism (but I cannot spell it).

    Off to look at the Diabetic Foot Wounds forum. Shame there's no Scratch and Sniff on the internet.

    Cheers Tripod
     
  9. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    Re: HPC Complaints

    Is the HPC the problem or is it the legislative framework that it was given the problem?

    I do not know the UK law, but there was a case under previous legislation in Australia, where the Registration Board could not legally act aganist those who were not registered. They could only act against those that were registered. The Board took a lot of heat for this, but there was nothing they could actually do about those who were not registered. ...even though it was illegal for them to practice and not be registered.
     
  10. Re: HPC Complaints

    My understanding is that they can bring legal action and a fine against those using the protected titles without registration- could be wrong.
     
  11. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi Simon

    Pleeeeeze tell me you of all people hadn't just fell in to that one:eek:

    We have taken it over ( gotta save the NHS money somewhere) this disciplinary thingy:confused:

    Dont you feel proud to be a Partner ?:butcher:

    Tripod

    Call yourself a pox doctors clerk if it helps

    BUT..

    In reality all this "protection of title" is absolute Taurean Excrement that cannot be enforced by the HPC outside those that are regulated. And if struck off ....

    Can still practice with impunity:bash:

    Sorry

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  12. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi Craig


    It is the framework.

    Many asked for a General Podiatry Council to govern the profession and effectively close it.

    We are left with this mess of ineffective bureaucracy

    .


    That is my point in reality, there is nothing the HPC can do effectively to stop these people practicing :(

    But look on the bright side ,we still pay them loadsamunny to do it :confused:

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2007
  13. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi Simon

    Look at my previous post and work it out for yourself ??

    Do You really think the HPC has the funding ( from us) to take up this I believe ( increasing) trend to thumb their nose at regulation ??

    It is farcical to even imagine anyone that is trying to "do feet and earn money" is going to take any notice ?

    GET REAL :rolleyes:

    We should have united and got a general podiatry council and closed the profession when we had the chance:bang:

    Too late now:eek:

    Be Lucky

    Derek;)
     
  14. Re: HPC Complaints

    NO. I smelt that a long time ago. I was just complimenting you.:drinks
     
  15. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi Simon

    Praise indeed :D

    Thank you;)

    The whole thing is inefficient, costly and above all ineffective.:hammer:

    A glorified talking shop :mad:

    Be Lucky

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  16. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    Re: HPC Complaints

    Surely you are talking about different things. A unified profession is one thing; but the idea for a general podiatry council (GPC) (modeled after the General Medical council - GMC) is another. The GMC is a regulatory body and not a representative body. A GPC would have nothing to do with a united profession and more to do with what the govt of the day things is the best way to protect the public (which is the function of a regulatory body). The govt version of the best way to protect the public will always be at odds with a self interested profession (which is exactly what you would expect).

    I assume that the HPC has limited resources (like any publically funded body) and is expending them where they think the public interest is best served (and this is NOT necessarily the professions interest). They obviously consider the public is at greater risk from a lesbian posing in bondage gear or locking out the husband than someone calling themselves a 'chiropodist' and are not registered (after all they just need to change their name to FHP and they are doing nothing wrong!).

    We obviously disagree with the HPC on this, but the HPC has to balance competing interests. Any compaints about a competitor not being registered by the HPC will be treated as such (ie a complaint from a competitor). Now if that complaint came from a member of the public who has been harmed, then that is a different matter as far as the HPC is concerned.
     
  17. zaffie

    zaffie Active Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    HPC has been a great disappointment :( After thirty years in practice HPC has not been worth the wait.
    Is there any evidence of pods leaving or not renewing HPC registration? I know of one colleague not renewing. What a thought if they had no one to regulate:D
     
  18. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi Craig

    My point was if you want a GPC then the best way to get it would have been to speak with one voice , and would have had the ear / and clout with the government of the day to be effective in OUR protection and the protection of the public ( see GMC)


    Yes funded by the fees from the 13 professions it regulates us included

    Yes well in this world of politically correct bovine excrement those cases you specify are really ball breaking in the Hpc's fight to "protect the public" ???:pigs:

    Yep got it in one!!

    That's why ALL these regulations /regulatory bodies are a complete waste of time.

