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Foot pronation and knee pain

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by NewsBot, Jun 27, 2006.

  1. CraigT

    CraigT Well-Known Member

    No offense taken... just thought it was strange
     
  2. musmed

    musmed Active Member

    Dear Craig

    The subtalar joint is always in neutral. That is why everyone gets it right.

    The subtalar joint can never be in any other plane outside of a fractured one.

    Before you get heated, list the most common joints to get OA in them.

    OK...

    Is the subtalar joint in your top 10>>>

    of course not. pourqui?

    Just have a little think before emailing a reply.

    Noprobs

    PaulC in Beaitful Sydney
     
  3. CraigT

    CraigT Well-Known Member

    Paul,
    You have got me... I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say...
    :confused::confused:
    CT
     
  4. musmed

    musmed Active Member

    Craig

    What I am saying is that since thew subtalar joint is in neutral, most poddies get the orthotics correct in the STJ axis as they do nothing to it.

    Since it is in neutral it never wears out.

    Hope this clarifies things

    Paul C
     
  5. CraigT

    CraigT Well-Known Member

    The subtalar inclinination angle that we are talking about here is completely different to STJ neutral position...
    Re read what has been posted- it refers to the relationship between movement of the foot in relation to the leg due to the position of the STJ axis.
    I hope this clarifies things!
     
  6. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Gait related intrinsic risk factors for patellofemoral pain in novice recreational runners.
    Thijs Y, De Clercq D, Roosen P, Witvrouw E.
    Br J Sports Med. 2008 Apr 8 [Epub ahead of print]
     
  7. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Proximal and distal influences on hip and knee kinematics in runners with patellofemoral pain during a prolonged run.
    Dierks TA, Manal KT, Hamill J, Davis IS.
    J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2008 Aug;38(8):448-56.
     
  8. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Relationships between lower extremity alignment and the quadriceps angle.
    Nguyen AD, Boling MC, Levine B, Shultz SJ.
    Clin J Sport Med. 2009 May;19(3):201-6.
    .
     
  9. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    A Prospective Investigation of Biomechanical Risk Factors for Patellofemoral Pain Syndrome: The Joint Undertaking to Monitor and Prevent ACL Injury (Jump-ACL) Cohort
    Michelle C. Boling, Darin A. Padua, Stephen W. Marshall, Kevin Guskiewicz, Scott Pyne, Anthony Beutler
    American Journal of Sports Medicine (in press)
     
  10. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Press Release:
    UNC study pinpoints causes of ‘runner’s knee’
     
  11. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Foot and ankle characteristics in patellofemoral pain syndrome: a case control and reliability study.
    Barton CJ, Bonanno D, Levinger P, Menz HB.
    J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2010 May;40(5):286-96.
     
  12. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Relationships between the Foot Posture Index and foot kinematics during gait in individuals with and without patellofemoral pain syndrome.
    Barton CJ, Levinger P, Crossley KM, Webster KE, Menz HB
    J Foot Ankle Res. 2011 Mar 14;4(1):10
     
  13. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Variations in Foot Posture and Mobility Between Individuals with Patellofemoral Pain and Those in a Control Group
    Thomas G. McPoil et al
    JAPMA July/August 2011 vol. 101 no. 4 289-296

     
  14. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    The relationship between rearfoot, tibial and hip kinematics in individuals with patellofemoral pain syndrome.
    Barton CJ, Levinger P, Crossley KM, Webster KE, Menz HB.
    Clin Biomech (Bristol, Avon). 2012 Mar 19
     
  15. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Evaluating runners with and without anterior knee pain using the time to contact the ankle joint complexes’ range of motion boundary
    Pedro Rodrigues, Trampas TenBroek, Richard Van Emmerik, Joseph Hamill
    Gait & Posture; Article in Press
     
  16. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    No relationship between foot posture and frontal knee alignment in healthy adolescents
    Shinsuke Matsumoto and Shigeharu Tanaka
    Journal of Foot and Ankle Research 2014, 7(Suppl 1):A56 doi:10.1186/1757-1146-7-S1-A56
     
  17. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    An investigation into the relationship between foot posture and knee
    Brown, Emily
    Cardiff Metropolitan University; Hons thesis 2014
     
  18. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    COMPARISON OF ISOMETRIC ANKLE STRENGTH BETWEEN FEMALES WITH AND WITHOUT PATELLOFEMORAL PAIN SYNDROME
    Ana Paula de Moura Campos Carvalho e Silva, PT, MSc Student, Eduardo Magalhães, PT, Msc, Flavio Fernandes Bryk, PT, and Thiago Yukio Fukuda, PT, PhD
    Int J Sports Phys Ther. Oct 2014; 9(5): 628–634.
     
