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Forensic podiatry

Discussion in 'General Issues and Discussion Forum' started by Ian Linane, Dec 16, 2004.

  1. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member


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    Hi guys

    Following on from the posting on biometrics.

    Over the last few years I have become involved in this area using certain podiatry observational skills to help police in their enquiries, either to eliminate or implicate an individual. In particular I have used gait and posture as the tool for analysing CCTV.

    Whilst I have my own, many, questions over this area and begun writing my own little framework for its use I would like to open this out a little and see if you can bring in put for me by exploring some of the follpwing questions:


    1. Do you think it is possible?

    2. What main markers would you use for identification?

    There are other questions but these two are important to start with.

    Thanks for your help. :)

    Ian
     
  2. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    Hi Ian,
    I think gait and posture may be useful identifiers when combined with other factors (type of clothing worn/height of subject).
    Just an amateur observation you understand :) .
    Cheers,
    David
     
  3. bigtoe

    bigtoe Active Member

    Hi there, Mr Willie Kerr at Queen Margaret University Edinburgh, is the man you should talk to, if i remember right he has done major study in this area, you should be able to get his email from the university web site.

    forensic podiatry is used widely! and is an up and coming area of study!

    hope this helps you out.
     
  4. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    Thanks Big Toe and David.

    Ian
     
  5. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Ian,

    Another name of note in this field is Dr wesley Vernon who I think is based in Sheffield but has also recently joined the team at Staffordshire University(who run the MSc in Clinical Biomechanics).

    If you know of any key papers in this field could you post them up here? I'm sure I'm one of many who would enjoy reading them

    Many thanks

    Ian
     
  6. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    6
  7. Morgan

    Morgan Member

    Hi Ian
    Just read the thread. There is paper called "Identifying the wearer of worn footwear". A search on NCBI should find it for you.

    Morgan
     
  8. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    Hi

    Thanks to all concerned.

    I have been concerned that when studying gait for identification purposes (in CCTV analysis) there has been a narrowing of the field.

    e.g. use of the degree of genu varum alone etc

    To that extent I have tried to combine postural and gait parameters to develope a system of creating as many identifying markers as possible, against which to make a comparison between a known and unknown person.

    All information / ideas gratefully received

    Ian
     
  9. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    Podiatry, Forensic History!

    Hi Ian,

    Gait and CCTV Analysis sounds good. I have seen a TV. Doc. where a Forensic Podiatrist/pathologist was used by police to examine feet. (USA?), where a couple of fractures had occurred in the bones of the feet! X-Rays had been taken at the local hospital! The skeleton was identified by comparison similar to Forensic Dentist and teeth.

    I had a woman fished out of the river, our forensic Dentist identified her by taking a cast of the teeth and traced a possible missing persons dentist and her dental record's! Application to feet perhaps. A sequel to this I still don't know how my hands ended up down her throat holding the dentist's Silicone mould, crafty he was but brilliant at his work for us, Mr. Jackson I think was his name?

    Forensic Podiatry was done by our support 'Home Office Forensic Scientist' in my time! Damage to foot wear showing up in fingerprint powder then compared to suspects shoes,(Like car tyre and scene mark!).

    One of the classics 1930's something was a thief who broke into a house and found some new shoes, he swapped them for his old ones and left them behind at the scene! The Scientist removed the uppers, caste them and the feet of the thief, (Bumps and hollows, particularly the metatarsal joints!). Perfect fit Jailed on the evidence!

    Footprints rare. Thieves were so inconsiderate, they would wear shoes you know! Have been caught when they took off their shoes to walk quietly in burglary though!!! Sixteen plus identification points, better than fingerprints! Today possible traces of DNA from sweaty feet and sweaty shoes possible, perhaps???

    The way a villain walkers with gait abnormalities possible I'm sure!

    History Ian rather than direct application I'm afraid, hope it's useful. Stance and gait I'm sure holds prospects on the new spy in the sky! Forensic Science used to be a closed sacred territory, different today perhaps?