    THE ACT HAS TO BE COMMITTED BEFORE THEY TAKE ACTION.

    Therefore to "protect the public" is by default a nonsense.
    Perhaps to "Avenge the wrongdoer of the public "would be a better term ?:butcher:

    Hang em and hang em high !:eek:

    Craig I just don't know where we go from here , I just feel the horse has bolted and we are now trying yet again to bolt the stable door.
    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  19. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    All,

    I think I am right when I say that there is a potential enforcement agency that would not cost the HPC any money.

    It should be the Trading Standards Agency who enforce the legislation.

    In the first example if the person complained about has not responded to the cease and desist notice TS could become involved.

    IMO it needs, some one or some organisation to 'test' the Law. If the case fails then the legislation for the HPC is faulty? It would then be acceptable to request a change to the Orders.

    The issue of a GPC is a red herring. It was never considered as a Government regulatory body but a loose association of the existing representative bodies.

    The issue is Functional closure, no representative body endorses this, not even the SCP.

    So we stay as we are, divided and complaining while every day a 'new' unregulated 'foot person' emerges.

    Bob
     
  20. M Staines

    M Staines Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    I think R.E.C. has a very good point. It's functional closure that is the real issue.

    Do you think we could pressure SOCAP to take on a legal challenge through Trading Standards???

    Do SOCAP read this arena
    :bang:
    Just remeber what 300 Trojans achieved!

    300 Podiatrists wielding scalpels lacks a little Kudos

    Craig Payne.... Just had a couple of weeks in Perth.. Love Oz.


    Tripod
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2007
  21. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Tripod,

    Thanks for the support.

    Just wondering why we/you automatically think the legal challenge is the preserve of the SCP (SOCAP went with the Camden Accord 1996).

    Why not the Institute or BChPA, or even the Alliance?

    Bob.
     
  22. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    Re: HPC Complaints

    In my view it would have to be the SCP. Only (some) members of the SCP see FHPs (and those who are not on the register but profess to be) as a threat.

    In general, the Institute, BChPA and Alliance are much more relaxed about the situation.

    We all agree it shouldn't happen, but even if a solution were found ( for those who are not on the register but profess to be) do you really believe it would make one iota of difference, whether to your day-to-day practice, or to the state of UK Podiatry (PP and NHS)?
     
  23. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    David,

    Thanks for replying, it's helping me to tot up my CPD points. :drinks Where can I learn how to do the 'quote' stuff I cannot get it to work? :confused:

    In my view it would have to be the SCP. Only (some) members of the SCP see FHPs (and those who are not on the register but profess to be) as a threat.
    I would have thought that for those who bothered to register with the HPC, misuse of the protected title would be a concern, threat or not.

    When Pods signed up for the HPC, and lets be honest here, we are talking about the Grandparented, the SRChs were automatically transferred, 'they' achieved a long hoped for aim of 'recognition'.

    Are you sure that those Pods are not upset by the advent of FHPs?

    The more 'relaxed' attitude of the BChPA could be that it is intimately involved with the British Association of Foot Health Practitioners (MAFHP).

    I will make no comment about the Alliance, their web site is too obscure.

    The Institute IMO are in a cleft stick, no natural recruitment area, and a legacy of members who did not register. Again nothing to do with me.

    This reply is far too repetitive we have been over this ground many many times.

    I think we should stick to the point of the thread, 'enforcement of protection of title'.

    Do you have any ideas on that?
     
  24. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi Bob

    I don't believe the HPC CAN enforce it, but trading standards ?

    That's one I hadn't thought of but why are the HPC not passing these complaints on to that body if they can :confused:

    Can we not expect SOME sort of backing from this quango ?

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  25. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Del,

    long time?

    I believe it was always the intention that Trading Standards were the enforcement agency, but the memory is not what it used to be.

    The HPC rely on registrants to act as 'informants', we do not 'pay' enough for them to be proactive.

    Do not shoot me I'm just the messenger!

    So if 'We' want to take it forward it's up to us.

    As an non SCP member (shame on you after I worked so hard for it to happen under your conditions) do you agree with David and are pretty casual about the protection of Title or me who listened to infuriated HPC Pods, usually unidentified?

