Pose Running: before and after videos

admin · Sep 22, 2016

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Admin2 · Oct 24, 2012

Related Threads:
Other threads tagged with pose running, running and, running technique
The BBC: Do Pose technique running....
Does Pose Running Really Decrease Running Economy?
Pose technique of running: do not wear orthotics
Chi Running

Admin2 · Sep 22, 2016

Here are a few more that turned up:

Simon Spooner · Sep 22, 2016

To paraphrase a Rowan Atkinson sketch: "some people run as if there is something up their bottom, and other people run as if there is something coming out of their bottom"-

I'd say the above group of video's fall into the former category.

Kevin Kirby · Sep 22, 2016

Everyone must be taught to run "correctly" by the Pose Method...or else!!!!

Whatever happened to interindividual variation in achieving optimum metabolic efficiency in running?

Craig Payne · Oct 27, 2012

What I find amusing about Pose Running (and the same can be said for Chi running) is that I see they try to use a lot of science in their lectures, blog posts, etc but clearly they do not understand or can even properly read what they are quoting or use it wrongly. A lot of the science is actually quite good, but they just don't get it. Cherry picking and confirmation biases are rife!

They do go to extraordinary length to dismiss one study that shows Pose running is less economical, but in doing so they show how dismally they fail to understand the scientific process and method. Ironically, they blindly accept other research that they think supports Pose, without subjecting that to their same flawed approach to dismissing the other research. You can't have it both ways if you want any sort of cred.

Even their "biomechanical" arguments used to support Pose are a source of amusement for most biomechanists I know that have looked at it (see this analysis).

Pose and Chi running fail miserably when you critically appraise the science they pretend to use and the underpinning that support their claims.

I stand by what I said about Chi Running and the same applies to Pose Running:

I continue to be amazed at how gullible people are to fall for the rhetoric and propaganda. There is no second coming of the messiah!
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Even the term "good running form" is nonsenscial as there is no such thing. Its a marketing gimmick. There is no one best way to run for everyone and anyone marketing an approach (ie Chi, Pose, 100-up, Minimalist, Heel striking, etc) as the best way to run is talking through a hole in their heads. Their is no one best way or running form for everyone. The best one is what suits the individual runner, and for some, that could be Chi running
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There is no doubt that some runners with a history of injury who were running one way, transition to running a different way and now get less injuries. There is also no doubt that some who do that get more injuries!
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Chi running will work for some runners. It will not work for others. To sell it as a panacea is nonsensical
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One thing that is different about Pose, is that those who tout Pose as the "one best way" seem to be more sensitive to criticism that others.

Having said that, none of that actually means that there is anything wrong with Pose Running (its just the 'religious' like fervor of the supporters and the use of science that is a problem) - there are elements of Pose running that most runners probably should consider trying or integrating into their running.

Kevin Kirby · Oct 27, 2012

Even the Pose running people complain about Chi Running.

http://www.posecoachblog.com/2011/02/why-chi-running-is-less-efficient-than.html

Here is a nice commentary on this whole "running form" debate by Matt Fitzgerald that all the Chi, Pose and Evolution running form zealots should read and learn from.

http://running.competitor.com/2010/...whats-your-take-on-pose-and-chi-running_13831

Kevin Kirby · Oct 28, 2012

Here are some great comments from people who were personally trained by Romanov on his Pose Method of running from Ross Tucker's Sports Scientist website:

Alanjamesharvey•8 months ago

Found no differnce with pose. had to "think" to do somthing I have been doing for 30 years (pain free). With Pose I am slower, brethe harder and have calves that hurt...gave it 4 months. Sorry back to just running.

Averagebum•8 months ago•parent

As mentioned above, Pose is a scam. It doesn't work. Any one can make someone run with less pain by making him run more slowly. Pose does exactly that by shortening the runner's stride.

With increased cadence to make up for the shortened stride comes increased heart rate and breathing rate.

Pose coaches claim you need more than 4 months to get used to it, or may not be doing it properly at all, for eg, that you are landing with stiff ankles when you should be relaxing into a cushioned forefoot landing, ie, allowing the foot to simply drop to the ground forefoot first but not holding it stiffly.

All this is bolony.

Jay•3 months ago

I agree with you. This has been exactly my experience. All the points you mention above i.e. calf and ankle pain and trouble learning the technique.

Anjucapps•a year ago

Two weeks into trying to convert to pose and I cannot find any WOW! it changed my life reviews. Calves hurt like hell. Thanks for this report, very welcome

The Sports ScientistsMOD•a year ago•parent

No problem, I am glad you found it welcome. Of course, those who swear by Pose will tell you that your calf pain is your fault! That it's because you are not doing it properly, and that's one of my big objections to it - you can't sell someone "the answer" and then make it entirely their problem to get right and blame when they can't. Anyway, I hope that you are able to overcome your calf pain, borrow what works (because Pose does have some elements that work) and continue to enjoy running!

