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Global Cooling?

Discussion in 'Break Room' started by drsarbes, Jan 8, 2014.

  1. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

  2. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    This is good news...Wisonsin just broke a record today for the most days (49) with sub zero temperatures for Winter ( and we still have lots of winter left)
    So what's the good news?
    Obviously global warmer is OVER
    Isn't that wonderful?

    Wow, I guess we dodged a bullet there.

    Steve
     
  3. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    This is very interesting. Be sure to read all the way to the bottom.

    The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consulafft, at Bergen , Norway.

    Reports from fishermen, seal hunters, and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes.

    Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared.
    Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds. Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coastal cities uninhabitable.

    I apologize, I neglected to mention that this report was from November 2, 1922, as reported by the AP and published in The Washington Post - 90+ years ago.
     
  4. daisyboi

    daisyboi Active Member

    I'm not entirely sure what point you are making Steve. You seem stuck on the term Global Warming, which is unhelpful. Perhaps the term climate change is better. Now, I'm not for or against either side of this argument as I simply don't know enough about it but it seems if Wisonsin is experiencing a record-breaking run of sub-zero temperatures then this is good evidence FOR climate change. Or am I missing something?
     
  5. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Not hearing much about Global Warming lately. Maybe we have the opposite problem. Global Cooling. possibly have the "coldest January 7th on record" for the average temps of all 50 states if we are in the middle of Global

    How can we Warming? I'm sure there is some fuzzy politically induced science out there to explain this.


    Right. So because something less than 2% of the surface area of the earth is suffering record cold during one month or so you think it reasonable and intelligent to use that fact to make comments about global warming, ie the other 98% of the surface area?


    My OTHER big problem with the global warming crowd is that when someone disagrees with them it's because we are either "stupid" or we are ignoring the "facts".....(you know...we are too subjective!) If you feel you are correct, argue your point with facts, don't try to disallow an opposing view point by merely discrediting their level of education or "objectiveness'

    I think that your opening statement supports this view?

    Bill
     
  6. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    A co-founder of Greenpeace told lawmakers there is no evidence man is contributing to climate change, and said he left the group when it became more interested in politics than the environment.

    Patrick Moore, a Canadian ecologist and business consultant who was a member of Greenpeace from 1971-86, told members of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee environmental groups like the one he helped establish use faulty computer models and scare tactics in promoting claims man-made gases are heating up the planet.

    “There is no scientific proof that human emissions of carbon dioxide (CO2) are the dominant cause of the minor warming of the Earth’s atmosphere over the past 100 years,” he said.

    Even if the planet is warming up, Moore claimed it would not be calamitous for men, which he described as a “subtropical species.”

    Skeptics of manmade climate change say there is no evidence the Earth is warming. A UN report on the scientific data behind global warming released in September indicated that global surface temperatures have not increased for the past 15 years, but scientists who believe climate change due to man is occurring say it has merely paused because of several factors and will soon resume.

    The 2,200-page new Technical Report attributes that to a combination of several factors, including natural variability, reduced heating from the sun and the ocean acting like a “heat sink” to suck up extra warmth in the atmosphere.

    Moore said he left Greenpeace in the 1980s because he believed it became more interested in politics than science.

    “After 15 years in the top committee I had to leave as Greenpeace took a sharp turn to the political left, and began to adopt policies that I could not accept from my scientific perspective,” he said. “Climate change was not an issue when I abandoned Greenpeace, but it certainly is now.”
     
  7. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Bill
    Look around.....
    Observation.
    Don't be a lemming.
    And it's not just my state ( which, by the way is rather large) , I only mention it because I happen to live here. It's 3 degrees F this morning....a heat wave.

    Nothing is constant, least of all the whether, but do not blame man for its variations.

    Steve
     
  8. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Absolutely right, your state is rather large. it represents about 0.033% of the surface area of the earth. Surely that's more than large enough to make predictions about global warming.

    In fact in my freezer this morning the temperature was -18°C! That clinches it for me - your right there is no global warming.

    Bill
     
  9. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Hi Bill
    Great!
    Do this for me.
    Open your freezer and get in, close the door, and you will be able to feel what it's like here.
    Very good.
    That does it for me too!

