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Parish & Bell clinic gone under?

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by tkpa, Feb 17, 2009.

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  1. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Dergaz

    Please PM me. I will not adjust, cover or carry out any alterations to you P & B orthoses, however, I will be happy to see you gratis as a new patient and try to sort out your problem.

    W J Liggins
     
  2. You won't get a better offer than that degaz!
     
  3. andymiles

    andymiles Active Member


    Those perpetual half page ads in the national newspapers would not have come cheap.
     
  4. David Wedemeyer

    David Wedemeyer Well-Known Member

    More sensational marketing from the master?

    "Les Bailey and Sam Williams teach you step-by-step how to dominate any market. Their own business income soared from thousands to millions of pounds in a very short time-span using the methods within. All this despite vicious competition and severe industry hostility. They achieved this by exhaustively out-marketing their competition until they could no longer 'keep up'."

    http://www.gazellebookservices.co.uk/ISBN/1905575033.htm
     
  5. AVAROSE

    AVAROSE Welcome New Poster

    I too have paid 750 for a pair of orthotics in August 2008,(unfortunately, paid by direct debit and not on credit card, so lost the money, which incidentally I borrowed as was out of work). I was seen by two people, Mr Paul Williams who diagnosed me with dropped arches and pronation of the foot (I was told last week that I have no such thing). Waited 9 weeks for othotics (problem with new
    manufacturer in Ireland). Was told to wear them in trainers for 12 weeks which I did, but was in agony, and when I spoke to P & B, they said I shouldn't have been wearing them in trainers (even though the letter I had which I had to sign to say I would wear trainers). Rang for appointment for adjustment and saw the great Mr Les Bailey himself who could in my opinion sell 'ice to the eskimos'. He said he could see what the problem was straight away, and arranged alteration. Waited 5 weeks and finally received in December 2008. Still in considerable pain in January, rang clinic to make further appointment. Appointment was cancelled as Mr Bailey ill (ahhh). Have never been able to get through to them since. Complained by email and the phone was still on with the answermachine message until about 9 days ago, when, surprise, surprise it went dead. Did a bit of investigating and have found out sooooo much about this Company. I have already been ripped off before, and I remember saying to Mr Bailey, I do hope this is not a scam, but when you see their adverts in Daily Mail, Saga magazine and their 'Charity' work, you are so desparate for help, that you truly believe you have at last found a solution and Mr Bailey promised me 'he would sort my feet out', and I feel so stupid to have believed him. I have written to Watchdog, and I urge any other people to do the same. Their so called clinics in various parts of the country, are just rented space in office blocks. I have been told there is NO Harley Street clinic (which in itself, is another reason to think they are a viable company). As to their claim (in the unlikely event of your orthotics needing adjustments), I have spoken and seen someone who used to carry out their adjustments (until was ripped off and not paid), and he had carrier bags from one length of his workshop to the other, all P & B adjustments. He is a reputable orthopaedic orthotic manufacturer with 32 years experience, and does not want his name associated with anything that P & B do.I have spoken to the shop owners on the parade where the clinic is in Carshalton, and they have been inundated by people trying to find out what has happened to P & B, as they have paid money, or are waiting for orthotics. One chap had paid a deposit of £2400 for 4 pairs of orthotics as was told he needed different types for all his shoes, and have found out that all they do is use same mould, but cover it with a different coloured leather. I have been told that my orthotics are not suitable for my foot problem and consequently, I am having new ones done,at a fraction of the cost, and this guy has gone out of his way to help me. He has received lots of calls from people who bought from P & B, and although in fairness, he has said that people have been helped by P & B, but there are hundreds who have not. People have travelled from all over the country to see them, and I feel extremely sorry for the people who do not have access to internet and can find out, through sites like yours more facts. Mr Bailey, Mr Williams, his sister Sam Williams(Marketing) and all the other so called Biomechanical Engineers at P & B have been greedy, and they had to claw money back somehow from the enormous costs of their advertising, so why not rip off the good old public and charge extortionate amounts for a product?, (that in my case, is worthless). I am so sorry to rant on, and I know this is a site for professionals, but when I read this thread (only after googling Parish & Bell complaints), I needed to get this off my chest.

