Im not sure what to do

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I really want to go in to Podiatry but not sure whether to do the FHP or Uni Podiatry course.

The thing is, I only have business related qualifications and none to do with science so I cant really do the Undergraduate Podiatrty course.

Maybe I could possibly do the FHP course first then go to University afterwards. But could I get into university with a FHP Diploma?

Giovanna

 

My advice would be to consider what options the two qualifications give you.

With the BSc you can work for the NHS, carry out minor surgery, do biomechanics, dermatology, paediatrics, work in specialist woundcare along side consultants and other specialists and maybe one day upgrade your qualification to full on podiatric surgeon. Or even just work in private practice with "Podiatrist" above your door.

With an Foot health proffessional qualification you can... well you can cut peoples toenails and remove the occasional corn or bit of hard skin. Beleive me that gets really old really fast! A few years of that you'll be ready to fall on your own clippers. You will also have to explain to people that although you are doing Chiropody you are not allowed to call yourself a chiropodist.

Many universities are willing to be flexible in terms of entrance requirements and most offer foundation courses. My advice would be to get the bit of paper you need FIRST rather than work your way through both! IT might also be worth mailing a few universities to see if they would take you with a FHP diploma. MY suspicion is that the answer will be no!

For me the choice is to become either a well respected and recognized member of the clinical team with endless options for proffessional advancement or a fringe practitioner operating at the same sort of level as a beautician but at the less appealing end.

Regards
Robert

 

Well iv decided to do an access course to get into Uni in 08 to do Podiatry

Looking forward to it

 

Correct choice. You won't regret it.

Good luck

Robert

 

By all means I am sure you will do well by going for the degree option, but please do not go away with the jaundiced ignorant view of what FHP's can really do. I have 20 years professional practice in the NHS and private sector (anaesthetics), and one important lesson I am sure you will not overlook is please do not undervalue or run down another profession just because you have more or less certificates etc. than someone else. It's bad business and unprofessional.
I have no doubt a lot of ranting will ensue but frankly.........

 

Im not being funny but all FHP's are trained to do is clean peoples feet.

 

I will send you an email regarding the true situation.

 

Ah yes, the TRUE situation. DO share it with the rest of us. Please. You know you want to, otherwise you would have just sent the e mail and not told us you were doing it! Or is it a secret.

Mind you i agree that to say that FHP's just clean feet is untrue, misleading and derogatory.

By the by unitas do i read your post correctly that you are an anaesthetist?Whats a nice consultant like you doing in a forum like this?

 

It is obvious you have already made up your mind as regards FHP's by your comments above, and I do not intend to waste my time trying to alter your fixed predjudiced views. I would bring to your attention the forum rules regarding not deliberately starting arguments, and innapropriate behaviour.
I have no intention of getting into an argument, so dont bother with the 'squaring up' .

I stand by my comment that to deride another individual in such a way is bad business and unprofessional. This in my opinion is why the NHS is in such dire straits, and does not need any further perpetration by otherwise supposedly educated individuals...

 

Thankyou for bringing the forum rules regarding deliberatly starting arguments and inappropriate behavior. I'm sure if i cross the line a moderator will tweak me. However i would ask you to examine the nature of of a discussion forum. If i hold a view which you don't agree with thats not "starting an argument" and certainly not against the rules. Saying that you disagree with my view but then not giving any reasons why is scarcly discussion. You state that my views are fixed and predujiced, however you have no idea whether my view is fixed or indeed why i hold this view. I notice that you did not offer any specific refutation just a general disagreement.

Oh and i love the "squaring up" image! Made me laugh. I think you may be projecting your reaction to my post onto me. I'm just looking for a discussion. (discussion forum you see).

Good for you. I disagree with this comment for the following reasons. Firstly i did not deride any "individual". Secondly i gave my view on what FHPs are. If you found it derisive thats your perogative but that was not my intention. Thirdly i'm not in business so it being bad business is not a concern to me. Forthly i think that to say that individuals "deriding" one another is the reason the NHS is in dire straights is incorrect. It's possible that factors like finance, management and cultural shifts might be relevant as well. Oh and i loved the supposedly educated snipe . Thats me alright. I read a book once. With pictures and everything!