    Your sarcasm is not lost on me. My point is very simple…MAN is not changing the weather.
    Weather change science has stopped being a science a long time ago, when it was obvious large amounts of money and power were at stake. For us to argue the point is, well, pointless.

    As far as I am aware I still have to freedom to observe my own (admittedly small) environment and comment on it. It's freezing here. It's one of the coldest, snowiest, longest winter in history here. You are in France…wonderful, I hope it's beautiful there right now. If you have any plans on visiting the Midwest of the united states, cancel. It's been brutal here.

    Steve
     
  10. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Your sarcasm is not lost on me. My point is very simple…MAN is not changing the weather.
    Weather change science has stopped being a science a long time ago, when it was obvious large amounts of money and power were at stake. For us to argue the point is, well, pointless.


    If it is correct that weather change science has stopped being a science long ago then the best you can logically say is that you don't know whether man is or is not changing the weather.

    As far as I am aware I still have to freedom to observe my own (admittedly small) environment and comment on it. It's freezing here. It's one of the coldest, snowiest, longest winter in history here. You are in France…wonderful, I hope it's beautiful there right now. If you have any plans on visiting the Midwest of the united states, cancel. It's been brutal here.

    Lets hope that you always have the freedom to observe your own environment and comment upon it and lets hope that I always have the freedom to observe and comment upon the fact that extrapolating from your local environment to the global environment is nonsensical.

    Bill
     
  11. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Perfect
    We don't know. ( that's WE...meaning you, me, all others)
    Thank you.
    Seems like those who back political-economic change due to Global Warming FACTS are just so sure of themselves....to the point where one cannot really vocalize an opposing viewpoint without getting crucified ( comments in this thread are a case in point)

    "nonsensical"

    Really.

    That's why I put this thread in the Break Room. Not much science going on here. None really.

    And...speaking of extrapolation....that's what forecasts are made of....including global warming.

    Please. You cannot have it both ways.

    The one fact that remains...I'm freezing!!!

    Steve
     
  12. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    And BTW.
    This is not the face of global warming, is it? Haven't seen this around here...ever!
     

    Attached Files:

  13. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    Steve, I'm forbidden from participating further; the after-effects of the concussion, a result of my last correspondence with you, still linger, Mark
     
  14. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    "nonsensical"

    Really.


    Yes. Extrapolating from your local environment to the global environment is nonsensical.


    That's why I put this thread in the Break Room. Not much science going on here. None really.

    There is no point in trying to move on to science until you have mastered logic.


    And speaking of extrapolation.... that's what forecasts are made of....including global warming.

    So it's OK for me to extrapolate from the environment in my fridge to the global environment then?


    The one fact that remains...I'm freezing!!!

    I don't question that and when I see the block of ice that your house is encased in I understand your dilema.

    Bill
     
  15. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Steve,

    I can understand that having your house covered in ice like that has to get to you mentally but take heart, there is always an upside.

    Firstly it shows just how effective your home insulation is and secondly you won't need to turn your AC on this summer and by the look of it possibly for the rest of the century.

    Bill
     
  16. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Haha
    I'd find all this funnier if it was not -9 F. And all the studies and temperature readings and extrapolation in the world isn't going to change that. Maybe I can shove some of the studies into my attic for even more insulation!

    Mark
    Get well soon. It's the Break Room! BTW, it was nice in Ixtapa...about the same as it's been every year when I visit. I didn't see one tourist burst into flames.

    Steve
     
  17. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Oh wait...our overnight low was -24F
    Oh my God.....I try to make light of all this but it really is not funny.

    Does anyone know who I can call to complain to?

    I think my best chance of dealing with this is to grab a flight to somewhere warm. Must be lots of them since "apparently" we are the only place not "suffering" record high temps!!!!!!

    I guess I should just be happy to be here at all since the AIDS epidemic was suppose to kill us all off by 2000. Another bullet dodged. Maybe all the AIDS extrapolators switched to Global Warming predictions. That would explain a lot.


    Steve
     
  18. Steve:

    Please come to California. We are in the midst of the worst drought ever in our history and bring lots of that Green Bay snow with you!

    However, thankfully, we have had a pretty rainy week so we are now at 44% of normal rainfall and have about 25% of the snowpack in the Sierra Nevada mountains that we should normally have at this time of year.

