Joining SOCAP

I'm sure he would be, if he could work out how to join

Best wishes,
Simon

 

Just give him your access details then if he abuses it change your password.

Think of it as a months free trial, who knows he may have some constructive comments to make about the proposed new Web site and the 'members forum with in it'.

As you say the Society has it's good and bad points, at the moment I would think all staff are concentrating on the Conference.

Bob

 

Hi all,

Interesting reading. I only looked at this thread because I wanted to find out what SOCAP meant.

Good to see the English Pods defending their own society.

I worked in England for over 2 years up until recently with the one NHS Trust and I did get to know podiatrists from other Trusts so I feel I have a reasonably idea of UK podiatry. I must say, within Australia, there are preconceived ideas about the profession in the UK which in some cases are wrong but in some cases right.

I know the original thread was about SCP but it's now seems to be more about the profession itself.

I really enjoyed my time in England and I did learn alot.

If I was asked for a couple of observations as an outsider coming into the system they would be(I hope I don't come across as being too negative):

There is a big gap between your best podiatrists and your worst. In Australia our lowest baseline seems to be higher. The NHS seems to have training available but there does seem to be a lot of podiatrists very willing to coast along and not update their skills. Some of these people are older podiatrists but also recent graduates.


The UK does seem to be gaining ground within the surgery area. I do wonder about the biomechanical knowledge of some of the UK surgeons being trained though. I'm not sure you can be a podiatric surgeon and know very little about biomechanics. A bit scarey!!

NHS Podiatry has bred a system of hierachey where to manage an area is seen to be more important than improving your clinical skills. Because Podiatry Departments are so large there is opportunities for middle managers to boss other podiatrists around. Unfortunately some of these managers are not up to it clinically and therefore the department stagnates but the politics can be quite unbelievable.

Cortisone injections seem to be wielded unnecessarilly without accurate diagnosis and attention paid to lower limb biomechanics.

Biomechanic assessment and knowledge should underpin everything but it is still seen as a specialty in the UK. It's not a specialty.

New graduates(depending on where they studied) have very little knowledge of biomechanics. This may sound harsh but I'm just being honest. Put it this way. It's hard to teach final year students who are on placement about biomechanics if they have covered very little theory biomechanics.

As far as SCP goes. I was a member but I can't comment on them too much. I attended courses and training and they were well run. I would probably have needed to have been there longer for more of an opinion.


Just some thoughts,

Podtiger

 

Well done Craig, you seem to have opened a fair old can of worms here with one simple question !

One of the liveliest if not aggressive threads I think I have seen on here. I hope all the cobwebs are now blown away.

Nick

 

Podtiger,

IMO a very enlightening and balanced post.

I know nothing about the health care system i Australia, nor the means by which Podiatry education is funded.

In the main I think your comments about the NHS and the Society are fair. However the area you do not seem to have experienced was private practice.

Of the 12500 registered practitioners in the UK, registered meaning the are entitled to call themselves Podiatrists or Chiropodist and to use the words podiatry and chiropody, about 4,500 work in the NHS or education. Of the 8000 remaining about 50% will have been diploma/degree educated in podiatric medicine the other half having done correspondence courses with limited supervised clinical experience.

There is very limited interaction between the NHS and private practice.

Under the original regulator 'the council for professions supplementary to medicine' the Society had significant input into the education of chiropodists, but when the government changed the regulator they gave the responsibility of education to the QAA.

The Health Professions Council HPC became the new regulator believing the public would be protected by protecting titles but not functions. This process also involved a period of grandparenting which gave access to regulation for the formerly unregulated.

University places are now commissioned and paid for by the Strategic Health Authority a tier of NHS governance so they call the tune.

The final factor in this equation is that the UK profession does not speak with one voice, registrants are represented by at least 4 bodies, all competing for power.

Given this eclectic mix is there any wonder the UK profession has not moved forward?

In 1967 there were 4530 registered chiropodists and 9171 physios, in April 2009 there were 12581 chiropodists (down for an all time high of over 13,000 after the first audit) and 42,676 physios.

Where did we go wrong?

A starer for 10 Kitos and no aggression, but lots of worms.

Bob Golding

 

Bob,

>>A starer for 10 Kitos and no aggression, but lots of worms.<<

Gosh seemed an awful lot like aggression or temper tantrums to me.

In the good old Compuserve days it was known as 'flaming' and disallowed.

Nick

 

Nick,

I fail to see how imparting information can be described as 'aggression' or a temper tantrum.

If you disagree with any aspect of what I wrote feel free to add your own take, I thought that was what discussion groups were for?

Bob Golding

What were the 'good old Compuserve days'?