If you don't want to discuss the issue then by all means don't bother, but whats the point of going on a discussion forum just to say "i don't agree but i'm not going to discuss it because its an argument and i'm not going to waste my time trying to change your view?" Would you only get into a thread if everybody agreed with you? Don't see the point!

Kind regards

Robert
"supposedly educated"

 

Its a funny thing. I was just browsing this old chestnut

http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showthread.php?t=3899&page=1&pp=30&highlight=fhp's

And it struck me how similar they were. In both threads a perceived critism was leveled at FHPs and somebody went straight off on a "i'm not even going to get into this debate" type mood. Why is it that people are so hair trigger on this issue and why is it that instead of explaining why they disagree with a view, specifically and calmly, they get all fired up. Can't we talk about this without it turning nasty and degenerating?

most unfortunate.

Robert

 

anaesthetics, i've always thought that was the game to be in. anybody know of any good correspondence courses i could take....

 

Be nice. His background does'nt mean he does'nt have some good points to make. Assuming he's willing to actually justify what he has said.

 

i do get irritated by the notion that just because you have a qualification in another disipline you can fast track to my disipline. I have 14 years post grad experience, that does not make me almost a physio/OT/dentist/radiographer/nurse etc. should i wish to move into another disipline i suspect i would be met with some hosility if it were akin to a fhp/pod situation.

 

cheer up everybody

 

C'mon Andy, lets not make this personal. Thats why people keep running away from this debate, which is a valid and important one. I'm interested in his view, with which i disagree, and i want to understand why he has it, in case he has a point. This is currently tricky because he is feeling so defensive and won't come play in the road. As irritating as you might find him do him the courtesy of slamming what he says not what he is. T'aint polite.

Don't worry Giovanni. You hang with this forum a while and you find most of us can have a good old ding dong and stay friends. It's all for fun.

Robert

 

ok, my first post was a little cheeky but i had mean't the second to be referring to a situation not an individual, having reread it i can see it was badly worded. the "....just because you have a qualification in another disipline you can fast track to my disipline." should have read "....just because someone has a qualification in another disipline they can fast track to my disipline.".

i apologise if i have caused offence but with this clarification in mind i do stand by my point.

 

Surely in the UK we can all fast-track into various professons if we really want to?
Medicine - I ( and Bill Liggins) know of one pod who fast-tracked onto a Medicine Course because of his/her degree and surgical training.
Law - obtain a 2.1 degree and you can fast-track onto a law degree.
Etc, etc.

I know some FHPs and I know their work.
The FHPs I refer to do a good job within their limitations.

To balance things I suppose I should add that I know of one or two Pods (both PP and NHS) who should not be in our line of work.

 

Dear Robert;
Sorry I irritate you so, but I did read this little gem you wrote a while back:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Must be CX1 poisoning. Or possibly we're P****d off with the steady stream of hatchet jobs we have to fix coming from people who claim to be as well qualified as us following 2 weeks worth of practical training. Just a thought."

Respectfully

Robert
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Who was it perpetrating the "hatchet jobs" you speak of? Did patients come complaining of poor treatment? did you find out who the perpetrators were? How many times did this happen? was it the same person?
Correct my lack of knowledge by all means, but if an individual or group is causing harm to a patient/member of the public, then more organised investigation would be appropriate to prevent further occurence by agreed methods from your governing bodies. Surely it would be remiss NOT to research and action this.....?

Dont have time for a great dissertation on the whole reasons as to why the NHS is in such dire straits, but I made my comment from first hand knowledge of good clinical management leaving meetings in tears, and then long term sickness as a result after derisive offences by chair bound shiny suits and finance managers. Also senior experienced theatre staff being forced to re-apply for their own posts, and then either being downgraded or made redundant to the dire cost of the department in terms of skillmix and experience.

 

Anyone else for Popcorn?