    By the way, Les Bailey, hope you lose your lovely big house and your Bentley Car ('bent' being the operative word in your case). Oh yes, what is the reason that you were no longer allowed to practice as an osteopath? do tell. I will be keeping an eye on Companies House, as you no doubt will do the ‘phoenix’ and rise up again and rip some more people off. If you do read this Les, I suggest you google your own company under complaints, and you will then realise how some poor people are really suffering by not receiving goods, waiting for alterations etc. Many of them elderly. Perhaps you could make a gesture, get on your website (which is still up and running) and apologise. I have experience of companies going into liquidation, and know for a fact, that you will not ‘lose’ much at all, so why don’t you contact all the people and give them their money back?
     
  6. I did not think anything about this sad, sad business could surprise me. I was wrong.

    Behold, the shapeshifter.

    [​IMG]

    from the website which speaks of a
    To this

    [​IMG]

    Not by providing a better service then. Your words Mr Bailey.



    So,

    and
    does not quite ring true with

    so i'll pass on the book thanks. Unless you release a second edition with a chapter on how to cope with going into liquidation. Perhaps when you have had some experiance in that field.

    Kindest regards
    Robert
     
  7. Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2009
  8. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
  9. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Avarose

    I read your post with a deep sympathy and feel the stifled anger contained within

    I don't know who the "practitioner" you mention is but having just treated a care worker( £6.00 per hour) from an nursing home who made and appointment with P & B for £50.00 only to be told "we have never seen anything like this before" they did absolutely nothing with regard to treatment, and the girl left minus £50 . The problem was straightforward and was sorted by me:mad:

    My own Laboratory is in Canada ( The orthotic group) with the European distribution hub in southern Ireland.

    I have made enquiries with them as to the laboratory that is claimed by L B as deliberately making faulty orthotics to harm patients with a view to damaging L B's reputation.

    They have come up with all the (known by them) orthotic labs in Ireland and I am informed ,"a lab based in Limerick at some stage in the past that has now relocated in the UK did have dealings with P & B and went a similar way to P & B but are still practicing over here".

    Whether that is the lab in question or not no one knows for sure , BUT......

    PERHAPS MR BAILEY WOULD LIKE TO EXPAND ON THAT AS WELL ???:rolleyes:

    Robert as usual has cut to the chase and

    NOPE, didn't work with me:cool:


    Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllll:rolleyes:

    Obviously not according to the new evidence, but then everyones golf shot pleases someone especially if they are providing a better service:rolleyes:
    Many Podiatrists on this site have sorted out the problems of P& B and are still thriving.

    I wonder why ???

    cheers
    Derek;)
     
  10. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Craig

    Yep he's a star aint he :D:D:D

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  11. Nikki

    Nikki Active Member

    Sadly only today I saw a patient who asked me about the claims of Parish and Bell as he has had ongoing foot pain for 17 years (today was the first time I had seen him).
    I simply said they had gone into liquidation thanks to Podiatry Arena for the up to the minute news)which surprised him somewhat as he has only recently repeatedly seen adverts for them in the Sunday papers.
     
  12. AVAROSE

    AVAROSE Welcome New Poster

    Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I must admit I thought that the book cover posted by Mr Isaacs was a made up one, and I have just been on amazon and seen it as a paperback! I wonder whether the chartered accountants 'Blythe & Co' are aware? In response to DTT comment about the so called biomechanic practitioner, Mr Paul Williams who I initially saw, his sister is Sam Williams the co-author of the book in question and the Marketing person at P & B. Well, you have to keep it in the family, don't you? One other thing that Les told me is that he makes sure all his staff wear orthotics (even if they don't need them) for a day, just so they can 'experience the sort of pain some of our patients are in'! What an absolute load of ...... On another site I have read a message from the son of a lady of 84 who has paid over £1,000 to P & B and has no chance whatsover of ever receiving the goods. Such a shame, but I don't for one minute think that Billybull****bailey and his partners in fraud will lose any sleep. Thanks again
     
  13. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Nikki


    Perhaps you should show that to your patient, shows how"lucky " he was not to get involved ??


