Kirby Singing a New Song

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A recent issue of Podiatry Management Online found Dr. Kirby singing a new song that rings very true to a thread that I started on this forum entitled Barefoot Running = Forefoot Striking that was shut down by Dr. Payne (and later reinstated on whim) for what I will always consider nothing more than personal bias.

Dr. Kirby has gone from being the barefoot monster podiatrist to someone with a metaporhosized spin conforming to a paradigm that he swore was faddish and guaranteed would disappear (I have the quotes) and now (mark my words) he will become a proponent and profiteer of.

Dr. Kirby states:
“Barefoot running is the wrong issue, says Kevin Kirby, a Sacramento, CA sports podiatrist. The question is whether you run with a barefoot style – very lightly and gently. When you don’t have all that cushioning under your heel, you’re forced to run differently.

“Normally, people collide into the ground; their heel strikes with a force equivalent to a hammer hitting you on the heel with two to three times your body weight. When you run in a barefoot style, there’s more of a midfoot strike or a forefoot strike. If you take off your shoes and run down the street, you will automatically change the way you run. Running in a less impactful way might help some avoid certain injuries, but no one has done that study,” said Kirby.

What will that do for the validity and clinical importance of the "expansive evidence" always quoted based on heel contact gait?
What will that do to the use of valgus wedges for medial knee pain?
What will it do to the import and viability of using the subtalar joint axis to diagnose and treat foot and postural problems?
How does the Kirby Skive work in this gait that doesn't hammer the heel?
What''s taking so long to develop MALRE and FALRE and DALRE?

Is Kevin starting to realize that exactly what he meanly wished for me on these very pages may be his fate and not mine unless he changes his tune? Could it be that history will reveal HIM to be the "wanna be" that was eventually proven to be passion and faith based rather than scientific if his legacy remains staunchly rearfoot oriented?

Next thing you know, there will be some Bionewtonian decree calling for the need to foot type all feet to determine which will fare well in this lighter strike movement and how that will focus treatment, foot type specific.

I'm waiting for Kevin to discuss the value of vaulting, rearfoot cast correction, plantar plate correction and the use of minimalistic foot wear for children's feet and those with familial foot type specific pathology before becoming symptomatic for prevention, performance enhancement and improved quality of life.

Someone might even breach the subject of motor control or manual therapy.

The Arena continues to be mean and downright biased against any posting I make but its pages will serve as the documentation of whose Art and Science made sense and had applicability in practice.

Dr Sha

PS: Watch for Kevin's future comments on Rocker Bottom Shoes and other profitable subjects as the tide turns.

 

I assume that this is mostly because you launch personal attacks and not deal with the issues. You get atatcked back becasue of the way you go a bout it. Even the name of this thread is an attack on Kevin KIrby and not on the concept or what was written. I am surprised that the Admin and Mods have not deleted more of your posts or censored them.

I read what Kevin was quoted as saying in PM News and laughed. I assume the comments reported were selective and taken out of context by the reporter and further taken out of the original context by PM News.

You have started this thread accusing Kevin of something that may or may not have been quoted correctly by the reporter.

 

I pasted the quote directly from PM News.

That remains my only source.

Dr Sha

 

Here is what the article did say:

I will send a note to Barry Block to see that his misquote on PM News is corrected. As far as Dennis Shavelson's accusations regarding me are concerned......my wife and I had a good laugh upon reading them on our drive home from our vacation weekend.

 

Does that mean an apology will be forthcoming from Dr Sha from what was an inflammatory post?

 

It is apparently difficult for some to weigh others contributions without resting their fingers on the scales. It's innocence when it charms us, ignorance when it doesn't.

It may well be that DrSha’s actions were well-intentioned. It is not enough to be well-intentioned; he must strive to put those intentions into action in a capable way and consider the effect his actions will have on others.

I have never had the pleasure of meeting with Dr Kirby but have studied his work with great interest and personal benefit. DrSha’s implicit assault on a true and respected scientist speaks volumes of his ignorance of the journalistic interpretation of medical issues. Furthermore, the modern editorial process of scientific reporting can often leave a great deal to be desired.

