Welcome to the Podiatry Arena forums

You are currently viewing our podiatry forum as a guest which gives you limited access to view all podiatry discussions and access our other features. By joining our free global community of Podiatrists and other interested foot health care professionals you will have access to post podiatry topics (answer and ask questions), communicate privately with other members, upload content, view attachments, receive a weekly email update of new discussions, access other special features. Registered users do not get displayed the advertisements in posted messages. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our global Podiatry community today!

  1. Everything that you are ever going to want to know about running shoes: Running Shoes Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Have you considered the Critical Thinking and Skeptical Boot Camp, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
Dismiss Notice
Have you liked us on Facebook to get our updates? Please do. Click here for our Facebook page.
Dismiss Notice
Do you get the weekly newsletter that Podiatry Arena sends out to update everybody? If not, click here to organise this.

Glutes not firing?

Discussion in 'General Issues and Discussion Forum' started by hkpod, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. hkpod

    hkpod Active Member

    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    Ok, I am a bit nervous putting this one out there.
    So, at the risk of looking totally stupid & having a backlash of comments from the smart people out there.......:butcher:

    I seem to have had a number of athletic patients (mainly walkers/runners) that have been diagnosed by their physio with "glutes not firing" & have been referred for orthoses.
    What does this terminology really mean? Surely the glutes have to be firing for the patient to be walking or am I being too literal & totally missing something here? And if the muscles are in fact just weak, is this just a case of poor terminology?
    If I have totally missed something here I would appreciate some help as I feel some extra knowledge would be beneficial for my patients. And for me :eek:
    Thanks in advance!
  2. Lorcan

    Lorcan Active Member

    The physio may mean "weak" or "misfiring" as in not in correct sequence or a combination of both. This may for example be due to an anterior pelvic tilt in compensation for Functional Hallux Limitus although this is not the only possibility.
  3. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Activating the gluts is extremely important for good running technique, but it is also the latest snake oil as it supposed to cure everything.

    See this thread: Activating the gluteal muscles
  4. hkpod

    hkpod Active Member

    Thanks Craig. I missed that thread.
    I did wonder if this was a new cure-all as weak glutes didn't seem to be the only issue with these particular patients.
  5. mr2pod

    mr2pod Active Member

    Lisa - I'm curious whether the referring physio/s really expected that an orthotic was going to get the glut firing?
  6. hkpod

    hkpod Active Member

  7. phil

    phil Active Member

    How would orthotics do this? "Fire" the glutes, i mean.
  8. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    Ian Griffiths sent me some good gluteal recruitment exercise once, perhaps he might post them up this way.
  9. I generally do these glute exercises while posting on Podiatry Arena....saves time......;)
  10. RunDNC

    RunDNC Member

    Interesting paper reviewing the effect of hip strengthening ie sidelying hip extension, resistance band clamshell , bilateral squat with resistance band targeting
    HER, contralateral pelvic hike (HABD) against wall, single leg squat....etc... on running

    Results suggests that hip strengthening exercises will improve hip strength when performing single leg squat however there was no significant changes in running mechanics following the hip strengthening program.

    The Effect of a Hip-Strengthening Program on Mechanics During Running and During a Single-Leg Squat

    Richard W. Willy, Irene S. Davis

    DOI: 10.2519/jospt.2011.3470

    STUDY DESIGN: Block randomized controlled trial.

    OBJECTIVES: To investigate whether a strengthening and movement education program, targeting the hip abductors and hip external rotators, alters hip mechanics during running and during a single-leg squat.

    BACKGROUND: Abnormal movement patterns during running and single-leg squatting have been associated with a number of running-related injuries in females. Therapeutic interventions for these aberrant movement patterns typically include hip strengthening. While these strengthening programs have been shown to improve symptoms, it is unknown if the underlying mechanics during functional movements is altered.

    METHODS: Twenty healthy females with excessive hip adduction during running, as determined by instrumented gait analysis, were recruited. The runners were matched by age and running distance, and randomized to either a training group or a control group. The training group completed a hip strengthening and movement education program 3 times per week for 6 weeks in addition to single-leg squat training with neuromuscular reeducation consisting of mirror and verbal feedback on proper mechanics. The control group did not receive an intervention but maintained the current running distance. Using a handheld dynamometer and standard motion capture procedures, hip strength and running and single-leg squat mechanics were compared before and after the strengthening and movement education program. RESULTS: While hip abductor and external rotation strength increased significantly (P<.005) in the training group, there were no significant changes in hip or knee mechanics during running. However, during the single-leg squat, hip adduction, hip internal rotation, and contralateral pelvic drop all decreased significantly (P = .006, P = .006, and P = .02, respectively). The control group exhibited no changes in hip strength, nor in the single-leg squat or running mechanics at the conclusion of the 6-week study.

