LGBT Community for SOCAP

By inference you are suggesting that currently members of the Society are unhappy and less productive in their workplace than they could be because their sexual orientation of LGBT is not represented by a separate organisation within the Society. As I said at the start, if you feel you are not being treated equally and fairly in your workplace due to your sexual orientation, then this is in breech of the 2010 equality act and you should take legal action. You do not need to be a member of the Society or any other organisation, the legislation is there to protect all. If you feel you need an organisation which celebrates your sexual orientation in the work-place, then this is a failing of the equality act and/ or your workplace. If you want a separate division of the Society which celebrates your sexual orientation then that's fine by me, so long as a) it doesn't cost the membership anything b) we can also have separate divisions of the Society which celebrates anyone elses sexuality/ interests.

Personaly, I have excellent professional relationships with the many gay and lesbian patients who choose to return time and again to receive treatment from me. This has been achieved without a LGBT forum from the Society and despite my own heterosexual orientation ;-). But there you go.

Yes there have been many views of this thread, most will be the same people looking at it on multiple occassions. What do the vast majority of respondents appear to be suggesting regarding this proposal?

You're not familiar with the various representative bodies within the UK then? The lack of professional closure? Did you spot the jibes at the Society within this thread? If you are unaware of these things, perhaps greater time and effort should be put into highlighting and rectifying these real divisions within our profession- this is where I should prefer to see time and effort being applied.

 

Thank you very much for your advice on my patient care. After 47 years of hands on patient care without complaint , I don't feel the need for any lectures from you .

I suggest you research your subject ( Podiatry history) before making snap judgements on separatism and fragmentation. You may learn a lot about why there is a reluctance to fragment and separate even further in the wider picture of UK podiatry.
Cheers
D

 

"Political Correctness" is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and a rabidly promoted or an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Could you give an example of 'a turd' with respect to the above definition or even more appropriately with respect to LGBT?

Thanks.

Bill

 

Bill that footnote has been on the bottom of my messages for many years to raise a smile nothing sinister or aimed at anyone just my thoughts on political correctness .

So no I cant give any examples as it is not aimed at anyone.
Cheers
D

 

Appreciate your comments folks. After spending half my life married to the same beautiful woman, having raised our children and enjoying our grandchildren I think the three most important things I've learned are:

1. I am content not to have all the answers.
2. It is better to press forward than to dwell in the past (Philippians 3:13).
3. Sometimes we need to agree to disagree and wish each other well.

David

 

You have an excellent relationship with those 'gay and lesbian ' patients who have chosen to come out to you and who have decided to 'return time and again'. You probably are not aware of the rest, some of whom return time and again and some who don't, eg those who haven't or are struggling with come out to themselves, those who haven't or are struggling come out to their parents, and families, those who didn't feel secure enough to come out to you, those who are struggling with a sense of guilt, those who thought it was of no importance, etc. I would have thought that these are the people, patients or podiatrists and issues that a forum would focus on rather than going to law.

Absolutely there should be no cost to the membership unless they want to donate something?

Bill

 

Hi David,

It matters not a jot to me whether you are gay, lesbian, transgender, black, white, one-legged, happily married with grandchildren, or miserable and dirty and live in a cave somewhere damp and horrible.
Or even White Supremacist, although I readily admit to being marginally less tolerant of fascism.

If we met you would find me polite, and helpful too (if appropriate), as I hope I am with all patients and colleagues.

Your first post gave the impression that you had, at the very least, a working knowledge of the gay community - especially your use of the word Pride, and I have to say that for someone new to forums, you seem to have picked up the ability to negotiate around this one fairly quickly, so well done for that.


I wish you well too.

David

 

I look forward to hearing on the role you volunteer to take up in management and running of such a forum and wish you well with your endeavor, Bill.

 

Thanks Simon,

Unfortunately my time is somewhat occupied with my MAD ALIACS DAH forum (Miserable And Dirty And Live In A Cave Somewhere Damp And Horrible forum) at the moment.

Best wishes,

Bill

 

I'm not sure if the above represents true toleration or 'false face must hide what false heart doth know' or hypocrisy. Not that it's always easy to tease them out.

Bill

 

Anyone who knows me personally, and there are a few on here, will know that I am not one for unnecessary social niceties Bill.

 

Thank you.
I've been to two prides and they were a lot of fun, good carnival atmosphere. I would be happy to go to another and promote Podiatry, it would be a good day out.
I also go to an annual Afro-Caribbean dinner dance. Out of a room of 350 I'm about the only white face in the room, but those people know how to dress, dance, eat and party. I wouldn't miss it.
David

 

Actually they run so behind schedule it's terrible, they are still on Jamaican time. Otherwise it's great.