 

Bob,

Oh dear seems like I am now being drawn into something that I have no intention of getting involved in!

>>I fail to see how imparting information can be described as 'aggression' or a temper tantrum. <<

I refer to the language used in some of the replies and as an independent reader I am entitled to take inference from that language.

Forgive me for I am probably relying on my own experiences as a retired front line police officer of over 25 years who was more than used to hearing and dealing with Friday night spatts where teddies were regularly thrown out of the pram.

Yes I expect that they too were imparting information with each other and saying that each other was not big enough blah blah blah.

>>Compuserve<< A long while ago but the fore runner of a number of forums with sub forums. A more gentile approach to discussion and information ~ rather like this forum normally is.

I shall now endeavour to withdraw from this thread and go look at more professionally interesting discussion.

Nick

 

R.E.G.

It's been great reading this discussion.

I agree with you my thoughts could only be attributed to the NHS Podiatry. I only had limited access to the private sector. I knew the podiatry scene was complicated there but this just confirms it.

It was actually quite cleansing to write that post as working within the NHS felt like I was in a bubble sometimes. Sometimes only as an outsider are you able to make comparisons. A lot of NHS podiatrists who I worked with weren't malleable to new ideas or systems.
What seemed to be the consuming passion was reducing waiting lists and seeing patients every 20 minutes. This is important but the big picture was a little fuzzy.

When you're seeing so many patients in such a short space of time the capacity to learn and develop is not available. It's also hard to offer a quality service. I believe this has strangled a few podiatry UK careers.

But as I was told that's just the way we do things here.

On the flip side there are many motivated people who are keen to progress their clinical skills. I think if you work at the wrong Trust it is easy to get stuck though.

Working in Australia is by no means perfect but I think our better balance between the public and private sector and our quality University courses keeps things moving in the right direction.

Podtiger

 

Oh dear seems like I am now being drawn into something that I have no intention of getting involved in!

Your choice nothing to do with me.

>>I fail to see how imparting information can be described as 'aggression' or a temper tantrum. <<

I refer to the language used in some of the replies and as an independent reader I am entitled to take inference from that language.


Not too sure what an independent reader is, let6s guess, no a member of any representative body? Snap I too am an independent poster.

Forgive me for I am probably relying on my own experiences as a retired front line police officer of over 25 years who was more than used to hearing and dealing with Friday night spatts where teddies were regularly thrown out of the pram.

Yes I expect that they too were imparting information with each other and saying that each other was not big enough blah blah blah.

Nick

>>Compuserve<< A long while ago but the fore runner of a number of forums with sub forums. A more gentile approach to discussion and information ~ rather like this forum normally is.

I shall now endeavour to withdraw from this thread and go look at more professionally interesting discussion.

Nick Kitos or whoever you are you do not come up on any of the registers.

I have been patronized by far more articulate/literate plods than you. The Devon and Cornwall traffic police set the standard, especially those in Devon.

I have also seen local police give in to teenage scroats because they were not bright enough to argue with them.

So who were your trainers, nice being anon is it not?

Is this 'flaming'?

Bob Golding, a non speeder.
__________________

 

Podtiger,

Sorry about the sub threads, I'm actually interested in your experiences.

Perhaps you could start a new thread where a polite discussion about the similarities and differences between the UK and Australia are explored.

The same could be done for UK USA and Australia USA.

For starters where do Pod surgeons fit in the Oz scene, and does Oz have a different demographics to the UK?

Bob Golding

 

Say what??
You're having a laugh, surely as they've done nothing of the sort and have no power to do anything about the thousands of "Foot Health Professionals" advertising under the chiropody/podiatry sections of the yellow pages, local newspapers etc etc.
Good grief: if you're an active member you're a remarkably ill informed one.

 

Charlie70,

hey way off thread but excellent.

Craig where are you? Is it the time difference or is it cultural.

Bob golding

 

Finally:

 

Cannot say fairer than that?

Ask Simon for access?

Or are you determined to show the SCP in a bad light?

Bob Golding non SCP member.

 

REG

You really are a strange individual aren't you? OK you are in Cornwall but needs must and that cannot always be the excuse.

>>Oh dear seems like I am now being drawn into something that I have no intention of getting involved in!

Your choice nothing to do with me.<<

Check it out Reggie. You replied to my answer to Craig and dangled a carrot by negating my thoughts.

>>I refer to the language used in some of the replies and as an independent reader I am entitled to take inference from that language.


Not too sure what an independent reader is, let6s guess, no a member of any representative body? Snap I too am an independent poster.<<

Hey quit the anger or at least spell check before you hit 'send' then we might all be able to understand what you are saying...........

or maybe not......................