    Bob

    Quick reply does not give me smilies, sorry I'm not coming to grips with this forum, must try harder and earn more points.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2007
  26. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi Bob

    Still only a SKYPE away if you ever feel the need:)


    I think we both worked hard for it to happen ? and we did it. The fact I personally didn't go forward with it ( I still have the forms here) was a different matter.

    I'm not "casual" about it at all , I just don't see what we can do about it effectively and I think it's very hard on individuals to be expected to get caught up in this bureaucratic mess when we are supposed to have the all powerful HPC as regulatory body that in my view should be doing it for us ?

    Cheers fella
    Derek;)
     
  27. hrm94

    hrm94 Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi All
    I can see no reason why individuals cannot contact the trading standards agency, and I have in fact done this regarding the recent misleading advert in my local paper.There is no point in waiting for the HPC, even if they claim they will prosecute, a case has yet to come to fruition I believe.

    From David's post, regarding the difference in attitude of the various professional bodies, it is obvious that the profession will only be consolidated when most of us are 6 feet under - by that time the grandparented will have all retired and all registered pods will have done a degree. Of course that is in theory only- by then the FHPs may become registered/regulated to practise anything except chiropody, and the HPC get loads more money than they do now. and so it goes on ....and on......


    regards
    heather
     
  28. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi Heather

    And what has happened to date ??

    Have they acted ?

    If so what action have they taken against the individual concerned ?

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  29. hrm94

    hrm94 Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi Derek

    No outcome as yet as it has only just happened. I did end up ringing them as their online email complaints form would not deliver-an ominous sign? .Anyway, phone call was efficient, all details logged in and to be passed to the appropriate branch. I wont hold my breath for a quick fix but at least I have done something positive.

    this is the web site for any one interested.

    www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact#calltoday


    regards
    heather
     
  30. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi Heather

    Thank you for that :)

    Perhaps you could post the outcome here ?

    It would perhaps give hope that we are not....:bash:

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  31. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Re: HPC Complaints

    Hi All

    The thread below is taken from the HPC December 07 Newsletter.:dizzy:

    Is this some action at last !!:butcher:s



    A man claiming to be a ‘registered physio’ was arrested last month and cautioned by Essex Police. He was not registered with the HPC as a physiotherapist and was using business cards that stated ‘registered physio’. He was working in the Essex area when arrested, and accepted a police caution for fraud. The HPC provided a statement to the police to confirm that he wasn’t registered.
    Kelly Johnson, Director of Fitness to Practise, commented, “We are delighted with the outcome of this case and to have worked so closely and effectively with Essex

    Police to ensure the public are adequately protected.”
    Health professionals who wish to practise in the UK using a protected title such as ‘physiotherapist’ or ‘dietitian’ must, by law, be registered with us and meet our standards for their professional skills, training, behaviour and health.


    wadda you think:pigs:

    Cheers

    Derek;)
     
  32. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Del,

    Good to see the law is enforceable.

    What is not clear is the way the police got involved.

    It does not 'read' as if it was a result of an HPC complaint.

    More information/detail would be helpful followed by many more enforcements.

    I would like to say that in SMAEs case, and the BChPA, to their credit they have warned their FHP colleagues not to misrepresent themselves.

    Bob.

    (loads more points)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2007
  33. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Bob

    Yes I agree the report lacks detail and it may be the HPC were simply asked to confirm this persons registration as part of the police investigation, but at least they did something constructive

    I'm sure they do ( you may know more about that than I ;) ) and I'm sure the vast majority practice within the guidelines they were given.

    BUT..

    Like most things the few spoil it for the rest :rolleyes:

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  34. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Derek, (see I'm serious now so no more Del):p

    So who will take up the challenge?

    Who will ask the HPC for information on the case?

    Who will challenge them to 'enforce' more complaints?

    As far as me having more information about SMAE and the BChPA, I knew you were banned from posting, probably justified at the time:D, but as you are still a member do you not have access to 'read only'?

    Looking back at how hard we 'worked' to engender a spirit of 'Unity', which resulted in the SCP 'opening it's doors', the outcome has been very disappointing.:bang:

    Take up of the offer has been abysmal, and I probably should not say this, IMO not all who have engaged have engaged for the enhanced education. :(

    With hindsight I believe that the SCP were wrong to open their doors, too many interested parties have seen it as only a cynical attempt to increase income.