    Ship the snow west.....but leave those cheese-head hats in Wisconsin!!! ;)
     
  19. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Hi Kevin:
    I'll try and help.
    Will be in San Diego at the end of April. My oldest grandson is graduating from Marine Boot Camp.
    Semper Fi
     
  20. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    Hi Steve,

    Just had a look at some of the weather statistics for Green Bay Wisconsin to see if we could give you something to look forward to.

    The coldest March temperature, which was recorded back in the '60s, is -29°F so you've got a bit of leaway there?

    The highest temperature was in July 1880 whan the temperature reached 104°F. Now that's something to look forward to.

    While global warming is undoubtedly a fact, because the most imposing feature of it, at this stage, is disruption to 'normal' weather patterns it can be hard to see what's happening outside one's locality. Less not being able to see the wood for the trees and more not being able to feel the heat for the ice for some at least.

    Having been back in the UK since October last year I, along with a few million others, have experienced months of almost incessant rain ( with consequent flooding) and high winds combined with temperatures that have rarely fallen below zero. I have read about the mistral winds causing insanity but incessant rain over a few months dampens more than the spirits.

    I am sure that you are looking forward to some better weather and I am looking forward to your weather reports from Green Bay in July and August when I hope that you can continue to assert that global warming is a myth and that global cooling is the reality.

    Me. I am following your lead. When I open the curtains and look out in the morning I believe that whatever I see outside my window mirrors what is happening worldwide. This morning the sun is shining in a clear blue sky and all is well with the world and I am going off to play at Peter Pan and Captain Hook with my grandson. Should I worry that he sometimes wants to be Tinkerbell?

    Best wishes,

    Bill

    PS Hold on Steve, it will get warmer.
     
  21. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Hi Bill:

    Tinkerbell............hmmmmmmm.....no comment. HAHAHA

    Well, snowing again here, 4 inches over night. But it's warmed up to a balmy +10 degrees F !
    Heat wave!

    Interesting that the warmest day in Green Bay was 135 years ago. I recall a very hot summer in 2001, we even canceled a golf match one day due to the heat!

    I guess I started being a contrarian on the issue of Global Warming after seeing Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth."
    What a collection of "crockery". Talk about pseudo science and manufactured drama!
    Yikes.

    And yet Alaska Dept of Fish and Game has been unable to find evidence of even ONE drowned polar bear.

    Maybe the earth is warming up, maybe not, maybe temporary, maybe long term, maybe the weather is changing... for better or worse. My point is that all these changes, whatever they may actually be, are NOT being caused by man. It's nature. Accept it.

    After seeing patients I'll follow the "if life hands you a lemons..." philosophy - I'll go out and make a snow man!

    Good luck with Peter Pan.

    Steve
     
  22. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    I guess I started being a contrarian on the issue of Global Warming after seeing Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth."
    What a collection of "crockery". Talk about pseudo science and manufactured drama!


    I am just wondering out loud, so to speak, if your problem isn't more with Al Gore than it is with global warming? "He speak with forked tongue", therefore whatever he says must be wrong and I will believe the opposite.

    After seeing patients I'll follow the "if life hands you a lemons..." philosophy - I'll go out and make a snow man!

    Excellent winter activity but for summer be sure to invest in sunscreen and if your funds run to it invest in the companies making the sunscreen.

    Good luck with Peter Pan.

    No Tinkerbell yesterday. He was more of a cross between Peter Pan, Captain Hook and a serial killer. He spent more than an hour using his hand as a sword to cut off various pieces of my anatomy. My fingers, hands, arms, nose, ears and head were amputated on a number of occasions and all of it with a running commentary while I was holding his head above the water during his swimming lesson. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Still in a three year old it's quite endearing.

    One of his friends has gone one better than Tinkerbell. He refuses to go out unless he can wear his pink princess dress and tiara.

    I hope that they can keep this redefinition of masculinity going into adulthood without it getting covered in macho.

    Bill
     
  23. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Hi Bill

    Yes, you are correct, I do not like or respect Al Gore.

    As I have said before, my issue is with the idea that MAN is responsible for changes in weather patterns.

    When there are large political and financial consequences one must realize the high probability that very little is objective. There are agendas that have nothing what so ever to do with science.

