Parish & Bell clinic gone under?

Colin,

My apologies - that was an assumption I made based on your previous statement that your foot pain had 'not resolved'

This is what miffs many of us - the way they flogged many people 3 pairs of orthoses immediately. Out of interest what is their rationale for you having/needing 3 pairs straight away? What was their 'sales' patter? Why is a spare general walking pair necessary? Would it not be better practice to 'adjust' one pair initially, and then once they know what works for that patient then offer them the opportunity of purchasing more pairs??

Whilst I agree that 'mere workers' may not be aware of full company accounts etc I'm afraid it is ridiculous to assume that said workers were completely unaware of the profit margins Parish & Bell made on orthotic devices. Not to mention that they have possibly been instructed to sell people multiple devices following initial consultation. Maybe even on commission?? (speculation your honour) Either way I personally question the ethics of any of the 'biomechanics consultants' working for Parish & Bell and suspect a massive breach of their professional bodies' codes of conduct (if any of them even had a governing professional body of course...)

 

Anyone smell a rat?

 

Hello,

I too, am one of the patients that paid Parish & Bell £1760 for three pairs of orthotics. I was told at my initial appointment that if I buy more than one pair I will get a discount. I was also told that it's better to buy more pairs straight away as once they scan your feet they will not keep the scanned images. In their favour, I have to say that the orthotics have healed my pain, for a while anyway. I started wearing them June 08 and all was well up until now when all the Plantas Fasciitis symptoms returned. Mind you, I was pregnant in between so not sure if this could have caused my feet to change. Anyway, I called them today to book an adjustment only to find out the number doesn't work and after googling them I found out they have gone into liquidation. I live in London (soon moving to Hampshire) but if there are any podiatrists that think they may be able to help me please pm or email me. Many thanks.

 

hello asking desperately for some help have pain in both balls and now tibialis swelling inside of ankle bought from parish and bell over £1200 december desperate for help felt bullied by them - now the product doesnt work and i dont know what to do or where to go - i live in chelmsford essex - i am visiting the london foot and ankle clinic and they do orthotics there but i am very nervous - any help please

 

There is a wonderful podiatrist in your area called Alison Shoulders who you'll find in the Yellow Pages, she is excellent and very honest. In the meantime get to an osteopath to sort out your immediate problem.

 

Hi Roger

Interesting idea for treatment of a foot problem ??

Seeing as the now infamous LB was an osteopath ( at some point) and is the one who caused the issue I wouldn't have thought your advice ( however well meaning) would be taken too well??

I would have thought logically a podiatrist that is Biomechnical lead in their practice would be the practitioner of choice.

Cheers
Derek

 

Derek,

I am an osteopath:
1. We treat feet and all forms of soft tissue / articular dysfunction, feet respond very well to this therapeutic approach.
2. The "osteopath" you quote was unregistered and therefore I hope you are not tarring my profession with the same brush?
3. Orthotics work well when they are appropriately prescribed but my concern is that they are over prescribed and that often they are simply a crutch.

I have worked with excellent podiatrists over the years and a combined approach is far more effective.

 

Roger

I gathered that by the advice.

No not at all I take many referrals from local osteopaths wanting orthotics for their patients and many are very capable practitioners. I was making the point that if Raphael has been following this thread ( and others elsewhere ) he will have seen the LB was once claiming to be an osteopath so he may not take your advice too well.

Yes I agree orthotics do work well "When Appropriately Rx'd". I Feel the over Rx is in many cases because many other disciplines are jumping on the bandwagon are attempting to Rx the and producing an "Inappropriate" device because they have not the proper knowledge or training required ??

Cheers
Derek

 

Derek,

I do not recall podiatrists having exclusive rights to prescribe orthotics!

Nor do I recall any "certified / approved" qualification required to prescribe them?

This is a position podiatry needs to get sorted out, though I feel the horse may have long since bolted.

I too share your concern over everyone jumping on the bandwagon and seeing this as a money spinner with the consequent problems. I don't recall opticians having the same problem with prescriptions.

This clinic still has the General Osteopathic Council logo on his website which is illegal for him to do so.

As I've stated before any osteopath prescribing orthotics will have to follow a stringent code as dictated by the GOstC or otherwise they will be in big trouble so hence perhaps we are the "right ones" to be doing this!

I was once a podiatrist and cut my teeth with orthotics, but since qualifying as an osteopath I have always referred out to those who are the experts in the foot.

 

Roger

Unfortunately this is true

Well I could tell you that there was many moons ago in the diploma days, but agreed today

I fear you are again correct and in more ways that one.

And has the said council taken any action against him ??

.

