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Derby or an Oxford ?

Discussion in 'General Issues and Discussion Forum' started by Boots n all, May 8, 2008.

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  1. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member


    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    It would appear that there is some confusion over what an Oxford or Derby is.
    Do you know what the difference is?
    Dont bother using Google image as 50% of the images are incorrectly labeled, along with some Educational websites and Educational literature.

    What bought this more to my attention was a letter from a Podiatrist a few weeks ago, it read...
    “Please provide Mrs Smith with another pair of MGF “Oxfords” as the last pair you made worked well”
    l dont make MGF Oxfords, what the client has is a Derby, the podiatrist explained “a lace up is an Oxford”:confused:

    l then had an Orthortist drop in yesterday and l asked him the difference, he said “a Derby was a glued on sole whilst an Oxford was a stitched on sole”:bang:

    So what is the difference?
    An Oxford is where the Vamp overlays the Quarters.
    It has nothing to do with a leather sole as one website suggests.:wacko:
    An Oxford is rarely if ever used for the production of MGF as it has a shorter and narrower throat as the distal end of the lugs touch or maybe spread by only a few mil. and is sewn in place, meaning those with impaired vision, restricted ROM or peripheral neuropathy should avoid them.
    Whilst the three layers of upper material are stitched together over the Dorsum of the foot which should be avoided by diabetics.

    A Derby is when the quarters overlay the Vamp.
    The preferred design for MGF as it has a broader and deeper throat, the two layers of upper material are not stitched together over the Dorsum of the foot but over to the sides, meaning a more supple flexible upper.

    If that did not explain it well enough let me know l will mock up one of each to show you the view from the underside of the upper.
    Hopefully when you right your papers, website or when you order a shoe from your friendly Pedorthist:D you will order the right shoe
    l will now get off the soap box, thank you.
     
  2. twirly

    twirly Well-Known Member

    Hi David,

    Thank you for the explanation but I became lost during the lugs & vamps bit.

    A picture would be great.

    :drinks
     
  3. Admin2

    Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

    David - is this one right?

    Oxford shoe

    Men's cap toe oxford shoe Crockett & Jones

    An Oxford shoe is characterized by shoelace eyelets tabs that are attached under the vamp,[1] a feature termed "closed lacing".[2] This contrasts with Derbys, or bluchers, which have shoelace eyelets attached to the top of the vamp.[3] Originally, Oxfords were plain, formal shoes, made of leather, but they evolved into a range of styles suitable for formal, uniform, or casual wear. On the basis of function and the dictates of fashion, Oxfords are now made from a variety of materials, including calf leather, faux and genuine patent leather, suede, and canvas. They are normally black or brown, and may be plain or patterned (brogue).

    1. ^ Hibbert, Christopher, ed. (1988). "Oxford Shoe". The Encyclopaedia of Oxford. Macmillan. p. 304. ISBN 0-333-39917-X.
    2. ^ "The Derby Shoe & Blucher Guide — Gentleman's Gazette". www.gentlemansgazette.com. Retrieved 11 November 2015.
    3. ^ Schneider, Sven Raphael. "The Derby Shoe & Blucher Guide — Gentleman's Gazette". www.gentlemansgazette.com. Retrieved 7 September 2019.
     
  4. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    netizens


    According to Rossi W. 2000 The complete footwear dictionary (2nd edition) Kreiger Publishing Co: Florida, he would concur with Boots n all. The derby shoe was introduced in the 18th century by the Earl of Derby. It is a shoe pattern with facings and quarters overlaid and stitched onto the vamp. The shoe may or may not have tongue. The oxford was introduced a century before and described a lacing shoe where the vamp overlayed the quarters and met in front where they were laced. In both styles, the uppers would be originally stitched to the soles.

    A far as I am aware the Derby shoe style offers better (easier access) for the foot to enter the shoe than the standard oxford.

    Modern trainers now incorporate shoe casings which include (added) quaters and facings which technically exhibit a derby style but on a basic oxford shoe.

    toeslayer
     
  5. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    Yes Admin, thank you, l will during the day try and find time to make an upper of each without linings so that the reasons as to why we dont want Oxfords for MGF is clear especially from a diabetics view
     
  6. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    l have used multiple bright coloured leathers to highlight where each component starts and finishes and black thread to show the seams.....please dont judge my work on these samples, it was done with limited time available.

    Top picture, Left Derby right Oxford.
    Note this is from the underside of the upper and there are no linings to confuse or hide what we are talking about.
    The Derby is one piece over the dorsum of the foot, the most likely part for a shearing action.
    Whilst the Oxford is all seams over the dorsum, the tongue just adding to the thickness and another seam

    Bottom picture, Left Derby right Oxford.
    This shows how much greater the throat opens on the Derby for ease of fitting, note on the Oxford the distal lugs are unable to open any further as they are stitched in place.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    Want them!!!!! Just as they are! derby on r/foot, oxford on l/foot, smashin' .... down the beach they'll be real head-turners
     
  8. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    Boots 'n'all

    A simple shoe modification which extends the eyelets down to the toe box would improve foot access in an oxford but I agree the Derby is more suited.

    On a another rmatter not unrelated I may have to take issue with Wikipedia on the Balmoral, which if memory serves was a boot and not a shoe . Made popular by Queen Victoria and the gusset variety was proprotedly designed by Prince Albert. Victoria made outside walking fashionable for women in the 19th century and had footweat to suit the occassion. Balmoral only became a focus of Royal attention after Albert and Victoria started to use it as a retreat in the 19th century.

    I think Wikipaedia have confused the Balmoral boot with Gillie Shoes which were worn by fell workers then later adotped by the landed gentry and eventully became the Oxford Brogue. Many of the original wing tip patterns incorporate ancient symbols which would approrpriate for hunters and gatherers.

    Traditonally the Scots and Irish peeps proudly went barefoot and considered those who wore shoes as weaklings (the English). With the Highland clearances, Potato Famine and general exile from Sctoland and Ireland, the barefoot traditon went to the colonies and can be seen today in parts of the US and Australia.

    toeslayer
     
  9. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

    "A simple shoe modification which extends the eyelets down to the toe box would improve foot access in an oxford but I agree the Derby is more suited."

    ? if you extend the eyelets down to the toe box that means the seams of the quarters and that extra layer of tongue would end up at the major flex point (MPJ)

    However l regularly extend a Derby pattern down to the toe box for the wears of AfO's or restricted ROM's

    markjohconley, if you take them you have to wear them:D, mind you freight might be a bugger
     
  10. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    David

    >? if you extend the eyelets down to the toe box that means the seams of the quarters and that extra layer of tongue would end up at the major flex point (MPJ)

    No argument from me - a Derby is better.

    toeslayer
     
  11. markjohconley

    markjohconley Well-Known Member

    You're definitely onto something here Boots, bigger than 'CROCS', i'm in, let's call them "FLOPS".
    Also, Admin, when I did the podiatry course under Phil Perry in Sydney (late 80's) we had lectures on "footwear appreciation" covering such topics. Do the courses nowadays include same?
     
  12. Boots n all

    Boots n all Well-Known Member

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