    Regards,

    Colin.

    PS. Det. Supt. borrowed my books, last I saw of them, typical! I'm sure Google might help?
     
  10. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    Hi Colin

    Thanks for the info.

    Having done several cases of this now I am of the view that gait alone must have an extreme unusuality about it to be suffiencient for identification. For this reaon I have tended to apply the combination of posture and gait. This allows for you to observe postural alignments and movements and combine it with information from the individuals gait.

    There are hugely significant issues to be aware of.

    Cheers
    Ian
     
  11. C Bain

    C Bain Active Member

    Gait?

    Hi Ian,

    Yes I'm afraid so we used to be always looking for the unusual all the time to raise the value of the evidence! Splayed foot for instance, never mind the Latin! Usually the Scientific Aids Officers specialized in the recovery of footprints, (Plaster casting etc.?), but normal surfaces would not give you the detail you needed for top value evidence the 'Physical Fit'? The splay also destroyed the detail in the print because he was walking scrubbing his foot to stop falling over!

    Identification on camera, physical and demeanour helpful possibly crucial as we have just seen as we watch TV. (No discussion, details, please here Ian!).

    A good Q.C. and there are a few of them about, (Now that one could be risky and duly noted!), can really take pleasure in having a go at the expert witness! It's not all sweetness and roses?

    Regards,

    Colin.

    PS. Sherlock Holmes rides again! The writer really did know what he was talking about even if traditionally the Force usually used to talk him down even in my time!
     
  12. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    The forensic analysis of soils and sediment taken from the cast of a footprint.
    Bull PA, Parker A, Morgan RM.
    Forensic Sci Int. 2006 Aug 16
     
  13. achilles

    achilles Active Member

    Ian,
    I am interested in evaluating a suspect, you can assess the gait pattern, when subjects wear different clothing,long coats, run, carry a bag, rucksack etc...
    The perceived angle of viewing and parallax error is particularly great.
    As an aside, much work has been done on the ear as identification tool!!
    Apparently very individual!
     
  14. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    Hi Achilles

    The ear, or at least a particular part of the ear, was a key in identifying the possibility of whether an individual was one of Sadam Husseins sons or not. Apparently it is exceedingly difficult to alter it, even with plastic surgery.

    From your opening are you saying you are actually doing an analysis?

    Ian
     
  15. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    The development and practice of forensic podiatry.
    Vernon W.
    J Clin Forensic Med. 2006 Oct 4
     
  16. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

  17. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

  18. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
  19. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    ".....to combine postural and gait parameters..."
    They better hope they dont get some corrective orthotics in between the CCTV images and the Arrest :D
     
  20. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Establishing correlation of footprints with body weight-Forensic aspects.
    Krishan K.
    Forensic Sci Int. 2008 May 30. [Epub ahead of print]
     
  21. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Identification of Sex Depending on Radiological Examination of Foot and Patella.
    Abdel Moneim WM, Abdel Hady RH, Abdel Maaboud RM, Fathy HM, Hamed AM
    Am J Forensic Med Pathol. 2008 Jun;29(2):136-140
     
  22. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Stature estimation from foot dimensions.
    Kanchan T, Menezes RG, Moudgil R, Kaur R, Kotian MS, Garg RK.
    Forensic Sci Int. 2008 Jul 4. [Epub ahead of print]
     
  23. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Sex determination by discriminant analysis of calcaneal measurements on the lateral digital radiography
    Zhang ZH, Chen XG, Li WK, Yang SQ, Deng ZH, Yu JQ, Yang ZG, Huang L.
    Fa Yi Xue Za Zhi. 2008 Apr;24(2):122-5.
     