 

My parent isnt very supportive of me going into Podiatry and prefers me to just get a general admin job full time.

Is Uni really that expensive? I heard that the NHS will pay for tuition fees. A part from the cost of accommodation, is their other costs that I should know about?

 

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Glad you came back. You don't irritate me with anything you do say, its when you give a view and won't discuss it i become vexed. Discussion is good for the soul and venting prevents peptic ulcers. It's good for you. Prevents night blindness. Glad you have enjoyed my previous posts.

Won't share the names cos it would be libleous. Yes patients came in complaining of bad treatment. Corns inadequatly debrided so they come back after 2 weeks and truly horrendously butchered ingrowing toenails . Yes i know who the perps are, there are three who are know to us, all Smae's. Don't know of any local smaes who do good work (although i'm sure they do exist. )

Whilst i don't wish to suggest that there has never been a good smae my experiance of them has been universally bad. My concluesion is that two weeks (80 odd hours?) of clinical training is nowhere close to sufficient. (I'm assuming thats what it is cos that question keeps being ignored) I tend to find that most new grads need a lot of bringing up to speed and thats after 1000 hours. If i had my wish they would all have to do at least a year in the NHS with access to more experianced staff and mentoring before being cut loose on their own.

I just can't see how two weeks of training (or whatever it is) before being released to work, Generally without the benifit of clinical mentoring is enough and it seems an obvious correlation with my experiances of the quality of their work.

Well yes an investigation would be appropriate. If only there was some kind of national body to which podiatrists had to belong which regulated the proffession and looked into bad practice. It could be called the Health protection group. Or Health provision council or something like that.

Of course that would'nt work if a group of practitioners gave a different name to the same job they had always done and carried on.

Unregistered means unregulated. Thats another reason i'm not a fan of FHPs.

I'm certain we could both write a lovely essay on the flaws of the NHS but i stand by my statement that expressing distaste for an unregulated group of folk who don't even work for the NHS is not one of them.

Glad to have you here Unitas. Count backwards from ten then tell me what you think.

Regards
Robert

 

I'm a mature 3rd year student at Durham School of Podiatric Medicine, Giovanna. If podiatry has captured your imagination as it does mine then there are ways you can finance it. The NHS pays a bursary to degree students which can help depending on whether you are living with your parents, living alone, etc etc. Contact the Podiatry Staff at the Uni you want to attend, they will help you get through the minefield of information. I've managed to survive and run my house on the bursary, student loan and some savings, so it's not impossible if you really want to do it - many of us have part-time jobs that give us a little more income.
Like you I had no science background, but did the podiatry access course at Durham which gained automatic entry to the degree course.
I firmly believe that Podiatry has enough avenues and branches to support your career choices, whether you want to specialise or stay in general practice - you will find you're particularly interested in one area and it will flow. I also believe that despite the current undervalued status of podiatry, there are ways to build a career if you are focused, determined and professional. Go for it and enjoy every minute!!

 

Re: I'm not sure what to do

Hi Robert and Andy et al

Just been reading this thread and to coin a phrase " I have had all I can stand coz I cant stands nomore"

I'm equally as hacked off by over opinionated butchers that are doing the "job"on the NHS and causing patients pain discomfort and affecting their quality if life through "protocols" that insist their treatments need to be so severe they have to last on a time scale of treatment

I have been in health care for over 40 years and I don't hide behind the NHS political administrative protection of protocols ,meetings , and the rest of the bloody rubbish that you do.

I have seen both sides of the fence as in a former life I worked for GLC & NHS in hands on health care so I understand where you are coming from BUT:-

Then you should get out more coz you have found one now

I will openly challenge my clinical skills to yours any time and frankly I am sickened by both your generalisations with regard to IPP Pods.

I cannot comment on FHP's as I am not aware of the current details of the courses.

I suppose in your cocoon of the NHS it would never have crossed your mind that we need your help in referring high risk patient and conversely could you cope with the influx of pts if we all stopped treating ( you cant now)

.