Ross

Averagebum•11 months ago•parent

Ross, Pose is promoted like a religion. It's followers mostly know nothing about biomechanics, and are asked to trust Dr Romanov just because he has a PhD in Biomechanics.

I was personally trained to be a Level 1 Coach by Dr Romanov, and I can tell you that of the at least 9 runners I tried training using Pose afterwards, practically all developed injuries in the feet and ankles.

To make matters worse, every one of them slowed down and displayed no progress in terms of racing speed.

Many of the Pose coaches adamently post on forums and videos on Youtube, but refuse to be criticized, believing that they have the answer when they don't even know they have been scammed.

Let me say that the money I spent on the basic course plus the level 1 coaching course was a complete waste, and I had to spend months retraining myself away from Pose technique.

The Sports ScientistsMOD•11 months ago•parent

Well put, and I agree with you 100%

I too trained as a Pose coach, when Romanov was in Cape Town, and the idea was that I'd continue to monitor the athletes who he himself had trained (2 hours a day attention for 2 weeks) to see how well they maintained the technique in the absence of supervision.
The answer is that most of those subjects broke down injured with the same problems you describe - calf, ankle, Achilles tendon. So we binned the planned study, because nobody was left to test!
And you're right about how aggressively it is marketed. It tends to attract that kind of person, I think, and they drown out the testimonies of those for whom it hasn't worked. So thank you for raising yours!

Ross

Averagebum•10 months ago•parent−

@The Sports Scientists: Hi Ross! So sorry, I didn't seem to have received a notification of your reply to my post.

Thank you very much for writing, and even more for your articles on Pose, etc, on this website.

I look forward to reading more of your writing!

I have written about Pose in reply because I have felt the great burden to keep runners informed. The Pose Method of Running is a very uneconomical form of running and it is very injury-causing.

Thanks, once again, Ross!
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Kevin Kirby · Oct 28, 2012

Here is a very detailed criticism of the Pose technique and Romanov from someone who has been involved in Pose training. Very interesting but not too hard to believe.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/10/pose-running-reduces-running-economythe.html

Averagebum

10 months ago

Hi Andrew, this is going to be a long post, and I am not sure if there is sufficient space here for it.

From my observation, some of us who have bought the videos and the books from the Posetech website did run faster BEFORE meeting up with Dr Romanov or a coach who would insist on following the strict criteria of his method.

After meeting up with one of them, however, we discovered that we weren't doing Pose at all. In fact, in the workshop that I attended back in 2007, run by Dr. Romanov himself, almost ALL of us discovered we were not doing Pose, try as hard as we did, and with some of us, such as myself, already having tried it using book and video for some time prior to the workshop.

Let me offer you a few possible reasons for this, Andrew:

(1) When we read the books, articles, and watched the videos, we interpreted Pose technique in a certain way, and then we allowed our bodies to do what felt right.

An example of an improvement in technique for those of us in this category would be avoiding over-striding and braking.

Another would be the lean from the ankle onto the ball of the foot rather than bending at the waist.

And another would be relaxing as much as possible while we ran.

However, NONE of these factors that improved our running technique was unique to Pose.

I will list for you the points that are unique to Pose technique further down. Here, I am trying to show that all these points I have just written about have been taught by good running coaches for decades, if not centuries.

So, after reading the books and watching the videos, you may have corrected over-striding and improved. Or you may have corrected leaning at the waist. Or you may have gotten rid of excessive tension in your trunk and limbs while you ran.

(2) Dr Romanov's technique is far more restrictive. In fact, he disallows so much freedom of movement that the runner usually has to chop his stride unnaturally, and move either like a snail, or use a ridiculously high cadence even for an average to above average pace, such that the pace cannot be maintained, and injuries would very likely be produced.

(3) In other words, if you followed Dr Romanov's strict guidelines, it is unlikely that you would beat your PB achieved using a more natural running form.

(4) Pose coaches are taught to tell their runners that perfect Pose technique is desirable but UNATTAINABLE. This is but an excuse to cover up for the scam that Pose produces more efficient technique when it doesn't.

Let me list for you the factors in running technique that are unique to the Pose Method of Running:

(1) Pulling the foot directly under the hip and avoiding any push-off. The purpose of this is to speed up the Recovery Phase of the foot after lift off, to get ready to drop it straight down to the ground, and to avoid a trailing leg, which is termed as lag and Late Pull.

