Government Run Healthcare- Good or Evil

The United States is a melting pot of individuals from many countries and is very fond of using the best of what each country has for its people's benefit. However, to say that the development of the USA is mostly been due to other countries, really, is a joke. You should reconsider what the world may have been like without the USA and then post some comments that are less insulting.

 

It wasn't meant to be insulting Kevin, just pointing out that a previous post seemed to infer that the US was responsible for all the advances in the world since it existed, which it isn't. I did NOT say that the development of your country is due to other countries, although I could point out that Americans themselves are a product of many other countries. Your statement, "You should reconsider what the world may have been like without the USA" only succeeds in confirming my opinion of a CERTAIN American way of thinking, that the world would be a terrible place if it wasn't for the good ol' US of A leading the way. The only people who consider the US to be the greatest country in the world are (some) Americans. I do recognise the US contribution to the world, but certain (there's that word again!) Americans don't seem to recognise anyone else's.

 

gwilson:

Think you'd be posting in German if it were not for the Americans (like my father) who helped free europe during WWII?

Apparently our bravado personalities class with those of the UK. That's fine.

Happy to hear you had a successful treatment/experience after your accident.

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RE: UK health care

What would you expect the "normal procedure" to be for a more elective and common treatment, say, a knee scope for a medial meniscus tear?

Would you be seen by a primary care first?
How long a wait to see him?
Referred to surgeon right away?
MRI standard order for this?
What would the usual wait be for a scope?
Out of pocket expense?
Can you pick what surgeon you want to see?
Can you request a second opinion and get it in a reasonable amount of time?
Who decides how much time off from work you get?
WHo decides when you go back?
If you were 80 years old would you be treated differently in your system than say a 20 year old?

Thanks

Steve

 

I did say I acknowledge the US contribution, and their participation in WWII (and WWI) is properly appreciated!

Re UK healthcare
Would you be seen by a primary care first?
if an acute / emergency situation, would be seen by A&E (ER in the US), otherwise by a general practitioner within a few days, who would refer to the appropriate hospital / practitioner
How long a wait to see him?
I can't say for certain, hospital departments prioritise according to need. This is the main problem with our system - waiting times for treatment. Again, if this is an ER situation it would be seen to straight away if need be (as my injury was)
Referred to surgeon right away?
If appropriate, yes. Might not be seen by surgeon straight away though! (see above)
MRI standard order for this?
Don't know!
What would the usual wait be for a scope?
Not sure, but generally investigative procedures are done fairly quickly, the waiting part comes in where surgery or other inpatient treatments are needed. Following MRI for example, those who need more urgent treatment would be seen earlier.
Out of pocket expense?
None, unless you lost wages through being unable to work
Can you pick what surgeon you want to see?
Yes, although most people don't, and probably don't realise they can! You can ask the GP to refer to any surgeon you like
Can you request a second opinion and get it in a reasonable amount of time?
Normally, yes.
Who decides how much time off from work you get?
Your GP provides notification that you are unable to work, if necessary he will take advice from the surgeon.
WHo decides when you go back?
Do you mean back to work? As above!
If you were 80 years old would you be treated differently in your system than say a 20 year old?
In a way, yes - your age would be taken into account in the same way as your general health, weight, likelihood of success of the procedure, etc. - in other words, for medical reasons. If a surgical procedure is appropriate, you wouldn't be denied it on an age basis.

 

Wilson:

My suggestion to you is that before you start making blanket statements about a country that has over 200 million people living in it, with personalities and opinions as diverse as any country, that you simply reconsider what you are saying and how foolish it sounds to those of us who live in this country. Exactly how many times have you visited the United States and how many of those 200+ million people have you met??

 

Kevin - please read my posts thoroughly before criticising, particularly the bit that reads "my impression of some (not all, I hasten to add!) of the American people". Hardly a "blanket statement". For the record, I've never been to the US, but would love to visit. My impression of SOME Americans' way of thinking comes from the American friends I have, (a family of 4 siblings from Maine, the wife of a friend who's Californian, and a few other acquaintances). Some of them don't like the fact that some of their countrymen have a superiority complex, (their choice of words) and all of them are good people.

 

Wilson:

Some of the biggest idiots in the world are from the USA....I hear them on talk radio and see them on the television every now and then....and, unfortunately, they are very vocal and do not, in any way, represent the majority opinion for most Americans. Since, unlike you, I have met more than a total of 10 Americans, let me tell you what Americans are like.

Yes, many Americans are very proud of their country, but many others can be ashamed of their country, its actions and its international policies.

Yes, many Americans are boastful, but many others also have little to say about any other countries since they haven't ever visited other countries to be able to form a valid opinion of what that country, and its people, are really like.