  19. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Reliability and differentiation capability of dynamic and static kinematic measurements of rearfoot eversion in patellofemoral pain
    Danilo de Oliveira Silva, Ronaldo Valdir Briani, Marcella Ferraz Pazzinatto, Deisi Ferrari, Fernando Amâncio Aragão, Carlos Eduardo de Albuquerque, Neri Alves, Fábio Mícolis de Azevedo
    Clinical Biomechanics; Article in Press
     
  20. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Correlation between Patellofemoral Pain and Foot Posture
    Marwaha Ravinder Kaur, Ranade Apurva V, Sahasrabudhe Amala V, Jaiswal Pranita, Rairikar Savita, Sancheti Parag
    Indian Journal of Physiotherapy and Occupational Therapy - An International Journal Year : 2015, Volume : 9, Issue : 1
     
  21. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    FOOT POSTURE AND ITS RELATIONSHIP WITH KNEE KINEMATICS IN BAREFOOT RUNNING OF THE HEALTHY ADULT
    Trina Wong, Bruce Paton
    Br J Sports Med 2017;51:411 doi:10.1136/bjsports-2016-097372.321
     
  22. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    An Evaluation of the Correlation between the Free Moments Applied
    on the Lower Extremity and the Knee Extensor Mechanism Force in
    Pronated Foot Subjects during the Stance Phase of Gait

    Farzaneh Yazdani et al
    JRSR 4 (2016) 85-90
     
  23. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
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  24. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN REARFOOT, TIBIA AND FEMUR KINEMATICS IN RUNNERS WITH AND WITHOUT PATELLOFEMORAL PAIN
    Bruna Calazans Luza, Ana Flávia dos Santosa, Mariana Carvalho de Souzaa, Tatiana de Oliveira Satoa, Deborah A. Nawoczenskib, Fábio Viadanna Serrãoa, ,
    Gait & Posture; 12 February 2018
     
  25. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Age-related differences in foot mobility in individuals with patellofemoral pain
    Jade M. Tan, Kay M. Crossley, Bill Vicenzino, Hylton B. Menz
    Journal of Foot and Ankle Research201811:5
     
  26. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    The Relationship Between the Range of Hip Rotation and the Quadriceps Angle in Subjects With and Without Flat Foot
    Physical Therapy Korea
     
  27. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Effect of patellofemoral pain on foot posture and walking kinematics
    LouiseKedroff et al
    Gait & Posture; 18 March 2019
     
  28. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Relationship of Anterior Knee Pain and Flat foot:
    A Cross-Sectional Study

    Mindia Patel et al
    International Journal of Health Sciences and Research Vol.11; Issue: 3; March 2021
     
  29. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Intrinsic foot muscle size and quality in a single leg weight bearing position across foot posture types in individuals with Patellofemoral Pain compared to healthy
    AndreaBaellow et al
    Physical Therapy in Sport; Volume 54, March 2022, Pages 58-64
     
  30. scotfoot

    scotfoot Well-Known Member

    If the abductor hallucis support the medial longitudinal arch then presumably the flexor hallucis longus does as well, and yet little is ever heard of this supportive role . The FHL is a fairly large muscle and is just as well placed to give "arch support" .
     
  31. Stanley

    Stanley Well-Known Member

    All the muscles of the foot can in the right circumstances support the arch synergistically. For instance let's take the least likely possibility, an extensor of a toe. It stabilizes the toe, so the flexors do not flex the toe, but can become an accessory arch supporting muscle.
     
  32. scotfoot

    scotfoot Well-Known Member

    So the flexor hallucis longus muscle supports the arch and can help control pronation . But how do you determine if it is weak or functionally less active than it should be, and how would you correct this ?
     
  33. Stanley

    Stanley Well-Known Member

    If it is weak, then walking in the sand or the use of a foot exerciser. Most likely the muscle is inhibited. This can be done by manual muscle testing. But it is a skill that takes time to learn. Basically you put the isolated muscle in a maximally contracted position. Then you try to lengthen it. For the FHL that would mean forcing the toe upwards. You start with a light for and gradually increase it. I find that everyone is wired differently, so there are different responses. You should feel the muscle contract against the resistance. You might find no resistance at all or you might find that there is no resistance initially. So repeat several times and if this reoccurs every time, this shows and inhibited muscle. You might find no resistance at all. Cramping is a sign of inhibition. What you are looking for is the ability to obtain an isometric contraction. Be careful not to overpower the muscle. I like to get to the point that it moves a little and see if it springs back, as this shows an isometric contraction. If it doesn't spring back, then the fibers have slid. You see this with strong people that fight the entire time.
    Then comes the fun part, finding out why there is inhibition. Sometimes it is simple like a strain counter strain injury due to a failure of alpha gamma coactivation which will respond to acupuncture or osteopathic techniques such as strain counterstrain, but the majority of time there is a reason why the muscle was inhibited that then results in a strain counterstrain injury. BTW, you can't build muscles well that are inhibited as you require a contraction around 75-80% to stimulate growth.
     
  34. scotfoot

    scotfoot Well-Known Member

    Hi Stanley ,
    Thanks for the info . Recent research seems to be linking weakness in the great toe flexors and patellofemoral pain, but as you say it might be not only weakness but also lack of effort on the muscles part .

    A paper produced by Taddei et al 2020 showed that foot core strengthening can reduce running related injuries by over 50% . Interestingly, the big difference was in the rate of more proximal injuries like PFP and not injuries of the foot and ankle .

    A couple of other papers have variously shown that 1 Strengthening the foot toe flexors can reduce pain in PFP and 2 that the abductor hallucis ,a toe flexor as well as abductor, is smaller in people with PFP .
     
  35. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Does the Foot and Ankle Alignment Impact the Patellofemoral Pain Syndrome? A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis
    Nicolò Martinelli et al
    J Clin Med. 2022 Apr 17;11(8):2245
     
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