    Should a resolution at the 2008 AGM propose to reverse the 'open door' I would support it.

    I see no sign of a move towards Unity, in fact there is evidence of further fractions emerging, unfortunately with yet again 'financial' interests.

    I think I'm possibly still like you and none of these moves will affect me. So why bother?:bash:

    Given the obvious powers of the HPC it would be really nice to some of the 'Vocal bodies' other than the SCP take up the Protection issue.:pigs: Will it happen, no chance. David has explained why.
    Nice to talk again, but I sense this will go nowhere.
    Bob.

    (what do I do with my CPD points, I still have a lot of green shield stamps, can they be exchanged?), Does working out how to use smilies increase ones points?

    Ah used 9 and can only have 6 'b*******, i do not know what they are!
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2007
  35. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi ROBERT ( I can be serious too):D


    The answer to both of those questions is the complainants and one assumes the professional bodies ?


    Probably but I have no desire to find out :bang:

    The offer was there we could do no more than to work toward that outcome:(


    I think that is one reason that the take up was not what was expected.

    Lack of trust, inasmuch that the rules would be changed once entry was give to create yet another sub class ?

    Thankfully they wont,:rolleyes: but I still would like to see a united profession moving forward but we still dwell on the negatives and as you say this will go nowhere.

    But in time Heathers comment

    .

    Will be the eventual solution ,if there is still a profession left as we know it.

    Cheers Fella
    Derek;)
     
  36. rhetoric66

    rhetoric66 Member

    Hi all,
    Some really provocative comments. The true nature of the HPC register appears to be the naming and shaming of health professionals in the public domain....even when the public is in all probability not even looking.
    I was always under the impression that the register was developed in order to protect the general public, although this has clearly not been comunicated properly to it's intended audience. Instead the average viewer of the complaints section is the bored scandal-mongers among us, looking for some juicey dirt on any of his/her colleagues/acquaintances during a DNA slot.
    Many of these "henious" crimes seem to amount to nothing more that accessing inappropriate websites at the end of a clinic or a drink driving disqualification. It is not my intention to trivialise such offences, but do they really throw in to question a professionals ability to practise safely?
    If these inconsequential cases must be placed on the register, why not limit entries to guilty verdicts instead of dragging peoples reputations through the mud unecessarily?....sling enough crap at anything and some of it'll stick, come on HPC sort it out I dont remember signing for a pair of angel wings when I picked up my first tunic.
    I'm definitely thinking of changing my name by deed poll as the lure of ebay is becoming more powerful by the day; it frequently calls to me during clinical hours demanding that I access its materialistic pleasures...damn it!
     
  37. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi

    I think that is a very very valid point

    All we seem to do is hear of FTP hearings for matters that are quite frankly nothing to do with safe practice in fact at times more like marriage guidance :rolleyes:

    We are IMHO unfortunately becoming governed by the PC brigade who thrive on crossed T's & Dotted i's.

    (That 6% of the population that make our lives a misery through perpetual whining about trivia.):mad:


    Perhaps we should back off from the "eastenders" mindset as well in certain circumstances:rolleyes:


    :D :

    Careful that's really subversive stuff:eek:

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  38. R.E.G

    R.E.G Active Member

    Del

    I think that is one reason that the take up was not what was expected.

    Lack of trust, inasmuch that the rules would be changed once entry was give to create yet another sub class ?



    Guess there is no answer to that one, if paranoia is a natural state.

    It would also explain why the 'Profession' will never unite, and my Xmas wish for world peace will never be granted.

    Cheers

    Bob
     
  39. Marion A Murray

    Marion A Murray Active Member

    Does anyone think that the HPC may be being used by Health Authorities/Boards to sort out their own internal issues rather than train NHS managers particulary those with a more clinical background?
     
  40. Hello Marion - hope you are keeping well. Depends what you mean by "internal issues". If you mean using the FTP hearings instead of normal PCT HR disciplinary procedures, then I think there has been ample evidence to suggest misuse by Trusts. Why embark on potentially expensive disciplinary procedures when you can get another body to do the dirty for you at no cost and no litigious exposure?

    All the best
     
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