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Parish & Bell clinic gone under?

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by tkpa, Feb 17, 2009.

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  1. Hi Derek,

    Thanks so much for your offer, I have just secured an an appointment for Monday- so problem solved- all being well!......

    I contacted Marks Bloom the liquidator administrator and I have to say the eleven page document I received made interesting reading- it included the history of P&B, account details and long list of creditors.

    If things don't go as I'm hoping they will I'll contact you again- BTW I live in West Oxfordshire- next door to the RAF base @ Brize Norton!
    I was really heartened with all the responses to my post- thanks again, it's so difficult NOT to get emotional on this issue...

    Regards
    Alma
     
  2. Hi Simon

    The orthotics I purchased from P & B did eliminate my heel pain but they did not improve my well-being as I now have musculature pains in my legs- which I did not not have before when I had heel pain! So I have swapped one type of discomfort for another!!!

    I had one adjustment from Les Bailey in December when he also told me the shoes I wore were not the right shoes for orthotics because they had a camber- but this WASN"T pointed out to me in my initial appointment when I took all the shoes I wore with me!

    So, currently I have one "starter" pair of orthotics which have had the width reduce and one pair which haven't and the "starter" pair which I wear are not right they have transformed me into "a new woman".

    Regards
    Alma
     
  3. dyfoot

    dyfoot Active Member

    Hi,

    Even from God's own, I think that I can hear the sound of barge poles in the backgound!:wacko:

    Good luck to all the suffering patients reading these pages!:empathy:

    Cheers,:drinks

    Brad
     
  4. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    Would be interested in seeing that if its in the public domain. Can it be posted as an attachment?
     
  5. I shall now defend les bailey.

    I am not convinced you have a case here. You went with heel pain. The heel pain is now gone. It could be argued that this was the purpose of the device.

    It is not unusual for devices to cause some muscle pain initially. After all they do change the way you walk. Where exactly is the pain? How long did you persevere with the insoles?

    The other thing is that you would need to show a causal link between the leg pain and the insoles. I suspect the heel pain limited your activity. What if the leg pain was caused by increasing activity levels? Different footwear?

    Not Fit for purpose? Tough to prove.

    Not as advertised might be easier!

    Regards
    Robert.
     
  6. slaveboy

    slaveboy Member

    What to do ????

    A Patient walked in today for a biomechanical assessment with regards to her feet. On assessment she informed me that she had be contacted by someone who use to work for parish and bell and use to make the orthotics for them. He informed the patient that parish and bell were no more, but he was quite happy to see her. He arranged to meet her at the time and place outside an unused shop that was not being used and he got out of his car and informed her to follow him to a chiropractic clinic of which he had hired the room. Subsequently she was informed after 10 mins and no paper work that she she needed to pairs of orthotics at a cost of 440 pounds each (Blimey they have come down) of which she could only pay for them via cash or cheque.

    Now my question is do i inform the clinic that hes hiring the room from of what is going on with regards to lots of patients trying to get there money back or is he within his rights to do this. Also is he allowed access to client information of a company that is in liquidation??? He got her detail via parish and bell as she had her appointment booked and was cancelled the day before they went into liquidation so he is contacting people via there database

    sb
     
  7. My point, hence my questions. When you make lots of devices you get the odd one or two that don't get the results they think they should get- even though you've explained what the realistic outcomes are. The words "unfit for purpose" have been used to me a couple of times over the years, both times by patients that were indeed very odd and didn't follow my advice and didn't give me the opportunity to modify the devices post dispensation. My response is: "if you want your money back, you just need to say "I'd like my money back, please"". The reality is I could have gone to court and probably won both cases, but it just ain't worth the hassle. They are so few and far between. One of these days though I'll go to court and argue against their expert witness just for the fun of it.:boxing:

    As it's Friday: Something for the weekend, Sir?
    Given one of the "best" trials regarding the efficacy of foot orthoses in the treatment of plantar fasciitis concluded:
    "Foot orthoses produce small short-term benefits in function and may also produce small reductions in pain for people with plantar fasciitis, but they do not have long-term beneficial effects compared with a sham device." (Landorf KB; Keenan AM; Herbert RD: Effectiveness of foot orthoses to treat plantar fasciitis: a randomized trial. Arch Intern Med. 2006 Jun 26;166(12):1305-10.) Could we argue that all foot orthoses employed to treat plantar fasciitis are "not fit for purpose"? I suspect several U.S. insurance companies did...