Yes, other countries have certainly contributed to the success of the USA, and I am very appreciative of that. However, we also don't take kindly to those who minimize the positive things that the United States have done for this world since many of our relatives have made the ultimate sacrifice, of their lives, in defending the freedoms of other countries over the past century. My late father was stationed on the USS Pennsylvania in drydock during the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 and witnessed the USS Arizona being blown up and sunk during the attack. When you make statements like "The only people who consider the US to be the greatest country in the world are (some) Americans.", you obviously did not consider the history of the last century.

And regards to technology, why don't you go on the internet and research the technology that has been invented in the USA versus any other country in the world. We had this discussion a few years ago here on Podiatry Arena and it may be instructional for you.

By the way, I am, by ancestry, probably 1/3-1/2 of Scottish descent.:drinks

 

As a rare photograph of McKirby illustrates nicely.....

 

Good one, Mark. The Scottish side is mostly from my mother, a Skeen. I understand there is a Skeen (Skene?) castle in Aberdeen that my relatives can be traced back to......but have yet to have the pleasure to visit this area of Scotland.

 

Indeed there is - a fine example of Scottish Baronial architecture - which is located just outside Lyne of Skene near Aberdeen - an area I know very well. The Skene family graveyard is located nearby at Kirkton of Skene, which I am sure will be of interest too.

 

Should have read the whole thread before commenting..although I'd have run away because some parts of it are frankly scary: obviously feeling have run high.

 

Ah. There are 6 pages of this thread - I read one and thought that was it.
Noob.
Is there a way for me to delete my posts before glaring idiocy is spotted, I wonder? No.... thought not.

 

yes - edit them

 

Ha! thanks Julian.

 

Kevin, I don't know if you've taken my posts in the wrong way, but they certainly weren't meant to offend. In fact I agree with what you said in your last post, I had simply been suggesting that a certain section of the American people seem to believe that everything America does is right, and anyone who disagrees must be wrong. This doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge what the US has contributed, and I've referred to their participation in the two World Wars already as an example of this.
Their's nothing wrong with being proud of your country's achievements though - you'll find that we Scots are proud of ours, and that for all it's faults, most British people are proud of the NHS. This brings me back to the point I originally made, that I believe a healthcare system that excludes those who cannot afford it is wrong in a rich, developed successful country.

 

No worries. Here in the States, we do have those people who seem to know it all and, unfortunately, they do tend to be the vocal minority. In principle, I agree with you that basic healthcare should not be excluded from citizens of our country, but it is just not that simple and is much more complicated than that, as the debates that are occurring in our government are now proving.

By the way, what is your real name, GWILSON?

 

"By the way, what is your real name, GWILSON?"

Oddly enough, it's G. Wilson - I'm not hiding anything, the G is for Gordon!

If we're in agreement that people shouldn't be excluded, what is the position at the moment if you're uninsured and fall ill, especially when you need expensive treatment for a serious illness? If there are shortfalls, what could be done to meet this need without changing the whole system? As I said, I'm not too familiar with the US system, but this thread has got me interested! As an NHS (therefore Government) employee, in my experience when Governments change the system, it costs so much money to fund the changes that there's les left over for actual healthcare - and the next Government will probably change it back again.....

 

Gordon:

Honestly, the negotiations are still going on and it is so complicated and political that I have lost interest in what our new healthcare plan will look like. One thing is that it won't look at all like the NHS, from what I understand. There are systems in place for the seriously ill here in the States without insurance, but it not an easy system to navigate. With any healthcare system, there will be positives and negatives. I'm sure you will be able to read all about the various proposals on the internet, if you have the time and interest.

Merry Christmas.:santa:

 

There is no need for a government in a highly developed free market society to appoint itself as “provider of healthcare coverage.” None, whatsoever. The proposition would be identical to the government taking control of the restaurant and grocery businesses because there are some people who, regrettably, cannot afford to eat. To do so would undermine the market mechanism of distribution, which is quite an effective mechanism.

Thanks.

 

THIS is interesting!!!!!!!! So WHY wasn't this offered in Canada????????????

"ST. JOHN'S, N.L. -- Newfoundland Premier Danny Williams will undergo heart surgery later this week in the United States.

Deputy premier Kathy Dunderdale confirmed the treatment at a news conference Tuesday, but would not reveal the location of the operation or how it would be paid for.

"He has gone to a renowned expert in the procedure that he needs to have done," said Ms. Dunderdale, who will become acting premier while Mr. Williams is away for three to 12 weeks.

"In consultation with his own doctors, he's decided to go that route."

Mr. Williams' decision to leave Canada for the surgery has raised eyebrows over his apparent shunning of Canada's health-care system."