    THAT being said....I'm off to St. Thomas, USVI tomorrow for some SUN, tropical drinks, beaches, women in bikinis and golf (or golfing with women in bikinis)

    Please let it be warm!!!!

    Steve
     
  24. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    (With helmet fixed securely on cranium, with extra frontal lobe cushioning) goodaye Steve, we are referring to the AGW skeptic/deniers, yes?
     
  25. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Mark:
    How are you?
    Need some Tylenol?

    I wonder why, in your musing fashion, you feel that proponents of Global Warming (manmade) think that their position has been proven so completely that anyone putting forth a noncompliant point of view is worthy of giving you, the cerebral giants, a fontal lobe aneurysm?

    And if you feel geopolitics and wealth transfer have nothing to do with Global Warming (the AGW variety) than I suggest reading up on a little know organization call the United Nations.

    Hope your headache is better.

    Really, I do.

    Off to St. Thomas......and yes, I will look around again for evidence of said Global Warming... promise.

    If the Humans causing this most obvious, complete, heartless, greed-driven, catastrophic global destruction are down there, in a bar, I WILL find them.

    Steve
     
  26. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    Steve, I'm not a climate scientist; i haven't done any scientific observations/recordings/modelling. I only read the evidence.
    Sorry, the reference to the UN, what should i read?
    Whilst searching for UN and "global warming" came across,
    "Greenpeace presented evidence of the energy industry funding climate change denial in their 'Exxon Secrets' project.[27][28] An analysis conducted by The Carbon Brief in 2011 found that 9 out of 10 of the most prolific authors who cast doubt on climate change or speak against it have ties to ExxonMobil. Greenpeace have said that Koch industries invested more than US$50 million in the past 50 years on spreading doubts about climate change.[29][30][31] ExxonMobil announced in 2008 that it would cut its funding to many of the groups that "divert attention" from the need to find new sources of clean energy, although it continues to fund over "two dozen other organisations who question the science of global warming or attack policies to solve the crisis."[32] A survey carried out by the UK Royal Society found that in 2005 ExxonMobil distributed US$2.9 million to 39 groups that "misrepresented the science of climate change by outright denial of the evidence".[32]
     
  27. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Hi Mark

    The UN members must stay up at night figuring out new and wonderful ways of controlling global economies through environmental international agreements..... haven't noticed? Wonder how many Global Climate Change studies they have footed the bill for? (or should I say have WE footed the bill for)

    In any event....

    Did some research on the issue of global warming while in St Thomas USVI - and as promised I did look in various drinking establishments trying to find those humans responsible...

    I really couldn't find anyone that would take responsibility, in fact most of those I tried to discuss the issue with basically told me "no worries mon - be happy - no problem..."

    The weather there was a bit cooler than last year at this time, perhaps low 80s rather than mid 80s.. so I've decided to continue my research and return next year. I may devote myself full time once I retire.

    Steve

    ps
    FDRs worst decision? I thought it was the Social Security Act.
     
  28. efuller

    efuller MVP

    How exactly is the UN controlling global economies? Who controlls the UN?

    Initially, people who denied that global warming was happpening cried for more studies. More studies have come and the majority of those support that global warming is occuring. So, it appears, the next tactic of deniers is to complain about the number of studies funded by the UN. :dizzy:
     
  29. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    OK

    You win.

    We have global warming. Man is causing it. We are a greedy, selfish, narrow minded species.
    We're all going to either burn up or drown..... OR maybe both (is that possible? I hope so because we surely deserve it)

    Give me a date so I can plan for it. You must have a study telling us when we can expect our demise. Please send me the date ASAP just in case it's rather soon.


    Steve
     
  30. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Never mind...I found the date myself. Wasn't even that difficult (right next to a study on the Mayan Calendar!)

    2047 (no month or day however...so hopefully towards the END of the year.

    Well, I'll be 97 then, hopefully in some nice nursing home (with A/C) groping at young nurses.