    Just a bit of fun to get y'all thinking......
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2009
  8. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    Surely that has to be a major breech of privacy legislation. :confused:
     
  9. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Breech of the data protection act


    Liquidator should be informed, details in an earlier post

    Now ....... do I smell something fishy going on here ( especially with the spelling mistakes.....):rolleyes:

    Perhaps the quid pro quo situation ??

    Perhaps Craig can check the IP addy coz I think it may be a familiar one ??

    Cheers
    D;)
     
  10. Hi Robert


    Thanks for taking time to reply.

    I've just realised I made a stupid error in my above post I meant HAVEN'T "turned me into a new woman" :-( (quote from L. Bailey)

    Item 4.5 of the P &B terms and conditions states " If after 4 adjustments the orthotics are not fit for purpose, we will refund you the price you paid for those orthotics".

    I have had one adjustment only- that's the problem. Also one pair of orthotics are in unadjusted....... I'm wearing them constantly because I want to sort the P & B business before consulting another podiatrist.

    Cheers
    Alma
     
  11. Hi Craig

    Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner.
    I'm happy to photocopy it again and to send it to someone on the list in the UK- as it will be rather heavy and therefore costly to send to Australia.

    BTW Fiber Quality Orthotics Farmingdale, 11735 New York are listed so that may be where the orthotics were manufactured..?

    Cheers
    Alma
     
  12. slaveboy

    slaveboy Member

    DTT

    Are you trying to imply i am something to do with Parish & Bell??

    Nothing fishy going on here Craig can check IP. Apart from being dyslexic what i wrote all looked fine to me, then again it always does.

    Chris
     
  13. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Alma

    Please accept my apologies for the delay in the reply I am trying to sort out several dissatisfied P &B customers with podiatrists that can help them and it's pushing an already busy schedule.

    Please feel free to PM me if you need help and I'll see if I can sort one out for you as well:cool:

    Best wishes
    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  14. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Chris

    What professional discipline do you practice ??

    Write to you professional body and ask them the correct course of action after obtaining in writing the full details of the ladies complaint.

    FYI most people develop a "style" of posting which can be very easily spotted by regular posters so..........:rolleyes:

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2009
  15. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi again Chris

    Thank you for your PM clarifying the situation.

    I apologise unreservedly for my assumption and again would urge you to take your information to the appropriate authorities.

    Again my sincere apologies:eek:

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  16. RSB2009

    RSB2009 Welcome New Poster

    Hi there, I am another affected person from Parish and Bell bankrupt (1755 pounds, and after 2 years of wearing their orthotics, no improvement at all, waiting for the last revision, 4th).

    Reasons for my investment?

    1. 35-years old basketball guy not being able to play sports due to plantar fasciitis.
    2. Full guarantee of money back if not cured
    3. Absence of bad critics in the web at that time
    4. No success with other podiatrists, physiotherapists, osteopaths, medics, etc.

    After spending several hours reading the complaints in this site and others, I would say there are reasons that suggest irregularities in this business:

    1. 99% success of being cured was based in very misleading calculations.
    2. It looks from the comments here and my own case that they might have tried to delay final appointments to avoid refunding.
    3. It is unbelievable that the company just broke down with such low rate of refunding and such astronomical prices (selling thousands of pairs, as they claim).

    Therefore, I would like to thank this site to allow, exceptionally, a chat like this, and I would ask for a bit of action to everyone affected (not only patients). We could make a list of affected people and have a chat by email, between us, to decide what we want to do. Perhaps the administrator would like to coordinate this (in a first stage), sending a personal message to all those people affected and ask them if they would like to participate in a private chat by email. If so, I could make a googlegroup account for us. It would be very useful to have such list of people.

