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Dry Needling course for lower limb

Discussion in 'General Issues and Discussion Forum' started by Ahc, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Ahc

    Ahc Member

    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.

    I wonder anybody has been to dry needling course recently and would recommend a good training course for podiatrist?

    Thanks million
  2. blinda

    blinda MVP

  3. Ahc

    Ahc Member

    Yes, Blinda. I've checked out a few 2-day courses in Sydney but they are for Physio. So I wonder if there are any good one just for lower limb.
  4. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Thanks for the clarification. This underscores the reason why we should not call `needling` verrucae, `dry needling`, as some practitioners do. Not you, I hasten to add.
  5. Shane Toohey

    Shane Toohey Active Member

    Hi Ahc,
    You wrote:

    So I may as well take the opportunity to plug myself.

    I am a podiatrist who has been also qualified as an acupuncturist for over 20 years and providing workshopps for podiatrists when I can interrupt my practice over the past 7 years in Australia, UK and Ireland.

    "Dry Needling' has never been universally defined and usually is meant to refer to using acupuncture needles to release myfascial trigger points and/or to signify that acupuncture needles are being used but not to treat in the traditional chinese system. I will mention that needling trigger points nevertheless was definitely recorded in the chinese texts. Personally, I prefer to call what we may do with needling as "wetsern medical acupuncture" as there are more acupuncture techniques that are also useful for a range of condtions that podiatrists are often encountering.
    PersonallyI like to emphasise the medical competency that podiatrists have that sets them apart from most of the other allied health professions due to our training in skin penetration, injection techniques, wound healing and surgery.
    Recently I have come across training from other professions in 'dry needling' that has included needling through clothing (to save time) and multiple use of each needle on the same person. Podiatrists are generally shocked to hear of these practices but have been attending these courses and possible being convinced that it is OK.
    Anyway, I'm always happy to discuss this modality more.
    I do have workshops coming up in Galway and Huddersfield in October, Perth, Western Australia in September and Sydney in December. The northern hemisphere workshops are approved by the SCP for Acupuncture Certification for insurance purposes. Unfortunately certification is not required in Australia and possibly this explains how unsatisfactory practices are also being taught.
    If you are interested in finding out more, please let me know and I will pass on more information.

  6. Ahc

    Ahc Member

    Hi Shane,

    Thank you for your information.

    I did actually check on your website while I searched online. However there's no info regarding the date you would be in Sydney. I have come across a lot of patients with chronic AT/shin splints pain and like to learn more of alternative treatment.

    I will love to find out more if you can send me some info.

    Thanks again.
  7. Shane Toohey

    Shane Toohey Active Member

    The Sydney dates are just being confirmed with the Association.
    If you could advise me of your email contact details we can put you onto our notification list.

    You can contact me by email: 2shane@westnet.com.au

  8. mr2pod

    mr2pod Active Member

    I'll give Shane another plug.
    I did his course 3 years ago and found his knowledge and skill in this area to be outstanding. His teaching method was excellent and very practical, and I was able t utilise the skills he taught me over the 2-day course the very next day I was in clinic.
  9. Shane Toohey

    Shane Toohey Active Member

    Thanks very much.

    I am grateful for being in this profession and wish to enhance it every way that I can.

    I am concerned that we are sometimes not given the respect we deserve by some other professions and tto often meekly accept being put down.

  10. stevewells

    stevewells Active Member

    I HATE it when I see a podiatrist use the term "Shin Splints" ! It is totally meaningless.
  11. PodAus

    PodAus Active Member

    Undiagnosed shin pain is often best referred to as "shin splints" as the appropriate umbrella term... we know 'exactly' what the term refers to and is particularly meaningful in the context used.
  12. stevewells

    stevewells Active Member

    No its not! - its best referred to as undiagnosed shin pain or undiagnosed anterior leg pain.
  13. PodAus

    PodAus Active Member

    goodluck changing that (shin splints) definition in the world's dictionaries...
  14. blinda

    blinda MVP

    I`m with Steve on this. Or, maybe we should go back to diagnosing met head capsulitis/plantar plate tear/freibergs` infarction/etc as metatarsalgia? No, wait. Let`s diagnose all forefoot pain as `stone bruise`. Who needs an accurate diagnosis anyway?


    Just `cos it`s in a dictionary, doesn`t mean we should be using ill-defined terminology...IMHO
  15. "Shin splints" is no longer an acceptable term for medical professionals to use to describe the leg pain that occurs with exercise or sports activities. Rather the currently recommended term is now "exertional leg pain".

    Here is the basic list of differential diagnoses for exertional leg pain:

    Tibial or fibular stress fractures
    Chronic exertional compartment syndrome
    Arterial or nerve entrapment
    Deep vein thrombosis
    Fascial herniations
    Muscle strains or tears
    Medial tibial stress syndrome
  16. PodAus

    PodAus Active Member

    Then in that context, neither is Plantar Fasciitis an acceptable term to describe heel pain....