    Oregon State University Study!!! What a surprise! hahaha

    Steve
    =====================

    "WASHINGTON—Starting in about a decade, Kingston, Jamaica, will probably be off-the-charts hot — permanently. Other places will soon follow. Singapore in 2028. Mexico City in 2031. Cairo in 2036. Phoenix and Honolulu in 2043.
    And, eventually, the whole world in 2047.
    A new study on global warming pinpoints the probable dates for when cities and ecosystems around the world will regularly experience hotter environments the likes of which they have never seen before.
    And for dozens of cities, mostly in the tropics, those dates are a generation or less away.
    “This paper is both innovative and sobering,” said Oregon State University professor Jane Lubchenco, former head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, who was not involved in the study.
    To arrive at their projections, the researchers used weather observations, computer models and other data to calculate the point at which every year from then on will be warmer than the hottest year ever recorded over the last 150 years............................"
     
  31. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Wisconsin fishing opening day!!!!
     

    Attached Files:

  32. efuller

    efuller MVP

    Just heard that California had the hottest Winter ever recorded.
     
  33. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    No activity here for a while....is global warming over?
    How about a little cut and paste.......I know you'll love this.
    And of course all these scientists are wrong and all the under contract scientists at the UN are correct. Obviously. You would have to be an idiot not to believe our planet is on the brink of bursting into flames. Poor polar bears.

    enjoy...
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change released a 1,063-page report documenting global warming’s beneficial impact on the biosphere. The report, Climate Change Reconsidered II: Biological Impacts, provides a comprehensive analysis of the impact of global warming on plants, terrestrial animals, aquatic life, and human well-being.

    The new volume is the fifth produced by the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change. A sixth volume, Climate Change Reconsidered II: Human Welfare, Energy, and Policies, is scheduled for release in May.

    Report Counters IPCC Claims
    More than 30 scientists served as authors and reviewers for the new volume. The volume cites more than 1,000 peer-reviewed studies supporting the conclusion that global warming is not causing substantial harm to the biosphere. This directly counters alarmist assertions by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

    “Biological Impacts broadly tracks and critiques the work of IPCC’s Working Group II…. It appears IPCC is continuing its pattern of selectively reporting data to present an alarmist view of the impacts of climate change,” the report explains.
     
  34. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    Those '30 scientists' include Fred Singer, Craig Idso, and Robert Carter, correct?
    Published by 'The Heartland Institute', correct?
    And 'AGW conspiracy ideators' claim there is collusion elsewhere? right .......................
     
  35. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Right.
    Idiots.
    ALL the guys in the UN study are beyond reproach.....of course.
    What was I thinking?
    If you can't argue the findings then attack the person...correct? Beautiful. My ex does that all the time.
    GOD...I'm sitting here sweating my arse off!!!!
     
  36. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    No wrong Steve, I never said that.
    Re-read the 3rd line ....
     
  37. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Again. Where is the science?
    Entire groups of "scientists" derive conflicting conclusions.
    WHY?
    Politics?
    Something other than science affecting results?
    Who benefits from various conclusions?

    Again, I am convinced there is NO SCIENCE in the science of global climatology.
     
  38. efuller

    efuller MVP

    Steve, I can say unequivocally that you are wrong. There is plenty of science, some of it may be conflicting, but there is plenty of science. In fact you recently mentioned that there were a lot of studies funded by the UN. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

    When there is conflicting science there is a good chance that someone is more right than someone else. Steve, you seem to be an advocate of the position that since there is conflict, no one can be right and we should just stop looking at it. This is not how science advances.

    Eric
     
  39. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    I detest what little countryside we have left in the UK being disfigured by the pylons of massive wind generators. These things are a blot on some of the most beautiful scenery we have, and they slaughter birds, bats and other wildlife. Then we have to subsidise the damn things because they are so inefficient. Other so-called 'green' power is likewise inefficient. Having said that, and leaving aside conflicting studies, the opinion of Al Gore and others, it surely makes sense to stop throwing crap into the atmosphere? The one good thing that the debate has done is to raise awareness of the limited sustainability of fossil fuels, and the potential political difficulties if powers unfriendly to the west were to pull the plug. So frack away for the time being, increase nuclear fission temporarily, increase research on fusion and bring on the hydrogen generators - surely, just around the corner?

    Bill Liggins
     
  40. Rob Kidd

    Rob Kidd Well-Known Member

    When I was an Earth Sciences student in the 80's, we were taught that it was just around the corner. Sadly J A T C seems to be a relative time............. could be some years yet, and I will likely be dead by then.
     
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