    Might make him feel better and that he is in "proper " hands now to continue his treatment:cool:
    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  14. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    AVAROSE

    yours and all post on this site are read by podiatrists and many other professions involved in footcare around the world and as you can see the response is one of general disgust at your treatment and sympathy for your situation.

    If that is the case then as was quoted in a earlier post, that is FRAUD and the people involved should take redress through law .

    Again my sympathy

    cheers
    Derek
     
  15. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    In addition to the above story on heelspurs.com, look at the latest:
     
  16. David Wedemeyer

    David Wedemeyer Well-Known Member

    "The false is forever in the lead in everything, continually dragging the fools (those who trust blindly or unknowingly) along with it. The truth always brings up the rear, is late, and limps along upon the arm of time...

    Deceit is superficial, wherefore the superficial (of knowledge) are taken in at once. The person of substance lives safely within himself, to be better treasured of his colleagues and those who know"

    Baltasar Gracain, 1647

    I found this quote almost prophetic with regard to this thread and the sales mentality of those who put themselves before their patients. It is no way intended to disparage those who were taken in by these people. We assume we should be able to trust our doctors to provide us with competent, compassionate care for our concerns and maladies and that their knowledge and educational level would lend to them rising above what amounts to deception and common thievery. The providers here had a fair idea of what was occurring the entire time and now their suspicions have been vindicated:

    :butcher:
     
  17. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    I want to revisit this point:
    Anyone with anything more than a superficial knowledge of foot orthotics knows that different foot orthotic labs have different prescription protocols and manufacturing protocols. Obviously no one at Parish and Bell had that knowledge or they would not have had that problem.

    If you, for example, ask for 5mm arch fill (or the equivalent on a scanned negative model) from two different labs, that will be interpreted two different ways and two different shaped products will result. Your prescribing protocol has to vary from lab to lab if you want to get the same shaped product...thats pretty basic stuff when it comes to understanding foot orthoses.

    Interesting that Les Bailey alleges a conspiracy against them, when it appears to be nothing more than them not modifying their prescription protocol when going to a new lab. Who is to blame for that? I guess its easier to use the lab as the scapegoat than accept the truth.
    It will be in the running for the quote of 2009!
     
  18. I thought that Mr. Ed and Dr. Rhubarb couldn't be outdone with their outlandish foot orthosis marketing schemes.....this Les Bailey guy really takes the cake from what I can see! I nominate him to be added to the top of the Podiatry Arena's........:mad:......:boxing:....:craig:.....:eek:....Hall of Shame!!
     
  19. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    Done.
     
  20. Secret Squirrel

    Secret Squirrel Active Member

    Reading this thread and that at other forums about all those who have issues with the company, its hard not to believe this.
     
  21. bluelake

    bluelake Welcome New Poster

    Just like to join the list of dissatisfied customers of Parish & Bell.

    I paid £1,760 for 3 pairs of orthotics. I would obviously have preferred to try just one for starters but was told that the guarantee might not be forthcoming if I didn't give the products a fair trial and use them in ALL my shoes. They told me to try each adjustment for 3 months, then it took 1-2 months to get a new pair. They told me that I must try at least 4 adjustments before thinking about a refund. I was due for my 4th adjustment last month and then they went into voluntary liquidation.

    There has been zero improvement in my condition and I am contacting my cc company to request a refund. Because I "only" paid £500 by cc and the balance by cheque, I was surprised to learn from Consumer Direct that the cc company were liable for the full amount - as they were " jointly and severally liable".

    Note to Dergaz - I was also advised by Consumer Direct (08454-040506) that the only time period regarding honouring guarantees was 6 years, so I would take your case up with your credit card company again under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.
     
  22. This is quite true. A lesser known "loophole" is that if you pay for something from a current account and you go into your overdraft on that transaction that is covered by your bank. This is because technically, as with the credit card, YOU didn't pay for the goods, the bank did. It is therefor up to the bank to recover their money from the person supplying the goods and services.