    I made a blog with exactly this intention www.parishandbellaffected.wordpress.com, but does not seem to appear in Google search yet because Google takes its time to index new websites (but just typing the address does work)
    As I say in this blog, it is not a question of accusing anyone but just to join efforts to find out what really happened and see if we can get our money back. Additionally, if at some point it is clear, by possible court action, that P&B has done something wrong, it will be beneficial to know for potential future clients of a possible reborn business with the same philosophy. (Until then, I think P&B should be considered totally innocent for those people willing to collaborate to find out what happened).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2009
  17. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Ricardo

    Check the address of P & B on your site , it is Banstead Road Carshalton not Carshalton Road.

    Can I ask another question of the patients of this clinic please??

    How many of you were sold a "homeopathic / herbal" prescription to help in speeding the healing of the tissues and was on a repeat prescription costing around £200 per month ??

    I understand from an ex associate this was common practice in this last year prescribed from from Mr Bailey and /or an associate .

    I just want a clarification and confirmation as the scource of my information would appear to be the highest available, and I would like to give Mr Bailey the chance to defend himself.

    Cheers

    Derek;)
     
  18. RSB2009

    RSB2009 Welcome New Poster

    Thanks
    I would like to note that P&B claimed that their orthothics last a life time. Well, mine in two years of normal use (non sport because I can't) are quite deteriorated already. I mentioned this to ASA. Actually, one of my 2 permanent orthotics, is just to through to the bin because the modification they did was unbearable. The 3rd one was a "starter" and that one is really damaged by now. So I paid 1700 pounds for one pair that will be unusable at some point relatively soon.

    One question: does anyone know the email contact from the famous US laboratory? I would like to know if they could modify my second pair as it was originally.

    Another question: I read here that P&B orthotics were actually not unique in the UK. However, ASA did not find missleading the claim from P&B about their orthotics. If anyone of the profesionals here could demonstrate that they use similar tipe of orthotics I think it would be a good argument.
     
  19. roger2shirts

    roger2shirts Active Member

    There have been quite a few disparaging remarks about the conduct of "registered osteopaths".
    Osteopathy is very heavily regulated in the UK by the General Osteopathic Council www.osteopathy.org.uk
    If any osteopath has been practicing in an unacceptable manner they want to know about it.
    Likewise anyone who is not registered with them and claiming to be an osteopath is in big trouble because it is a legally protected title. You can view the register online.
    To my knowledge there is a clause in the GOstC rules stating that items sold may not be sold at a profit, but I'm not 100% certain on this fact.
    So before anyone knocks the osteopathic profession if you have a problem with an osteopath or someone claiming illegally to be an osteopath then please contact the general Osteopathic Council who will take your concerns VERY seriously.

    But 99.9% of osteopaths are decent and well trained professionals so please do not judge us by the "reported activities" of an individual.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2009
  20. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    I don't recall seeing any on this thread ?
    I assume they can not act against Les bailey. Here is his profile from the P & B site:
    He is not calling himself an osteopath, but if you read this thread he has not done the osteopathy profession any behaviours in the way he has conducted himself professionally and ethically. His association with the osteopathy profession is clear. I wonder if patients considered him to be an osteopath?
     
  21. Especially if the individual is an EX osteopath. Although i have it on good authority that he left the register of his own volition and not via a conduct committee, contrary to the washroom rumor. I wonder why he did so. Do records exist of when Mr Bailey ceased to be an osteopath? I can't think why a clinician would go to the hard work of getting registered just to let it lapse!

    Never fear Roger. We have our share of "characters" in podiatry so I'm sure no one would be so crass as to judge the broth by what floats to the top, be it cream or other. Not sure which remarks you mean!

    Thanks for your input. Stick around and check out some of the clinical threads! Always nice to have a non podiatrist view on things :drinks.