I can relate to that as I spent many hours in theatre in my former life and still have consultants (friends) that I treat who tell me the same story

We as pods have to work together albeit NHS or IPP.

As an IPP myself ,I want to expand my knowledge and would like to go to my local hospital diabetic clinics and vascular clinics to talk to the likes of YOU

Coz I want to know what YOU want from me so I can work with you jointly for the benefit of the patient.

I have done this on FDUK and got a good response from those interested.

Instead of you both slagging people off, try organising some CPD in your departments for us "lesser mortals" we just need to know

I am perhaps an execption but I tend to agree with that statement unless a mentor is available

Cheers
Derek

ps try going to www.iespell.com

 

Derek

Calm down brother, you'll give yourself a peptic!

I'll certainly do that one for home, thanks for the link. Unfortunatly in the cocoon of the NHS we are not allowed to install stuff on the computers. Hiding behind protocols and suchlike you understand so you'll have to put up with my wrod bilnedenss for now.

I may be being oversensitive but i seemed to detect a degree of anger in your post. A certain amount of vexation. I could be wrong.

That sounds very bad. I refer you to a reply i recieved from unitas

I'm with unitas. Of course if you highlight these problems you will have a proffessional body to appeal to since we are regulated and proffessional standards set centrally to compare your local butchers to. Don't you just love it when the system works?

Andy, quick, find some protocols for us to hide behind. I'm all out! Seriously though, in what way do you think we "hide?"

I like the idea of getting out more. We should get together, go bowling, it would be fun. Assuming you wanted to be seen with "the likes of ME". Seriously i'm not going to go out looking for "good" smaes. I speak from my immediate and first hand experiance.

So far as CPD is concerned i'm not sure it's the job of the NHS to offer free training to other groups (although i've never denyed anyone who asked to shadow me and i never would). Perhaps the training you speak of should have been included in the original syllabus.

I hope you have mellowed a bit by your next post. The internet might run out of smilies. Its all love.



Respectfully
Robert

 

Re: I'm not sure what to do

if this was the case timescales between treatment would be very short indeed, believe me

so that i can be more specific in my generalizations could you please clarify what the difference is between and IPP and an FHP

which of the high risk patients currently seen by the NHS do you feel should be funding their own treatment?

 

Re: I'm not sure what to do

Hi Robert , Andy et al

Robert

Lets call this self treatment then ??

My patients pay for mine so I can install what I like, but I will make allowances.

Yep my patients as with yours have the right to go to the governing body THE HPC if they feel the need

What I mean by that is whenever treatment from the NHS clinics is performed any corrections required to that treatment are carried out by the private sector because the pts cannot get an appointment /want an appointment back at the clinic so you are thinking ALL your treatments are successful when they are not.

Conversely with the same situation from the private sector the pt either returns to the practitioner (coz they have paid for it) or the GP becomes involved and they finish up with yourselves on either side as davidh said there are good and bad on both sides.

My point is why do you keep carping on about bad practice from other pods who are smae trained??

Now thats constructive !! have you thought of letting them know you could help them like that ?? I'm sure if you met with them on that basis a lot of your problems with them could be sorted out.

I would not have a problem being seen out with you at all. Bowling I don't do but if you play golf I would willingly take you to my club for a round and a pint ??

Andy

Now I know you have been bashing around this site for as long as I have so I think you know what an IPP is remembering I am talking about podiatrists here ( I know nothing about FHP's) IPP = Independent Private Practitioner = one that chooses to practice outside the NHS.

Andy I don't make the rules I just work within them BUT I am routinely treating High risk patients because they cannot get the required treatments on the NHS. Not my choice just fact.

But perhaps you can tell us where in your remit / job description its says you are responsible for the patients finances ??

Cheers
Derek

 

Re: I'm not sure what to do

not my experience, the dissatisfied have a knack of burrowing their way back into the cocoon

ok, i shall rephrase, what is the difference between smae trained and an FHP pre-grandparenting? i will admit i know little regarding smae training so am genuinely interested.