As do many of your colleagues and by the same token I refer to them for my hips back patients etc so it works well if used correctly:drinks
Cheers
Derek

 

Hi Raphael,

Don't be nervous - I think it is fair to assume that whatever clinic you go to none will be the same experience for you as Parish & Bell was. I very much doubt there could be another clinic which bullied its patients as much, and certainly none even in London which charge anywhere near that sort of money for orthoses. All clinics (and clinicians) are different, and luckily there are very few Les Bailey's amongst us.

Wish you all the best

Ian

 

In response to why the GOstC has not taken action over this; they probably haven't been informed and they can only act if a complaint is made to them. Details on their website: http://www.osteopathy.org.uk/about_gosc/
If he isn't claiming to be currently practicing as an osteopath then there probably isn't much they can do but it is illegal for them to have the GOstC logo on their website.
If they are no longer trading then this website may be out of their control or ownership if they are bankrupt.
But as it seems they are not registered with anyone they will escape to set up another business.
What has the podiatry profession done about them?

 

Roger

So Basiclly they are about as much use as the HPC ??

Chocolate teapots spring to mindigs:
Cheers
Derek

 

Suffering from Achilles tendonitis and plantar fasciitis and tired of not being able to run or even walk much without pain, I went to see P&B last October after seeing a full page ad in the newspaper. My consultant was Janet Cain and she tried to sell me at least 4 types of orthotics for each of my shoe ‘types’. I ended up with two, the first pair (Action Track) apparently costing GBP660 and the second pair (a different type) costing GBP560. I received them in December last year and after only 3 months of wear, they have deteriorated rapidly. The leather has come detached from the middle foam layer and the foam layer has also come detached from the harder plastic bottom layer which has been worn down too. So much for the 'you'll only need to replace the leather cover every 2 - 4 years depending on usage' that I was told during my consultation. More importantly though, I am still in pain and can't get the adjustments I require. I have tried to contact P&B over the last couple of weeks but after being unable to get through to the barred number, I found out they had gone bankrupt via Google.

My partner also went to see P&B, hoping they too could fix his problems. After his consultation with Paul Williams, he ended up with two pairs as well, but this time his Action Track pair were said to cost GBP700, while his second pair cost GBP520. I thought it was strange that we were quoted two different prices for the same type of orthotic, yet the magic total for the two pairs somehow ended up the same as mine - GBP1220. I thought for a second that it was dodgy pricing, but didn’t say anything at the time. A few days later I called up the customer service number to query this, but the lady just told me that each type of orthotic is different for each individual and therefore prices were likely to vary blah blah blah. She would not quote anything other than that orthotics cost somewhere from GBP250. What they also forget to tell you upfront is that the GBP250 types are only for people who don’t require any real adjustments and that if you actually have some sort of pain, the prices jump to more than GBP500 automatically. Pricing aside, my partner still has niggling pain that just won’t go away and is holding him back from running at his full potential.

We are outraged at what has transpired with P&B and have obviously seen none of the ‘excellent after care’ they promised. We struggle to believe anything that Les Bailey has to say on the matter, particularly his efforts to cry poor.igs:

 

Their advertising alludes to Les Bailey "qualifying" as an osteopath. of course this is a semantic argument because he is not a practicing osteopath. :hammer:

http://www.parishandbell.co.uk/staff_les.shtml

It is apparent to me that using the term osteopath and prescribing in their advertising and on his bio are an attempt to lull potential clients into the belief that he has these privileges. In our system (U.S.) medical necessity is warranted when dispensing custom foot orthoses and seeking payment from third party payors. Doesn't it logically follow that although Mr. Bailey attended osteopathic medicine college and qualified as an osteopath, he in fact is not a licensed, practicing osteopath and therefore does not enjoy the same privileges as his licensed and regulated colleagues.

Should he have been prescribing CFO's at all during the time span where he was not licensed? Are these practices regulated in the U.K. as they are in the U.S.? Apparently anyone can erect a shingle and sell foot orthoses and charge cash fees. Because I am not knowledgeable about the system over there except that it is not private as it is here, I wonder if your health care system reimburses for these items based on medical necessity and which providers licenses allow them to make those decisions?

Did the U.K. health system reimburse any of these people for their P&B insoles?



Regards,

 

No, that would be for NHS care.

However

I recently changed dentist after the chap i saw left the practice. The new practice took x rays and told me that a crown fitted 10 months ago had to be redone cos it was not flush with the gum. I took the x rays to the old practice to get a refund. They told me that my contract, notwithstanding the fact that the payment was to the practice, with the DENTIST NOT THE PRACTICE. In other words that I had to pursue the dentist personally for my refund. I contacted the GDC and they confirmed that this was the case.

I wonder if this is peculiar to the dental profession or if it is more general to all AHPs. Because if it is the latter then it may be that Les may carry personal liability for the devices prescribed rather than P&B as a company...