May I suggest that an awareness of his ignorance would be a great first step to improving his contributions to this forum?

 

Well said, Greg. Dennis's ingnorance and close proximity of mouth and asshole have been noted before. Perhaps the fistula really is intractible.

 

Dr. Sha,

Thoughtful commentators, like Dr. Kirby, Utilize the best evidence and theory available to stimulate discussion and research. Kevin has given us his "researched" thoughts and Therories on Barefoot Foot Running and the reasonable analysis that for "some", this may not be detrimental.

However, you have not provided any reasonable or researched discussion. You also fail to see that while many people run, we ALL walk, Heel toe, for the majority of our lives. Hence the therories of rearfoot and sub talar control, some of which I agree with and some of which I don't.

So thankyou Kevin for your thoughts on Barefoot Running. It allows us clinicians some development in our discussions with clients on this issue.

You's Dr.Sha, does not.

Regards

 

The Babel of Shinar (BS) (Genesis 11:1-11): a tower built by Noah''s descendants (probably in Babylon) who intended it to reach up to heaven; God foiled them by confusing their language so they could no longer understand one another.

BS is therefore known as something that causes a confusion of voices and other sounds. The city and tower in the land of Shinar, where the confusion of languages took place.

Also... A recently adopted term of endearment for Arena posters suffering from a similar acute malady. e.g. He/She suffers from BS syndrome. Highly debilitating; restricts personal growth.

The first step in eradicating BS is to figure out what it is in order to prevent contamination and spread.

BS is an act of...

(a.) Misrepresentation. There is an attempt to deceive. Unlike a lie, however, there is no attempt to deliberately claim something that isn’t true, strictly speaking. Someone who spouts forth BS isn’t much concerned about whether or not a claim is true or false. Thus, BS is...

(b.) Phony. It is “unconnected with a concern for the truth.” Liars know they are saying something false. BS’ers can’t be bothered to find out. They are not malicious. They are cavalier. For this reason, lying is usually seen as more immoral than BS’ing. BS is able to work its magic because it...

(c.) Distracts. When someone BS’s, they don’t just say something phony, they do so in an extravagant way that is difficult to pin down precisely. To do this, BS’ers employ cliché, exaggeration, pretentiousness, bombast, figurative language and word play.

If Science (as advocated by Dr Kirby's approach) is the reasoned application of doubt; BS is the vigorous removal of any.

 

Quote of the year!

Dennis you seriously need to take a step back and reconsider your ad hominem attacks on Kevin and approach with the rest of the biomechanics community. You are making yourself look very foolish and small with this line of vitriol. Your latest affront borders on libel.

 

Dennis, we can't discuss the value of vaulting because you can't even define the term. We can go back and look at the previous threads where when I asked you to define your terms you just got combative. If you want people to understand what you are trying to say you have to explain it better.

One problem that occurs when there are competing paradigms is that adherents to one paradigm can't understand what the proponents of the other paradigms are saying because they can only see things through the "lens" of their own paradigm. To get me out of my paradigm you are either going to have to: convince me that basic engineering principles are wrong; convince me that my interpretation of basic engineering principles are wrong; or that your ideas make sense in terms of basic engineering principles. I was trying to convert your ideas into basic engineering as applied to the anatomy of the foot. When I did that you failed to connect the orthotic to the anatomy of the foot. Until you can do any of those things I will continue to think your concept of vaulting makes no sense.

Dennis, it's not personal. You are just trying to convince us of something that is outside our world view. Of course, we are never going to agree with you. If you want to persist in getting us to believe in your system, for me, you should explain how your system works and not attack people who believe something different than you.

Eric

 

I so agree.

I have stopped trying to pry you away from your paradigm for a long time.

I continue to take the time to leave my paradigm and inspect yours and others and have added valuable information, teaching points and gained great insight as I visit your admitted incestuous den (by this very quote) that have made my work better.