 

Hi Andy

I qualified 20 years ago and did every qualification they had on offer.

I have had many conversations ( yes and been seen out) with several SCP pods who have asked the very same questions that come up over and over again.

Once they found out I don't drink blood or eat babies they found most of what they (thought) they knew was based on folklore and fiction.

So Andy I am not going to open up the "them and us" thing it has been done to death I'm fed up with it and I expect so is everyone else.

I have run this one on John McCall's FDUK site about being unable to refer high risk patients to specialist departments I explained the problems I ( as an IPP) had referring pts when the GP didn't want to know.

The response I got from the pods there was positive and constructive and has hopefully started a move toward integration of skills and treatments between the specialist units and IPP's.

Have you thought about in your situation writing to the people you are so concerned about and offering to speak to them or as with Robert letting them shadow you ??

Don't let your concerns be the best kept secret if you don't tell THEM they will never know and this problem will never go away.

Cheers
Derek

 

If you say so. I worry about adding to the amount of anger in the world though.

An interesting though tautological argument. You contend that we think we do well because our problems go elsewhere whereas yours come back to you. It could equally be contended that your dissatisfied patients will vote with their feet and go elsewhere whereas ours, if they cannot afford private care HAVE to come back to us. Neither view is substantiated.

Because based on my (admittedly small, N = 3) sample size and how much podiatry i learnt in my first year (much less 2 weeks) of practical training i do not feel that the FHP course is sufficient to train people to do podiatry. I'm sure that two weeks training plus 20 years of practical experiance will get you there but i'm not sure i'd want to be one of the people used for practice.

And actually This thread started with "whats the best qualification to do." The only reason i started Carping was because somebody found a quote from another thread and asked me to justify it! I'll stop.

I'm sure you don't really eat babies and drink blood. Thats NHS managers. Its a funny thing, the last time i went there for a meeting the tea tasted funny then the next think i remember was 4 hours later and i was slumped in my car with a painful neck. A subsequent trip to the doctor revealed aneamia....

 

Hi Robert

I would imagine about the same as I learned in MY first year

You see that is why there is so much anger in the world.

It occurs when the ill informed start talking rubbish.

Where does the 2 weeks training come into anything ??

20 years ago Diploma was the level required for either side I seem to remember that after completion of the basic 2 part course and passing of the exams we had 100 hours in clinic under supervision. You then had the option to go on to further courses.

Your side I think did 350 hours ACTUAL clinical tuition during the 3 year course.

I never noticed any crutches or walking sticks handed out when I trained or since but yes it has got me there very successfully thank you.

There you go Robert your imagination again, perhaps you have a peptic ulcer thats bleeding ??

Cheers

Derek

 

I stand corrected. I did indeed write without researching my subject fully. I have now checked the website and can speak more fully.

THe Smae Course as it stands now involves 100 hours "practical" training. The prospectus does not say how long this is in weeks, assuming a standard working week that would make it between 2 and 3 by my reckoning. How long is the 100 hours spread out over?

Of course this is not all patient contact,

so we are not talking 100 hours of actual clinical practice here. We are talking 100 hours supervised learning.

The home study element part recommends 12 months to complete at your own pace.

And as you say you have the option to do extra courses for cryo, biomx and the like.

I cannot speak with authority for what "my side" did then but it now involves 1000 hours of time IN CLINIC. Actual patient contact time. Lectures and video presentation type learning separatly on top of that. If you counted lectures, videos and suchlike in the Degree course as "practical training" i suspect you could double the 1000 hours easily. And I still tend to find that following this new graduates are still somewhat dangerous with sharp things!

Is this an accurate reflection? Or am i still ill informed.

LOL, Very sharp.

Have no fear. My naturally cheery outlook gives me a thick layer of insulation from anger and stress. So far as i know my stomach lining is in fine shape. Besides my benevolant employer on seeing the unhappiness caused by the last round of redundancies and job evaluations acted with their usual acute grasp of the requirements of their employees and sent around a leaflet advising staff on managing stress. So i'm set for a few years.