    Gosh. That must be all of the 1.05% not successful on this one thread!

    Regards
    Robert
     
  23. This is becoming more interesting by the day. Just found another enterprise that Mr Bailey is involved in...

    He's on the team for....


    Which, BTW, is a protected title I do not beleive he is entitled to still be using...

    All good fun!

    Robert
     
  24. twirly

    twirly Well-Known Member

    & from the P&B website (still up & running)................

    My question.

    'Would a practitioner not first perform an assessment to ascertain the suitability of the initial pair (which surely can be moved from one pair of footwear to another as required!) before issuing further 'same prescription' orthosis'?

    Just wondering. But then I am not claiming to be 'pioneering' an over priced orthosis at the detriment of other professionals!!!

    I quote Mr Bailey.

    Just wondering so do forgive me if this appears a stupid question. :confused:

    Regards, Mandy.
     
  25. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

     
  26. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Twirls



    I have a golden rule, I NEVER supply a further Rx to any patient until I am a 100% sure they are completely happy with the original Rx and no "tweaks " are needed even if the patient requests them at the start.

    Then as Davidh says if they want another pair for court shoes/trainers / walking boots then fine I know the Rx will do "what it says on the tin" that patient is fully aware of the costings and THEY ask me for further pairs which incidentally is usually because they get fed up with changing from shoe to shoe and want a pair for each ??

    There you go:D
    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  27. blueflame

    blueflame Welcome New Poster

    Hello everyone,

    I also have dealt with P+B.I handed over 2800 euro for three pairs.On the second visit they decided to remake them,on the third visit they adjusted one of the three pairs.on the fourth visit they adjusted that pair again,On the fifth visit due in January they cancelled the day before.I dealt with 3 different specialists including the wonderful Mr BAILEY.This sorry saga started in September 07 AND MY FEET ARE STILL KILLING ME.Sorry about the life story but I have tried every option including mri scans.It was the clinic in Bray Ireland I dealt with which involved a 260 mile round trip each time
     
  28. Playing Devil's advocate: I have a problem that is resolved with prescription X when worn in shoes Y (a pair of trainers), will the same prescription be efficacious in another pair of shoes, Z (court shoes with a 1.5" heel) ? ;)
     
  29. PodAus

    PodAus Active Member

    Yes, but only if I walk uphill... :morning:

    Cheers,

    Paul D
     
  30. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    I have only occasionally found a clinical need for a patient to need more than one pair. Why is it that all of those Parish & Bell ex-patients posting here and on other forums seem to need several? Is greed and marketing hype from Parish and Bell the reason?
     

  31. Telling the patient/customer they need multiple pairs of "orthotics" is common practice with the Good Feet chain of stores here in the States, that charge the patient/customer about $550.00 (USD) for three pairs of pre-made orthoses that probably costs them less than $30.00 wholesale. It is a scam and Good Feet has been reported with numerous complaints to the respective state authorities...but they keep on doing it day after day.

    You may want to watch the video on this site about the way the Good Feet stores practice.
     
  32. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Simon , Craig , Kevin et al

    Simon you said

    You Simon Nooooooooooooooooo ;-) ))))))))

    Take your point but if the original has set the standard the additional mods should not be to taxing to sort out ( getting them to walk uphill perhaps as a test ?? (Thanks for that Paul D) :D:D;)

    Craig you said

    I think "want, need and sold" are the pointers here, if the patient WANTS to have extra pairs then fine as far as I'm concerned. Do they NEED them clinically no but personal choice ?? The ethics comes in IMHO when they are SOLD orthotics in numbers BEFORE any attempt is made to ensure the "wearability" to that patient and to ensure the symptoms have settled.

    Kevin
    you said

    Exactly TELLING the patient that I find questionable


    If I have Rx'd for say a casual shoe which sulcus length orthotics are more appropriate everything settles and the pt returns for a further order for say tennis shoe which imho require a full length orthotic for stability in the shoe then yep I do as they request but it is always at their request.

    As I said the main reason I get a second order is the patient gets fed up with changing them from shoe to shoe so, their choice.