Watch out for his new practice, opening very soon I hear!

Regards
Robert

 

Hi Rob

Would that not be negated as he has declared himself bankrupt (notwithstanding the skiing holidays ??)

I think he is bullet proof and would appear not to give a toss for those who he has treated so badly.

I think the only recourse would be litigation by those concerned in a joint venture, but the likelihood of that happening is I fear dwindling:bang:

Cheers

Derek

 

Oooo Oooo tell us more! Location of clinic? Name of practice?

I hope there is a very long queue of P&B customers awaiting him on his first day...

Ian

 

Did'nt think he was PERSONALLY bankrupt! Either way it would be interesting. If it is a package of care which was embarked on...

I'll do some asking.

That would be pleasant! I wonder if the local paper might be intersted in a pheonix like rebirth! A nice feel good story in these dark days...

When I know anything, the forum will know approx 0.456 seconds later.

Regards
Robert

 

I told you that you couldn't resist !!

Are you sure you don't want that letter from the health food shop where he is Rx "back up herbal stuff" at loadsamoney without the patients consent ??

You know it makes sense Rodney

cheers Mate
Derek

 

Hi Dave

If you look back in this thread you will see he was practicing as an osteopath in his previous clinic ( The nightingale clinic Carshalton Surrey) where there were apparently 3 allegations of professional ( among other) misconduct from female patients which culminated in his resignation ( before the axe fell).

So yes we have a problem and no it seems no-one can do anything about it except salvage the wreckage from those that have been shipwrecked:empathy:

cheers
Derek

 

You mean a letter which rx's about £200 worth of herbal quackery (sorry, alternative medication) with a note to say that because it "natural" medicine it can take 3 months to even start working unlike those "harsh chemicals" which start working straight away? The one where there were some significant questions asked about whether that company had the patients details passed to it by P&B without the patients consent? That sort of letter?

Would'nt know anything about that!

You're a very bad man Harland! You old serpent you!
Regards
Robert

 

Thank you Robert, I was curious what arm of the government actually pays the bill. Does the NHS reimburse for orthoses to say pods and orthotists for necessary orthoses in the UK? And to think I find our system and Medicare confusing :bash:

Derek I just do not understand how an unlicensed person can exist and thrive prescribing insoles when I would think that in order to ply his trade he would have to be currently licensed in the first place. That is where my confusion lies. Doesn't anyone pay a visit to these unlicensed clinics and inquire by whose authority they are prescribing and dispensing their "one of a kind" polypro wonders?

Baffling and horrid.

Regards,

 

David,

Anyone can sell insoles here and to my knowledge its totally unregulated. If it is regulated its totally unsupervised.

 

Hi Dave

I think Roger has it exactly right

And to modify your footnote

then there would be a lot more L B's in the world and even more patients queing for their money back

The bovine excrement catches em the taurean excrement seals the deal.

That's how it works over here :craig:

The HPC was supposed to stop this sort of thing with podiatrists but he calls himself what he fancies at the time which makes a mockery of all regulation and control.

Cheers
Derek

 

Robert, Roger and Derek,

I suppose it is no better in the U.S. in some regards. We have a scant measure of regulation in as far as when insurers actually pay they will only pay the appropriate categories of providers for orthoses (not to mention diabetic insoles + footwear). very few states in the U.S. have orthotic and prosthetic licensure, but the federal government and insurers appear to adhere to a policy of only reimbursing trained individuals (well, at least they are making a modicum of effort ). Medicare now requires that certain designated providers perform the service for diabetics and in the absence of that provider being an MD, DO or DPM a script detailing medical necessity is required, especially for the diabetic patient population. There are no ground rules for custom foot orthoses though in the wild and while the language designating what constitutes a CFO while very clear to readers here, is something altogether in retail shops and clinics all around the country. If I can fault the podiatric field with anything it is not maintaining what was rightfully theirs to provide and seeking legislation to protect their unique modality. Oh I rant...well it's alright because now we have pedorthists to help out..

I guess anyone who only seeks cash reimbursement can proffer themselves a former or 'qualifying' physician and sell their wares to the unsuspecting public. This is a good time for a Rothbart's insole rant but I digress...

On a side note, it fascinates me how disparately the health profession are organized in other lands. Osteopathy is almost entirely allopathic in it's approach here in the U.S. and if I am not mistaken much more "hands on" in Europe. I'll be long gone before I understand fully the rights of podiatrists there and in Australia compared to here. I was at the PFOLA conference in San Diego, Ca in 07' and a good friend (who is a DPM) and I met two Belgian podiatrists. We got to talking and their job description was much more like that of a pedorthist than a podiatrist. They do not perform surgery there at all I was informed. Personally I always thought of DPM's as surgeons but later learned there was so much more to their training, biomechanics, orthoses etc..who knew!?