    Regards
    Robert
     
  22. Deborah Ferguson

    Deborah Ferguson Active Member

    Hi All
    A patient of mine had a negative and expensive experience of P&B's orthoses.
    I would like to see some published research to back up the claims of the high success rate in treating patients.
    Healthcare, including podiatry must use evidence based practice and I would like to see the evidence.
    Thanks
    Deborah
     
  23. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    The claims by P & B about their success rate was based on their internal data on how many refunds that gave - its become pretty obvious in this thread and on other forums that the claims were spurious
    Off-the-top of my head I can think of 40-50 patient satisfaction; patient outcomes studies; and randomised controlled trials on foot orthoses - not one of them showed that foot orthoses didn't work. They showed they work really well. A simple literature search will turn them up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2009
  24. Deborah Ferguson

    Deborah Ferguson Active Member

    Hi Craig
    I was thinking specifically of P&B's published research on their success rates not for orthoses in general.
    Thanks
    Deborah
     
  25. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    OK - misunderstood.

    Earlier in this thread I rubbished the claim on the P & B website about the first in the world offerring a 100% money back guarentee. I pointed out the many people I knew who were doing it for a long time (we even had a thread here on money back gurantees!).

    Since posting that message, I have checked with a couple of clinics I know who offer this 100% refund to see what their refund rate was compared to the P & B claims. One said they had not had to give a refund in the last 12 months and the other said it was way less than 1% ---- that suggests to me that the success rate claimed by P & B (based on the refund rate) is actually quite poor!
     
  26. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Local press keep records :rolleyes:

    It was very well publicised locally, I seem to remember when the "Nightingale Clinic" in Carshalton closed through allegations made from some female patients :eek:

    Cant remember the exact details but i believe he resigned as an osteopath before the axe fell:rolleyes:

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  27. Do they now? :rolleyes:

    And which local press would that be?

    R
     
  28. William Fowler

    William Fowler Active Member

    Roger, don't you think its a problem that anyone can practice a clinical discipline that includes an activity that can impact on a persons health can do so and not be accountable for their actions to any professional regulatory body?
     
  29. roger2shirts

    roger2shirts Active Member

    In response to William Fowler.

    Anyone who treats a member of the public, in my humble opinion, needs to be accountable to a regulatory body that will take measures to safeguard the public against incompetence, immoral, and dangerous activities by a "therapist".

    Be they a podiatrist, osteopath or brain surgeon they are all regulated by such a body.

    I would like to see it in law that anyone claiming to "treat" directly or indirectly an individual for a "condition" that they must be registered with a regulatory body and hold full indemnity cover.

    Simply hiding behind a limited company is to me unacceptable. But as I do not know the facts of this case I am being very careful to say that my opinion is for registration in general as opposed to any individual case.
     
  30. Hi Roger 2 Shirts

    I have heard from one podiatrist the the prescribing of orthotics is not regulated and therefore it's an open field for all sorts of prescriptions etc etc.

    Cheers
    Alma
     
  31. roger2shirts

    roger2shirts Active Member

    Alma,

    I agree with you and I would like to see legislation on any form of prescriptive "medical device".
    The problem being that everyone seems to be flogging these things these days!
    Is there any podiatry certification for the prescription of custom orthotics outside of the undergraduate degree?
     
  32. William Fowler

    William Fowler Active Member

    Osteopaths are registered with and are accountable to the General Osteopathic Council; Podiatrists/Chiropodists and Prosthetists/orthotists and Physiotherapists are registered with and are accountable to the Health Professions Council. So, while the prescribing of orthotics is not necessarily regulated (like a number of other "treatments"), most of those doing it are accountable for their professional actions. It just there are some who are doing it who are not accountable to any professional regulatory body.
     
  33. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Alma

    That's why you can get "orthotics" from the newspaper , magazines a variety of practitioners ( who's knowledge is in many cases sadly lacking) as many are practicing a discipline outside of their scope of practice.