    How many would choose to do that if I was charging some of the prices quoted on this site ??

    Perhaps that would explain the hard sell and multiple pairs sold initially by P & B inasmuch as their customers would be less likely to return ??

    I would also make the point on costs, I don't have a problem with how much people charge for anything provided they don't make fictitious claims and the job is done properly.

    Whilst the Lab price may be as Craig quoted in SOME labs ( exchange rates have altered that dramatically over here) a practitioners overheads must be included in the overall cost to the patient which will obviously vary immensely .

    The problem I feel come in to what is " reasonable" and that must lie with the conscience of the practitioner. I personally am not into being a busy fool and I have to pay my taxes and overheads AND make a profit so what I charge may be deemed by some to be expensive but I actually sit in the middle of those I know provide a similar service and that will do for me.

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
  33. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    'Europe's leading foot specialist' gives a concise and in depth description of the perils of high heels here
     
  34. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Ian

    My My ,he does get around dosen't he:rolleyes:

    Foot specialist registered osteopath, biomechanics expert do his talent know no bounds:rolleyes:

    cheers
    Derek
     
  35. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Hi Derek,

    Thought you'd like that one. Here's another of his gems! He also seems to be quite the authority on ladies footwear... not sure about bones literally wearing through flesh though....

    Ian
     
  36. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Ian

    Weeeeelll , I'm sure there is some evidence based research ( probably double blinded ) that came up with this revelation??:D

    Seemingly all knowing about the "girlie" perspective isnt he.........:rolleyes:
    D;)
     
  37. Admin2

    Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

    See
    'Good Feet Stores' under investigation
     
  38. wtyron

    wtyron Welcome New Poster

    Dear Les,

    I am astonished and hurt that Parish & Bell have gone into liquidation without informing any of its latest customers. I am bewildered that your website is still up and running.

    I feel SOOOOO angry with you and your b****y marketing tactics. I was duped, hook line and sinker. I really thought you were a most impressive person and was absolutely taken in by all those letters pasted in your shop, by your book, by your catalogue, by your office bureau. Was this all an act??!

    I came all the way from the other side of London to get assessed, and was so excited at the prospect of getting rid of my foot pain. All of your b*****y guarantees about how 97% of your patients recover is absolute nonsense. I am still walking with a lot of pain in my feet and the new insoles that were adjusted simply was a botched job. I cant believe it - I really have been taken advantage of. All of your b****y guarantees about money back - my partner and I have had a huge fall out over this. I have never felt like such a mug.

    Having spent £1300 for two pairs and yet only used my visa card for 500 of this, I seem to now be only possibly able to recover 500 if my visa card company agrees with me.

    Someone like you should be absolutely ashamed of yourself. I have been duped, conned and I am totally hurt.

    I have written to Trading Standards, BBC Watchdog. If ANYONE on this forum wants to write to them too, please do.

    "Finally, to our patients, I am deeply and truly sorry if you are one who has lost money and I would like you to know this was in no way intended.

    All of our past failures (luckily very few!) received their promised refunds and I truly regret we cannot do this for the very recent ones."


    Do the decent thing - close down your b****y website.
    Do the decent thing - pay us all back what u promised.

    Tyron Woolfe
     
  39. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
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    At the very least they could have changed the website to advise patients where to go to get continuing care. All health professionals have a 'duty-of-care' to, at the very least, do this. Its part of what it is to be a "professional" and act ethically. It appears Les Bailey is not registered as an osteopath and is certainly not part of any profession registered with the Health Professions Council, so is not accountable to anyone professionaly or ethically for the failure to provide this 'duty-of-care' .
    The first thing that greets you on the Parish and Bell website is:
    That another lie - I know lots of clinics and clinicians in many countries who have been offering that for years!
    I hope Les Bailey is coming back to read the impact his behaviour has had on so many people.
    We still waiting to hear what your lawyers have to say.
     
  40. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    No sooner than I post the above comes this news story about a financially troubled podiatry clinic in the USA:
    BUT, at least on this occasion:
    At least in this situation, duty-of-care has prevailed and patients have been given options (link to that story)
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
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