I am representative of the SCP, REG. I am a member. I am a member of this forum. I am a member of a number of other organisations that probably wouldn't interest you.

And your point is??? No don't tell me I am already losing interest.

>>Nick Kitos or whoever you are you do not come up on any of the registers.<<

Hello R.E.G my name is NICK ...it's easy to tell that cos it's at the bottom of every post I make. My nom de plum (I'll make it easy for you...that means nick name on here) is Kitos, which under forum rules I am able to use on here just as you use R.E.G.

I am registered on here which is why I can post on here. I am also registered with Google which is why I show numerous hits and you don't really show any do you R.E.G? Maybe you don't have to...Bravo to you.

Anyway..... your point is???

>>I have been patronized by far more articulate/literate plods than you. <<

Bless you that is really nice of you to say that I am literate and articulate!!!

But you need to go with flow REG and remember what you have read. I am a RETIRED officer REG.

Mmm patronised?? Have you checked your shoulders recently REG. Do you have a large oak tree on each one?

>>The Devon and Cornwall traffic police set the standard, especially those in Devon.<<

Well they would, wouldn't they cos they are in Devon???

What standard?? What are you talking about? Trust me D&C Constabulary don't even feature on the map when it comes to policing and especially traffic. The A38/30 are NOT the M25 or any other major trunk road commpared to most of the UK.

Oh and BTW traffic don't set standards....they may think they do but the Chief Constable sets the standards along with the Police Authority.

Plus you presume yet again! Actually I wasn't traffic and I wasn't in D&C ( I was in a proper Police Force) ad I was in front line policing for my entire service. (how many murderers and rapists have you come into contact with REG?)

>>Bob Golding, a non speeder.<<

Hey aren't you the one without original sin?

>>I have also seen local police give in to teenage scroats because they were not bright enough to argue with them. <<

Again your point is?? Reggie you really do need to get a life. You need to stop presuming things cos it is seriously going to effect your life. I'll bet you are getting hypertension just from reading this.

What has 'bright' got to do with it? Come on do you need a degree to cut toe nails?

Right OK let me ask you another question. How often have you stood toe to toe or face to face with 'scroats' (age preferably over 16 so that they are capable of pulverising your face into the pavement)? Do you even know what a scroat is (or been watching too much of the Bill - that's not real life REG)

Have you used your intelligence to do such a thing?

OMG I have just thought...you aren't a CPSO are you? Or a Special who at least might be useful and has some powers other than consume chocolate biscuits and write in the local press about how wonderful they aren't?

Of course you are in Newquay ~ the epicentre of the world.

Try dealing with 12 yr olds mainlining heroin who carry razor blades in toothbrushes and are prepared to take your face off - or teenagers who give birth to babies on the loo.

Do NOT dare to preach to me about what some police officers face and deal with. I have been there, done it and have the T shirt.

You presume too much Sir

>>So who were your trainers, nice being anon is it not?<<

REG get a grip.

For the last time my name is NICK not anon.

My trainers are kind of personal but I prefer Asics. Nike are so passe don't you find? Plus they have put great big chunks of metal in some of their shoes which has caused my patients no end of problems and given me endless hours of fun and brought in quite a good stream of patients for me to treat.

However maybe I am being obtuse?

Trainers?? Ok do I need one? I am potty trained. I can walk. I don't dribble. I can speak quite well in public.

How about you?

Nick

 

Well done everyone!
Podiatryarena at its best. You're right Kitshos. No more cobwebs now!

 

In part, SCP is partially credited with increasing the volume of sales for one of my customers by at least 50% in the past two days, thanks to their annual conference. I don't think my customer (booth 97) has any complaints. I have no doubt that as a result of their conference, I'll be building at least 20 scanners so I'm good with SCP as a non member. In terms of the banter, well, it started with a simple request for how to contact the group, and I had recently accessed their site and thought how odd that was, and how little discussion their was of the conference. I suppose it's like the space shuttle. After the first 49 missions it seemed like old hat.

 

Nick,

AKA Kitos

Farmer

Qualified Plymouth University 2007.

Well done.

Now we both know who we are, perhaps we could return to being civil.

In the meantime perhaps you would like to share your access details with Craig to help him out of his dilemma?

Bob Golding

 

Hi Podtiger

Thank you

Take care
Nick

 

Bob,

Thank you. No problem.

Nick

 

Craig

I am sorry you feel it your role to criticise the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists so publicly.

It is only two years ago you were welcomed as guest speaker at the Harrogate Conference 2007. You were respected, supported, hopefully well entertained and found the British hospitality acceptable.