    Maybe im just a realist where political correctness doesnt really help :hammer: :boohoo:

    on to more constructive things...
  17. stevewells

    stevewells Active Member

    Ok - now your argument isn't making any sense - heel pain is a symptom - plantar fasciitis is a recognised diagnosis/condition -- it is inflammation of the plantar fascia!
    Shin splints means nothing.
  18. PodAus

    PodAus Active Member

    umbrella terminology
  19. blinda

    blinda MVP

    `Umbrella` terminology refer to many syndromes under one umbrella (condition), such as AIDS, fibromyalgia, `Gulf War Syndrome`, etc. `Shin splints` does not fall into that blanket terminology. It is a sloppy and non-descriptive term and does not aid diagnoses.
  20. AdamB

    AdamB Active Member

    inflammation of the plantar fascia?
  21. stevewells

    stevewells Active Member

    Yep - what else would it be?
  22. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    Coming back a bit I am happy to commend Shane's course. Done a couple of acupuncture courses over the time and found Shane's course to be pragmatic and applicable clinically very quickly. Very useful adjunct to other things I do.
  23. AdamB

    AdamB Active Member

    We are getting off topic here, so I'll let someone else bite.
  24. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    I assume he is meaning the more correct terminology would be "Plantar Fasciosis"
  25. AdamB

    AdamB Active Member

    No I think he actually believes that there is "inflammation of the fascia" in plantar fasciitis, when histology generally shows that there are no actual inflammatory cells found from tissue samples taken from the fascia of patients with the condition. therefore it is considered not an inflammatory condition but rather a degenerative condition. Thickening of the fascia is not to be confused with inflammation and I believe the only time there could be an inflammatory component to the condition is in the very initial acute (early) stage, but even that is not clear.
  26. stevewells

    stevewells Active Member

    That wasn't what I was saying at all - the point I was trying to make (which has now gotten totally out of hand and blown out of all proportion) was that blanket terms should not be used -plantar fasciitis is plantar fasciitis - it is a specific diagnosis (and I agree with Adam I the context it would apply - the same thing happens with Achilles conditions). My point was that shin splints is not a diagnosis or even any kind of condition and shouldn't be used. can we stick a fork in it now please!
  27. Paul Bowles

    Paul Bowles Well-Known Member

    Want to go for the top prize and care to explain to us why NSAIDs reduce pain even in chronic sufferers of plantar fasciosis?
  28. AdamB

    AdamB Active Member

    Im not going for any prize, just don't know of any evidence that there is actual inflammation of the fascia itself in PF. If there is evidence, please show me.

    I agree that NSAIDs and even cortisone injections can provide some relief of symptoms of PF in some cases, however in my experience the more chronic the condition the less likely they are to have a significant Effect. The mechanism by which they work is to my knowledge not well understood, and could be much more complicated involving pain and neural pathways that are beyond my understanding. It is just widely considered now days that the condition is degenerative not inflammatory. that is all i was commenting on.

    We can move on now.
  29. Mimi McNaull

    Mimi McNaull Member

    So, if we go back to the subject, are there any training courses in the UK?
  30. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    Yep. Shane (see post no 5) has course running October/November this year. They are based in Huddersfield and Galway. Happy to commend them.
  31. Glen

    Glen Member

    Hi Ahc

    This may be a late reply for you. I did Shane`s course last month and found it educational and practical. I have started getting into this therapy with some good results. I am looking forward to doing the advanced course to bed down what I have already learnt. I see Shane has contacted you. I would recommend his course.
  32. Stavroula

    Stavroula Welcome New Poster


    I was wondering if you know any accupuncture course available in London or generally in Uk for podiatrists as soon as possible?

  33. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    In the London area the courses run by Anthony Campbell are approved by the Society for extended scope of practice for their members. I believe he runs course through out the year. Shane Toohey from Aus also runs approved courses in the UK and Eire but these tend to run at the back end (October time) of the year.
  34. Shane Toohey

    Shane Toohey Active Member

    Thanks Ian,

    I expect to come over to UK twice in 2015 and working on dates now.
    At presnt there could be workshops in Ireland, Huddersfield and Aberdeen.
    I'll advise asap. It's a bit of a process as I need to register each workshop with the SCP at least 3 months before presentation date and it takes a further 3 months advance notification before it is listed in SCP events. That means it is not worth me setting dates less than 6 months before the workshop to have a chance of having sufficient participants. The proces is happening and may have dates before Xmas.
    As I have the floor here I'd like to say that my workshops have a podiatric perspective and have 20 years of treating podiatric conditions behind them.
    The modality is very accesible for podiatrists and can extend the scope of practice immensely. as it is not just about MSK but also feeds into the medical conditions that podiatrists routinely deal with.

  35. adamoto

    adamoto Welcome New Poster

    Hi Shane,
    Just wondering if you will be doing the course in Melbourne at all?
  36. Shane Toohey

    Shane Toohey Active Member

    Hi Adam (?),

    Thanks for your interest.

    I'm not sure about a suitable venue in Melbourne and being fairly time poor at the moment I just haven't followed up on a promising lead that I now can't remember.
    It can really take a lot of time setting up a venue the first time.

    If you have suggestion please let me know.

    I'd love to come to Melbourne for a workshop.


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