Regards
Robert

 

Robert
Please read the post properly

I take you research as correct because I don't know

The degree is now the required entry level wherever you train so why keep bringing up old predudices (however ill informed) about smae trained pods?

The FHP question will rage on and as was posted earlier with the new teaching establishment springing up who knows where it will lead but the fact is the function is not closed so........

I sympathise with you. That is one problem

 

Robert
Please read the post properly

I take you research as correct because I don't know

The degree is now the required entry level wherever you train so why keep bringing up old prejudices (however ill informed) about smae trained pods?

The FHP question will rage on and as was posted earlier with the new teaching establishment springing up who knows where it will lead but the fact is the function is not closed so........

I sympathise with you. That is one problem I don't have being self employed

Cheers
Derek

 

Hmm. At what point to opinions become prejudices?

Entry level. I guess thats the rub is'nt it. Entry level to what? Certainly to the title of podiatrist and to the nhs, and that is meet and wholesome. The bit which still disturbs me is that people like giovanni can do their 100 hours (minus lectures and videos) of clinical training and then start doing essentially the same job in the private sector. I don't think that is enough training, not by a long chalk. However i think we've established where we stand on this one. I don't think the smae course (alone) is sufficient to train people to practice podiatry by whatever name you call it. You do. Shall we leave it there? Its in danger of getting repetative.

Thanks for the sympathy BTW. I could write a book on the random acts of management i've had to endure over the years. But nobody would beleive it! The leaflet was a goody. We also (the survivors that is) got a certificate for "keeping the show on the road". There was supposed to be a big presentation with the cheif exec and a photographer but nobody would dignify the charade by going. The biggest problem was tearing the certificate into enough bits for all of us to wipe with...

Wanna work in the NHS. Get a sense of humour about it or have a major psychotic episode.

Regards
Robert

 

Hi Robert

When they are repeated over and over by ill informed bigots (yes the smilies are back)

Yep the HPC and everyone else has excepted the fact I am here, and on an equal level to you

I don't know if the FHP course is as you say "100 hours minus lectures and videos"

I never said that, you did

Yes then leave it there but I hope your bigoted ill informed remarks on this forum re smae PODS will also cease.

Get over yourself !! I have been here for a long time and I ain't goin nowhere

Now on this part you have my sympathy AND admiration In my former life, I KNOW THE FEELING

Keep it up

Cheers fella
Derek




I might even get a job in the NHS working with you

 

LOL

Oooo i've been promoted from ill informed to ill informed BIGOT. My mum will be so proud. Any other names you want to call me? I took the liberty of putting bigot into a theasaurus for you:-

bug, crank, diehard, doctrinaire, dogmatist, enthusiast, extremist, fanatic, fideist, fiend, flag-waver, freak, jingoist, maniac, monomaniac, mule, no-neck, nut, opinionated person, partisan, persecutor, pig, puritan, racist, red-neck, relisher, sectarian, segregationist, sexist person, stickler, superpatriot, zealot

Would you like to highlight the ones you think apply or shall i assume you think i'm all of them. I had to look a few of them up. Did'nt know what a fideist was. Also i'm not sure that "sexist person" belongs in the list. I'll hold my hands up to enthusiast, opinionated person and, occasionally, nut.

Highly doubtful. But hold onto your hopes. They're all any of us have. As long as the situation exists i shall have an opinion on it and i'm afraid i won't stay quiet on the subject for fear of upseting you WHATEVER name you call me. My view is neither ill informed nor unsupported and will continue to be my view unless somebody convinces me otherwise. Which BTW calling me an ill informed bigot is unlikely to acheive, wound me though it may.

But i've got nothing but love for you and i am certain you will stick around and further enrich the proffession for a good few years yet.

Kindest regards

Robert

(hey can i add IIB to the letters after my name?)

 

Robert

I sincerely hope so

With your imagination who could stop you

But please remember one thing for the future :-

There is only ONE "F in" Professional,

And your talking to him

Be Lucky
Cheers
Derek