While podiatrists are not the only qualified category of provider to dispense orthoses they are as a whole the most qualified. I think that you would agree with this statement Roger. I know my program as a chiropractor did not devote any didactic education to orthoses and I am not aware that the osteopathic profession here does either, although it is within our scopes of practice. Often scope of practice does not equal competency in practice though as we are all aware.:deadhorse:

I sincerely hope that the former P&B customers find some measure of resolution and one of the appropriate foot specialists to commence their continuity of care. What a travesty, Mr. Bailey and his cohorts should be ashamed of themselves.

Regards,

 

Oh You mean this one that was give to us the other day by my scource, apparently as we were informed "the new lady in Les's life owns the shop

But you know that !!!

You ( and others ) are always telling me "Get thee behind me Satan"

BUT

Lets face it Im sooooooooooooooooooo much more fun when i'm in front of you aint I !!

Cheers

Derek

 

Hi David,

Osteopaths in the UK now undergo a 4 or 5 year MSc degree but are not allopathic Drs. The emphasis is still on hands on treatment which our American cousins have largely abandoned for the pill and knife, but there are still some amazing "traditional" osteopaths in the States. Though I suspect in 20 years osteopathy in the Uk will have been "medicalised" and for one I believe it will be a good thing provided we retain our "hands on ability". Increased diagnostic ability and access to the NHS would be its main advantage.

To my knowledge there is no undergraduate training in "orthotic prescription" in our undergraduate training. Likewise I don't believe the insurance companies will reimburse for prescription orthotics either.

What an osteopath's patients can be assure of in the UK is that to be registered you have to adhere to a very strict code which is very aggressively enforced.

 

My elderly mother also paid £700 for an orthotic insert for her shoes from P&B. Although they have been adjusted once she still suffers extreme pain when walking and has never really had any relief from the orthotic.

Can anyone please recommend someone honest in the Dorset area who may be able to assist my mother.

Thanks in advance.

 

Parish & Bell

I visited them last september and had my session with Mr Bailey. Like most i have been in pain for some time and his advertising campaign drew me in. I was also fed up with the medical proffesion as all my doctor wanted to do was inject me. I was told i had the worst feet he had ever seen, he was amazed i wasnt in more pain. He convinced me i needed a two step process, starter authotic then the the full one. In all i purchased 4 pairs at £2500. I felt it was very expensive, but what options are there? They arrived as stated and i used them as directed. Initialy the results were amazing, but as time wore on the pain returned. I phoned them and was told i needed to give them more time. Now i am Ok for a few hours then the pain comes back. I thought i would ring again and see if there was any adjustments that could be made. Now they are gone thats that.

My question is this - is there a genuine company that can actualy provide an orthotic (at reasonable cost!) that works?

Any help would be good!

 

Dear Ironica,

Where do you live?

I'm sure we can find a decent and honest practitioner for you.

Yours.

 

Re: Parish & Bell

Nobody can give you a 100% guarantee that an orthosis will give you 100% resolution of symptoms. But, there are many good practitioners out there who should be able to help you, without charging you the kind of money that you've (unfortunately) already paid out.

 

i live in bedfordshire,
many thanks

 

If you go into any members profile and press the my location button it shows the location of the arena members. Of course being a member is no guarentee of expertise but at least you know they spend time studying!

Regards
Robert

 

Ironica,

Alternatively you could go to yell.co.uk find an advertising podiatrist and the check them out on HPcheck.org to make sure they are registered.

S

 

Ironica,

You could also contact your local NHS Podiatry dept they will I am sure do a much better job than Parish and Bell did for you.

I think some NHS Trust will charge a small fee for additional orthotics over and above the frist pair this will not be remotely like the kind of fee you paid to P&B.

I hope that this is helpful.

Akbal

 

Ironica

I have good contacts in Bedfordshire who I can recommend. Do you want to go to my profile page and send me a message possibly, give me your phone number and I can talk to you about the situation and the clinic I'd recommend.

Cheers
Ian

 

Hi Akbul

Mostly done in my area VIA an orthopaedic surgeon in the first instance( around 36 weeks wait for non urgent) usually sent to the "surgical fitter"( after a further waiting period) who provides an otc appliance

I dont know the procedure in Bedfordshire?? I just hope its better than here

Cheers

Derek

 

Hi Deruk,

I was not aware of any Podiatry Dept in the Country using an Orthopaedic surgeon to triage, probably not a bad idea though. This must be particularly unsual as most Podiatry Dept have little or no contact with Orthopaedics.

If Ironica contacts her GP she should go straight to the Pod Dept without seeing Orthopaedics though it is possible that she may need a surgical intervention in which case this may not be a bad idea to go to orthopaedics.

AKBAL