 

I sometimes think that we fragment too easily and readily. This thread is a good illustration - if a less harmful expression than other examples. Within one group of individuals there is a proposal for a sub-group based on sexuality. If established and allowed to run for a while, perhaps the transgender or bisexual 'communities' will want to form their own identity - so they form a seperate group - perfectly natural it is argued, as they are often disliked by a minority of the gay and lesbian group. After a while all four groups demand individual autonomy and the LGBT are now four seperate entities - along with the heterosexuals, soloists, disinterested and married. All eight groups operate well for a few years then there is further division on each along the lines of religion, skin colour, ethnicity, place of birth, colour of hair and number of freckles until there is a group representing every single individual podiatrist. If you need a name for your group at that stage I would suggest 'member' - which of course could mean any number of things to a number of people but in this context it refers to one and the same.

We all have a unique identity of which sexuality is one small part. The view will always be much better in the opposite direction.

 

What is it in humans that produces such a fear of difference often a very subtle fear but always sufficient to push us away from certain others?

The more powerful group (superior), usually the majority, excludes the less powerful group (inferior). I am sure that there is a survival advantage in such behaviour. Even though the behaviour is relatively unselective, ie whether there is a risk from the minority or not they are excluded and historically a rationale has been supplied, for such behaviour, involving good and evil.

Fear of difference is, I suppose, fear of others but in a more dramatic form.

Can we grow up and out of it? Does awareness open our eyes or are we stuck in an evolutionary impasse?

Bill

 

Makes you wonder, changing behaviour is not easy - most of us will face such a test at some time in our lives whether it be quitting a bad habit or resolving a relationship dispute - to change often requires the greatest of effort and personal sacrifice. If there is to be any influence on human development it has to be in the programming - i.e. during a child's earliest years of development. The genetic influence is no more than a basic operating system; it's how they are programmed that determines their outcome. In other words how their parents bring them up.

You would think that by now we would make every effort to educate properly instead of simply producing fodder for the Capitalist Money Machine....but that is also another debate.

Are you still amongst the garlic themdays ?

 

Gosh what a todo!

I saw this rather amusing poster related to the american debate on "womens reproductive rights"



I think that pretty much sums up my view on this. Being as I am, fairly much hetrosexual, my vie on whether a group for homosexual people within podiatry amounts to a puff of warm methane. Like Gay Marriage, if you don't support it, don't have one. If you don't like the idea of a LGBT podiatrist group, don't join it. But beyond that I really can't see where its any of our business. If LGBT people feel it would be useful to them, then the best of British luck to them!:drinks

The SCP has subgroups for management, for different specialties, for scottish people, for people from Kent etc. I can't see where any of these subgroups have fragmented anything. I rather suspect that the OP was more interested in hearing from LGBT people who wanted to join / had a view than on whether other people thought they should.

In entirely related news, I'm starting a group for podiatrists who enjoy poker, AND biltong AND archery (I'll consider associate membership if you satisfy 3 of the 4 criteria). If you want to join, let me know. If not, I'm afraid I don't care about what you think of my new group, and you can jog right along! :drinks. Filthy, chess playing salad eating dart throwing swines that you are.

 

3 out of 4 you say? Poker, biltong & playing with Bows? I make that 3. Put me down for the biltong possy.....lekker :drinks

Or shall I (in Simon Pegg stylie) "jog on"?

 

I think you are right.

 

I'm a Podiatrist.
I drink biltong (lite) most nights, and I can use a bow and arrow - please sign me up!

 

I suspect that he will already have heard from some people with LGBT characteristics directly.

The online jousting and jesting of the rest of us is really little more than that gentle puff of methane that was alluded to in a previous post. But once youv'e let it out into the atmosphere for everyone else to appreciate you don't half feel better or to put it another way we correspond to the 'no vagina' in the algorithm but a very opinionated no vagina.

Bill

 

You `drink` biltong?? Ag man. Next you`ll be telling me you listen to Springboks...SNG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qQNpb0f5Ds

 

So, the membership nor the council of the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists should have any say or control over any sub-group that wishes to form and employ their name, Robeer? In an earlier post that was deleted, Mark named a potential sub-group. What if such a sub-group wanted to form? If we followed your logic and since I hope no-one with sane mind within the Society's membership would consider themselves part of a group which entertained similar ideals, none of the remaining membership should be entitled to voice their opinions on it- since, by your logic: because they are not members of that sub-group their opinions "amount to a puff of methane" and viz. it's none of "our business", the sub-group should be allowed to form unopposed and promote itself under the Society's banner. Nice work, fella: the Society could next have a homophobic religiously fanatical sub-group and because you're not a homophobic, religious fanatic you have no right to comment on the appropriateness of this new sub-group within the Society because you "really can't see where it's any of our business". Y'all might want to think on that one while "you're picking up that turd by it's clean end".

In any democaratic organisation the opinion of the membership has to be taken into account regardless of their particularly standing on an issue, Robert.


Out of interest, how many that have commented on this thread are members of the Society in question?

I am. Anyone else?

 

I am at the moment. Probably won`t be for much longer.....Not that any of my posts were particularly thought-provoking in this thread. My increasing loss of interest is apparant, I`m sure.

Time for a break.

 

Yep, I think I'm done on this thread too. Time for a holiday.