Perhaps you do not realise it but the very small staff that we as members fund via our membership fees have yet again pulled off another magnificent conference in the spa town of Harrogate. Over 1300 delegates and almost 90 trade stands (Trade filled to capacity in a major economic recession and supported well by delegates). Perhaps this distracted from an immediate response to your email? Forgivable perhaps given November is not a traditional time for recruiting members.

I feel protective of the staff in Finance and Establishment who are responsible for the recruitment and retention of members, particularly the member of staff who took time to communicate with you. That one staff member will not tell their side of the story publicly as Craig, they are far too professional but believe you me it is very different to the way you tell it. Maybe understandably they thought you were going to attend the conference and a face to face meeting would have been beneficial to all. After all you did communicate in the run up to the conference, you did indicate that you do attend many international conferences and you were our guest at the last Harrogate Conference.

I feel professional shame that you did not approach SCP's Chief Executive Officer if you were not happy with the service you received from our Finance and Establishment Department. Instead you chose a public forum, your own forum to carry out this assassination.

There are ways of international diplomacy in the field of Podiatric Medicine. Your approach has failed to gain any respect from me and many, many of my colleagues.

Yours disappointedly,

George Brandy

 

I would have thought that if anyone makes an inquiry about joining any organisation and wanting to become a member, then the organisation would treat that with high priority and give timely and sensible responses. Some membership based organisations seem to have misplaced priorities.

Craig may have created an international diplomatic incidence over this, but gauging by the reponses in this thread, a can of worms has been opened that the SCP needs to address.

 

William

If you had an issue with a professional body in Australia would you then post on an international forum you owned or approach the person who is the head honcho of that body to try and resolve the situation?

I would respect Craig more had he had issue with my CEO rather than an extremely hard working and loyal member of the SCP secretariat who gives us members 100%.

GB

 

As tough as criticism is to take, it might also provide enlightenment as to why the group membership has dwindled, if I read another post in this thread correctly.

Here's my experience in terms of my own customer base. It doesn't matter that I have 20+ tasks on my platter. The morsel they want is the one that matters. Of course my group is significantly smaller, for the moment, and the working relationships are still somewhat personal. Add 100+ more members, and it changes.

 

Mr Jared

Membership of the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists has not dwindled. This is incorrect information. Membership in 2009 has increased.

Constructive criticism is always useful in any organisation. I fail to appreciate that Craig Payne's approach has been constructive. He has neither posted his email to the Society in its entirety nor has he posted the response, just his own abbreviated version.

As Craig appears to have been informed, the SCP Council meets at the end of November when it will agree its subscription rates for all members and the officer responsible for recruitment will send him further details then.

As I said in an earlier post, if Craig has issues with the way his enquiry has been handled then an email to the Chief Executive Officer would have been a far more constructive method of resolving his dissatisfaction. It is not too late for him to take route and I would suggest he does.

GB

 

Fair enough. I misread that then.

Going back to the original post, I have to wonder if you could appreciate the commute between Australia and England. To me, it seemed more like a humorous response to the impracticality of just hopping on a bus and swinging by Harrogate for a piece of paper that could have been emailed, filled out, scanned, and emailed or faxed back. Where it went from there involved earth dwellers and a tin can. So... \/\/hateva

 

I Must also agree as a podiatrist leaving the UK to work in Oz I have been subjected to the same process of the no response e mails on Assoc websites of UK qualifications not being accepted after a process of approval by three bodies Apod C + state registation board+ state association by virtue of a mismatch of regulation between states associations and state legislation ( which one would argue that these are all different). The rules are so complex that even those bodies fail to understand whose regulating what.
I do share of course your concerns, bu its not only SOCAP that represent us so badly.

 

I Must also agree, as a podiatrist leaving the UK to work in Oz I too have been subjected to the same process you describe. The no response e mails on Assoc websites, of UK qualifications not being accepted after a process of approval by three bodies A pod C + state registation board+ state association by virtue of a mismatch of regulation between state associations and state legislation ( which o are all different). The rules are so complex that even those bodies fail to understand whose regulating what or who.
I do share of course your concerns, but its not only SOCAP that represent us so badly.

 

Overseas members of the SCP can opt for membership without insurance now, for the princely sum of 125 British Pounds per annum (sorry don't have the pound sign on my keyboard).

This is a new option, fresh for 2010; and members who choose this type of membership will receive all of the usual SCP services minus insurance.

Not sure how you go joining if you don't have HPC registration - I'm sure someone at Fishmongers (sorry Fellmongers) Path would tell if you asked (assuming you can find their contact details).

SCP is far from perfect, but how many Podiatry Organisations are?!

Sarah