    Unfortunately you would appear to have been sold your devices by someone that has NO recognised qualification in podiatry ( or anything else for that matter ) and is therefore unregulated and not accountable to anyone.

    Therin lies a problem because literally anyone can set up a stall and sell the unwary a "miracle device that will cure all ills" ( used to call it a snake oil salesman) . As I told you in my reply to your PM Make sure your PODIATRIST is registered with the HPC and is therefore accountable for any wrong doing or treating outside their scope of practice.

    I do not believe it is possible to regulate the sale of orthotics until an orthotic is defined accurately and even then a minefield awaits the regulator:rolleyes:

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  34. col77

    col77 Welcome New Poster

    Hi there

    I am a bit in shock, went to ring Parish and Bell today to arrange an appointment to get a few pairs of orthotics adjusted ( this is ongoing since March 2008 ) and thought it was strange number wouldn't work, got suspicious and after Google search I was led to this discussion forum.

    My story is I paid €2200 in the clinic in Bray, Ireland a year ago for 3 pairs ( 2 Comfort and 1 Sports ) like many of you in a lot of foot pain ( still not resolved ) but thinking I was secure with the 4 adjustments and money back guarantee. I have to say I am disgusted with the shady practices of company owners especially ripping off elderly people, where is the integrity and honesty gone today? in a way I am happy the credit crunch is bringing all this badness to light in banks etc. and it was heartening to see Ephesians 5:11 quoted in this thread, i believe in Divine justice and i pray for all those people still in pain and seriously out of pocket with financial troubles of the current moment.

    One thing I would like to say about P & B is that the consultant I dealt with in Bray, Janet was very decent and I hope she is not too long out of work, she struck me as a compassionate and helpful person, thank you Janet if you are reading this

    What I can gather from this thread is that if I contact my credit card company I have a chance of a refund as I bought in last 6 years i.e 1 year ago, could somebody kindly confirm this is my next step to carry out?

    Thanks
    Colin
    -----------

    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." (Albert Einstein)
     
  35. col77

    col77 Welcome New Poster

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2009
  36. twirly

    twirly Well-Known Member

    Hi Colin,

    I am sorry to hear of your trouble obtaining a solution.

    I would advise contacting your Citizens Advice team & then contact your credit card company.

    All the best.

    Mandy.
     
  37. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Colin,

    I'm a little confused... your story starts like many unfortunate others:

    However you then puzzlingly state:

    What the...?? How exactly did Janet help you? By charging you 2k for 3 pairs of orthoses (which from reading this thread you must have learnt cost probably around £100 to manufacture per pair at most)...none of which have even been beneficial???
     
  38. mrs hind

    mrs hind Welcome New Poster

    Do you know I find this whole topic EXTREMELY interesting!!

    I have also been foolish enough to buy his orthotics and used to go to Mr Bailey when he was an oestopath.

    I expect Mr Bailey will do what he has done before and no doubt, something he and his poor family will have to do again? Move far, far away, where he isn't known and start again!

    I can only suggest people keep an eye out for his future whereabouts and ensure he doesn't rip any other unfortunate and harding working people off due to his sheer greediness and dis respect for his fellow members of the public!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2009
  39. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Mrs Hind

    I have it on the best authority Mr Bailey is on a Skiing holiday as we speak:mad:

    So perhaps he will move from his present abode ( no family involved now I am informed) to...... Who knows but sooooooooooooooooooooo many people are watching it wont be long before we find out I'm sure :cool:

    Cheers
    Derek;)
     
  40. col77

    col77 Welcome New Poster

    i never said they had not been beneficial, basically there were still adjustments to be made to the sports pair and a spare of the general walking pair which obviously cant be done now but the pair that has been adjusted does do a good job to relieve the foot pain but in hindsight yes the price is a rip off but i just wanted to say that Janet struck me as sincere and just because the directors were doing business in a bad way doesn't mean the workers at the coalface were aware of the full details of the accounts etc.

    I shall contact my credit card company, thanks for the advice Mandy
     
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