 

Not sure I needed to know that! But I agree with you. Interesting forum, what a pity we have to be Soooo PC. :boohoo:

 

I'm already on holiday. That's why I have time to read and post, well when it's not beer o'clock.
I am also a member of the Society.

 

I like beer o'clock too. I am not a member of the Society (and am thus a member of a minority). However, I have every right to comment on this subject - as does everybody else - since the OP specifically invited non-members of the Society to join his (potential) sub group.

Bill Liggins

 

You are right Bill to comment and give your thoughts. I was just responding yes, to the question that was asked by Simon in post #63.

 

Where? Here is what was written:

Here is the title of the thread: LGBT Community for SOCAP. Can you point to where Chris "specifically invited non-members of the Society to join his (potential) sub group"? To me, the title of the thread and the fact that he stated that he is working on the behalf of SOCAP made it implicit, if not explicit that this was a SOCAP venture, for SOCAP members- perhaps Chris can clarify? Personally, I don't care who comments here upon the notion. Ultimately members of the Society will decide on this, not the non-members; if the forum is for SOCAP as the title of this thread and the OP suggests. Perhaps you should follow the Society's lead, and put this forward as an idea for the professional body which you represent/ are a member of as you appear to think it is a recruitment drive on behalf of SOCAP, Bill? Alternatively, you could perhaps try (again) to bring pressure to enable the profession in the UK to become united and remove the fragmentation of mutiple professional organisations so that the profession as a whole is stronger and has a single voice... only dreaming, too many vested interests obviously. I'd still like to see all those entitled to use the title chiropodist/ podiatrist balloted as to whether they wish for a single representative professional body, but I doubt it will ever happen while the grandees of each of the professional groups continue to hold on to the idea that they are "the grandees" of the profession as a whole. I wish that I had Mark Russells' poem- "the march of the grandees" to hand, but I don't. Be bold, push for the ballot and if the motion is voted in favour of, dissolve all of the existing organisations and start afresh.

One more day to holidays.

 

Me Too and as stated I'm not a member of the society.

Just one last point.

Podiatry consists in the main of sausage factory Tx = one in one out be that in the NHS or IPP.

Yes every patient is tX with courtesy and respect but around 30 mins later they are gone so where is the time to carry out all this in depth psycho analysis

There is no time within the remit of podiatry which is my point A podiatrist is just that A PODIATRIST irrespective of sexual orientation, gender or anything else. The 30 min /60 min appointment should be filled with the knowledge and clinical skills imparted to that patient. Anything else IMHO is outside the remit of podiatry and therefore how can anyone justify bringing anything outside of that remit set up a sub society within a society that has no bearing on podiatry Tx the patient as a whole but keep it sensible please yep primary assessments should include vascular, neuro , biomx exams but sexual orientation... R U Sure?? I have never seen that on an assessment directive anywhere.

As again I said if you want to set up belong to a group fine no problems but make sure your passion stays within the group you aim at.

I'm in the don't fragment , PC correct it may be but you CANT pick up a turd by the clean end camp IMHO
So yep wife's away for the week = holiday for me
Cheers
D

 

He did, very specifically, invite non members of the Society to be involved:

"My main reason for posting here is to ask, 'who out there' would be interested in becoming involved in an LGBT network for Podiatrists?" ie. Anyone.

If that were not the case then he would, presumably have used the Society's own channels of communication. Of course, it may be that our interpretation is entirely different and you may feel that a posting on an open forum to; 'who out there' - ie anyone - only includes members of the Society. After all, it would not the first time that the Society and their members have arrogantly presented themselves as the only representatives of the profession in the UK.

In point of fact, I do not disagree with you concerning a single representative body and am on record as pushing for a General Podiatry Council (or some such). Which body refused this - even though a draft Act had been created by all the major pod organisations to present to Parliament? Guess? Your own much vaunted body. That being the case, you should set the ball rolling - be bold and push for a ballot via your Society.

All the best

Bill Liggins

PS We have gone through this time and again and the subject is now tedious. I therefore will not be commenting further on this thread, which in any case has diverted from the intent of the OP, to whom I wish the best of luck, although, like you, do not agree with even further fragmentation.

 

Did some mention the Grandees??

 

Why, yes - but only the Lite version. The leaded Biltong is just too heavy, almost chewy, for my taste.

Wait - the Springboks are on u-tube?
They do play jazz-funk, right?

 

Yep, that's the one. Replace SCP with the professional body of your choice and that pretty much sums up the political state of affairs in UK podiatry. "Look at it, say what it is..." Hicks.

 

After recent experiences of which I cannot divulge presently, I think there may indeed be a sequel. But for now, a large glass of red grape juice and good wishes bon voyage..somewhere salacious I hope?

 

The Black Country.

 

No where better. Visit the Pie Factory if you can - and take an interpreter. I like their sense of humour. When you go for a deposit in the gents and sit down and shut the door, there's a full size poster of George Michael staring back at you!

 

Biltong and fermented red grape juice - there is nothing better! An ex PhD student of mine (African of course) makes his own biltong. We used to eat it while driving to work in the morning. Very African!

 

I don't need an interpreter when I go home.:drinks