I believe that it is your loss that you view the rest of the biomechanical world through an engineering lens because there is so much vital clinical application of other paradigms that you have not only ignored but try to dilute and dissolve with your bias and bullying.

Kevin and I both proactively have chosen the limelight, a place where distortion, misquoting, misunderstanding and polorization cannot be avoided. The Arena, in its reaction to my intergrative, preventive, performance enhancing and quality of life elevating biomechanical goals has done all of the things to me that you claim I have done to him. and we both continue to choose the limelight.

The Arena is akin to the Supreme Court in the US, where many judges lose contact with the real world that they commited to protect and serve peeking down from their Ivory Towers.

Your evidence is weak, low level, possibly invalid and strongly biased and therefore has little clinical applicability to EBP. It has lead to very little that is applicable to an organized, everyday, teachable approach to biomechanics. You are blinded by socialistic economic handcuffs and years of propaganda and isolation as you have insulated yourselves behind a wall of your definition of science at the cost of being artisans and practitioners and you are angered by those not interested in joining your paradigm..

You cannot even get a consensus on what an orthotic is so that you can research it and much of your evidence cannot meet the criteria of error because of the huge variation that lives in the pedal subjects you are testing.

I can understand your need to avoid inspecting other paradigms unbiased. What is sad is that you cannot.

Dr Sha

 

More, more, more, more.......

 

Wow this Drsha guy is something else. I used to wonder why at uni we had to do this stupid 'interpersonal skills' paper and now i know! I still cant believe after all thats been said you thought it a good idea to make that reply to efuller.
What goes on up in there?

Nick

 

Dr Sha, please don't place yourself in the same category as Dr Kevin Kirby. Shame on you for your self promotion, sincerely,
Paul.

 

So your purpose in starting this thread was...? Prying others away from our paradigm? If you want to change the paradigm you have to propose something better while showing us the faults in our paradigm.

Dennis, you can go back and look at some of the original threads. I did try examining your paradigm. You couldn't even explain what a vault was. How do you expect us to understand your concepts if you cannot even explain what they are. Start with the anatomy.

Dennis, what's wrong with looking through engineering lens?

Could you give an example of what I'm missing/ignoring by looking through the engineering lens?

You are truly sensitive if you think the above is bullying.

How do you dilute a paradigm?

How do you dilute a paradigm that you have ignored?

Dennis, do you refer potential clients to this website to show how valid your ideas are. Do you want potential customers reading what you and others have written?

Eric

 

How can you tell that Dr. Barry Block deserves our respect and is a man of honor when he made an inadvertant error when publishing his PM News e-mail newsletter, attributing Dan Lieberman's qoute to myself?? He immediately made an apology about his error in the August 10, 2011, PM News:

There is a very good lesson that all of us can learn from Dr. Block's example. If you do make an error that can potentially harm or hurt one of your colleagues, be quick to acknowledge your error and apologize publicly or privately to your colleague. This will demonstrate your integrity and ethical nature as a physician and you will keep the respect of others by admitting your error. It is really nothing more than common professional courtesy, which unfortunately, is not that common.

 

If we all were to really look at what Kevin and Dennis are saying and take the personalities away, I am sure there is value that each can contribute.

I have been fortunate to have interview both of them on my show Meet the Masters and each of you can listen to these interviews for FREE, as well as the 55+ other masters.

Just go to www.PodiatricSuccess.com and register and "Listen to the Masters"

I had the great opportunity to have lunch with Craig Payne last week while I was in his town, and together we will help share the knowledge that Arena and PodiatricSuccess can provide the planet about foot care. Look for things to come.

Thanks again,
Bret Ribotsky

 

The Arena isn't an entity. In fact, it's not even about who attacks who and for what reason. It's how we perceive and react to our perceptions. In most threads like these, I really don't care who posts what, I just forget where I put my fecal dispenser and move on to the next thread.

 

Jeff's Debate Rules #2

IDD

Change of subject.