  24. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    The Post Tribune are reporting:
    If the shoe fits... Crown Point podiatrist fighting crime
    Full story
     
  25. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  26. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Age-Related Factors in the Relationship Between Foot Measurements and Living Stature and Body Weight.
    Atamturk D, Duyar I.
    J Forensic Sci. 2008 Aug 18. [Epub ahead of print]
     
  27. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    An efficient clustering-based retrieval framework for real crime scene footwear marks.
    Yi Tang, Harish Kasiviswanathan, Sargur N. Srihari.
    International Journal of Granular Computing, Rough Sets and Intelligent Systems, 2012; 2 (4): 327
    Press Release:
    Footwear forensics
    CSI needs to tread carefully
     
  28. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Footprint ridge density: A new attribute for sexual dimorphism
    T. Kanchan, K. Krishan, K.R. Aparna, S. Shyamsunder
    HOMO - Journal of Comparative Human Biology (Available online 6 November 2012)
     
  29. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
  30. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    The identification of individuals by observational gait analysis using closed circuit television footage
    Ivan Birch, Louis Raymond, Anastasia Christou, Milan Angelo Fernando, Nigel Harrison, Flo Paul
    Science & Justice in press
     
  31. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    Great work by the Brighton students and Ivan. Well done.

    "This study investigated the ability of individuals with experience in gait analysis to identify people by observing features of gait recorded by closed circuit television cameras (CCTV). Seven experienced analysts each viewed five samples of footage. Each sample showed a “target walker” and five “suspect walkers.” The task of the experienced analysts was to determine which, if any, of the “suspect walkers” was the “target walker.” All of the participant “walkers” wore identical loose fitting clothing to mask anatomical and body contour features, and balaclavas to obscure facial features. The overall results showed that the experienced analysts made a correct decision in 124 of 175 cases (71%), significantly better than would have been expected to have occurred by chance (p < 0.05). A significant variation in correct decisions (p < 0.05) was shown to occur between the various angles from which the footage was recorded, footage recorded in the saggital plane showing the highest number of correct decisions. Significantly more correct decisions (p < 0.05) were also shown to occur when the footage of the “target walker” and that of the “suspect walker” were taken from the same angle. The results suggest that individuals with experience in gait analysis perform well in the comparative identification of suspects from CCTV footage, and therefore do have a role to play as expert witnesses in this field."
     
  32. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    This should prove very useful in Civil work too. Especially as a foundation reference when highlighting the causes of antalgic gait after injury.

    Well done team and thanks to Ian for posting.
     
  33. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    Hi David
    Admin did the initial post on the previous page really just that I thought it should show up on the second page.

    Considering there was little distinguishing visual information:

    All of the participant “walkers” wore identical loose fitting clothing to mask anatomical and body contour features, and balaclavas to obscure facial features

    I think the result is reasonable. In actual CCTV work anatomical landmarks and body contours can be significant contributors.
     
  34. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Articles:
    1
    Daniel Morcombe trial: Shoes found at crime scene had same wear pattern as ones in murdered Qld teen's room
    Full story
     
  35. jasmineemily

    jasmineemily Member

    Hello,
    I am very interested in forensics and addicted to the programmes! Has anybody done the forensic podiatry masters degree? I would love to become involved in this section but feel it is a very very small area for business?
     
  36. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    Hi Jasmin

    It is indeed a fascinating area to work in. With regard to the Masters I would make contact with Prof Wes Vernon (He is on here) and chat with him regards what is involved.
     
  37. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    The work is there if you are up to the challenge.
    Ian Linane on here has done quite a bit, and I think has been on at The Old Bailey (right side of the dock!:D). Talk of the devil - he just squeaked in front of me on the thread.

    Do the Post-Grad Cert first and see how you find it. This will allow you to dip a toe in the water before committing to the Masters. You'll have to do the Cert in any case if you want to complete the Masters (my understanding, and they may have changed the rules since I talked to Wesley Vernon last).
     
  38. jasmineemily

    jasmineemily Member

    Okay thank you guys. How do I search Mr Vernon on here?
     
  39. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    Use the search function and put in Prof Vernon - nice bloke, very approachable.
     
  40. Admin2

    Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

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