    CONCLUSION: A training program that included hip strengthening and movement training specific to single-leg squatting did not alter running mechanics but did improve single-leg squat mechanics. These results suggest that hip strengthening and movement training, when not specific to running, do not alter abnormal running mechanics.

    LEVEL OF EVIDENCE: Therapy, level 2b.

    J Orthop Sports Phys Ther 2011;41(9):625-632, Epub 12 July 2011. doi:10.2519/jospt.2011.3470

    KEY WORDS: biomechanics, gluteus, knee, lower extremity
  11. phil

    phil Active Member

    My assessment is that her glutes are definately firing!
  12. Lorcan

    Lorcan Active Member

    ...g mn
  13. drsha

    drsha Banned

    Sarcastically, do you mean like subtalar joint axis correction?

  14. drsha

    drsha Banned

    In these cases, there is a relationship to FF SERM-PERM and L-4/L-5 (low back pain) and Inhibited Gluteals.

    The flat foot created by the flexible forefoot FFT relates to a "flat butt".

    The powerful and massive glutes of the ballet dancer is the result of a well trained peroneus longus attached to a rigid rearfoot/flexible forefoot FFT.

    In this postural chain, the subtalar joint is merely a conduit joint as is the ankle and the knee and IMHO, it is the FHL and compensatory threshold training of the inhibited muscle engines that need to be addressed.

  15. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    It has nothing to do with hours of training using the glutes to do Arabesque positions?
  16. musmed

    musmed Active Member

    Dear All

    The late great Vlad Janda describes gluteal inhibition and changes in firing patterns between
    1. hamstring/gluteus medius and erector spinae
    2. gluteus medius/TFL and quadratus lumborum

    He also described muscle inhibition in the gluts secondarily to an immobile sacro-iliac joint on that side.

    releasing the SI joint gives immediate and dramatic power increase.

    The changing of firing sequences to improve efficiency and thus timing and power is another story. Some never get the sequence back.

    All have heard of athletes that explode from the blocks but die about the 70 metre mark while others come from behind.
    This all relates to sequence firing. In the first instance all is good until lactate hits and turns the gluts off while in the second group the gluts turn on to produce power. Mostly it these cases is the gluteus maximus.

    Raining here. we need it. high fire danger for the south coast
    Paul conneely

    poser: why do babies lie on their backs?
  17. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    We put them there - there is a dramatic amount of plagio and brachycephaly as a result
  18. musmed

    musmed Active Member

    no cigar unfortunately

    there is a clue in pyramidal and extra pyramidal origins

    Paul Conneely
  19. After this guy quit running barefoot and in minimalist shoes, and then started wearing foot orthoses and Brooks Beast shoes, he finally started to develop these phenomenal glutes...is there a link between glutes and orthoses...?;)
  20. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    Kevin, I did not give you permission to print the above photo of me ;)

    Benching 230lbs these days
  21. Blaise Dubois

    Blaise Dubois Active Member

    Glutes weakness, lack of endurance, and lack of control is the new trend in physio to explain knee problems (PFPS and ITB). Same focus on the consequences of this 'weakness' (dynamic knee valgus and pelvis drop) than the famous pronation 15 years ago. A lot of cross-sectional study (aprox 30) but just 3 prospectives and inconclusive studies... some interesting stuff but over look by physios.
    My opinion : nothing to do with orthotics.

  22. drsha

    drsha Banned

    Not one that is corrected by STJ RF Frontal plane orthotics!

    As Eric Fuller DPM admits on another thread, a RF Varus wedge, or any other heel cup correction, as he calls it, will not change the position of the foot in stance. It only alters the forces that it can exert on the foot, in this case, mainly the rearfoot.

    The way to impact the POSITION of the foot is to alter its structure. As I have been suggesting, that lives in the realm of architectural, not physics.

    If I have a structure that is collapsed, I do not tilt the entire structure to one side or the other, I raise it up and shore it foundationally. In other words, I fix it on the sagittal plane and to a lesser extent, the transverse plane.

    When I then, secondarily, add tilt so as to force functional change, it will have more impact (I will need to add less force!).

    In any foot with too much motion in the truss-tie beam system that is leading to a collapse (lengthening, widening and/or flattening of the foot, vaulting of the foot changes its position and eventually reduces the excess motion via Wolfs and Davis's Laws (positive structural change) so that forces applied are more productive.

    The Foot Centering Theory of Structure and Function is such a theory as is Dr Roots and Dr. Dananberg.

    IMHO Tissue stress and SALRE and hence The Podiatry Arena are too weighted in in the function portion of biomechanics and need to add more structural biomechanics in order to provide the research that they demand of others but cannot themselves provide.

Share This Page