(2) Avoidance of knee extension during the Recovery Phase so that the foot never extends in front of the knee. This is so unnatural that you won't realize you are not doing it until you actually film youself. As I explain in my classes and in a website I am trying to find time to create, it is actually undesirable and based on the false premise that extending the foot beyond the knee will lead to landing in that position.

Virtually all elite runners will produce knee extension with the foot anterior to the knee during the Recovery Phase, but will sharply pull the foot posteriorly prior to landing. I will not explain in detail here why they do this, but I must say that this is most necessary for the avoidance of braking, for the maintenance of velocity, and for producing acceleration when required.

(3) Increase of stride cadence for the increase of running speed while maintaining a very short stride length. This means that in order to speed up, you will only be allowed to increase cadence and NOT stride length. Most of us at first will think we are doing this after reading the books and watching the videos, only to find that in the workshop, we are far from doing it.

To maintain the short stride length required by the Pose Method, the running speed either must be kept ridiculously low, or the stride cadence must be so high as to make the technique totally uneconomical.

The most common observation is that Heart Rate will shoot through the roof with such an increase in cadence, and the runner will be panting like a mad man.

Let me share with you some real issues in the marketing and teaching of the Pose Method of Running:

(1) Reduction of knee loading while running at the same velocity can also mean that the reduction in load has been distributed somewhere else, in this case, the ankles and the feet.

Almost all of the injuries I have noted with my runners using Pose, and with my fellow Pose workshop mates, have been at the feet and ankles.

(2) Whenever the runner relies on forward lean to increase speed, he must do so in such a way as to increase vertical impact.

(3) Whenever we truncate the stride length unnaturally, we will increase ground-parallel forces going through the landing leg. There is insufficient space for me to explain this here, but this is a major premise in the model of running I teach.

(4) Preventing Push-off is most certainly going to slow a runner down. I can take any able-bodied Pose runner, add a proper push-off, and instantly increase his running speed compared with his running while using a strictly Pose style. This is very easy to prove to yourself. Please note though, that I am not advocating a triple-jumping, ridiculous type of push-off that would cause overstriding and lower your cadence so much that you end up running more slowly.

(5) Whenever a Pose coach is confronted with the slowing down effects of the strict technique of Pose, the excuse would be that during the learning phase, you would need to slow down, and slowly speed up as your cardiovascular system gets stronger, and/or as your ability to concentrate and coordinate your body to produce perfect technique can be sustained over increasing amounts of time.

(6) After spending up to a couple of years or more in frustratingly slow running sessions using the Pose Method, when this runner approaches and complains to a Pose Coach that he can hardly be said to be improving, the Pose coach will say that this is the best for the runner because perfect Pose technique is really unattainable.

(7) Pose coaches use elite runners such as Michael Johnson, Bekele, Haile Gebressalassie, and Usain Bolt as models of Pose when none of these are running Pose at all, and I am not claiming that they need to be officially coached Pose style. They don't run Pose style, full-stop.

Whenever someone shows individual pics of these elite runners extending their foot ahead of their knee during Recovery, and their knee fully extended posteriorly after lift-off, they will provide the excuse that running motion can only be observed in sequence, yet whenever a runner would attend a coaching session with them, they will always breakdown their form, no matter how fluid, to show them their errors, frame by frame, pointing out the slightest extension of the foot ahead of the knee, or the slightest push-off behind the hip.

In fact, if a runner like Bekele or Haile were to attend a Pose workshop disguised as a beginning runner, their competitive form would be criticized in the same way, if not much more, than many non-competitive runners, simply because they push-off more, extend anteriorly and then pull back more sharply than most of them.

The only reason such elite runners look fluid and compact in their running form is that their push-off is extremely powerful, and they have an amazingly short Recovery Phase, meaning they perform the entire stride more powerfully than most other runners. They look as if they were running the same way as an ordinary runner running, only that they are moving faster on the track. This is because they are COVERING MORE SPACE per stride, without overstriding.

This is completely contrary to Pose, which advocates a much higher cadence and with the maintenance of the same stride length. If Bekele or Haile were to follow the strict guidelines of Pose, they would be running with much shorter strides and with an almost machine-like cadence. They would not look relaxed and fluid at all.

The only way to realize that these elite runners are running more powerfully than slower runners, besides drawing this conclusion from their much greater speed around the track and comparing with that of a much slower runner who looks as if he were running with the same form, would be to look at the elite runner's running motion frame by frame.

Arguments, with very clear pictures, against using Haile, Bekele, and other elite runners to demonstrate Pose style have been posted in at least one forum, the Letsrun.com forum.

In summary, the Pose Method of Running books and videos will benefit the following categories of runners:

(1) Runners who read and applied the good points of technique NOT unique to Pose, as mentioned above,

(2) Runners who run with very bad form to begin with, such as overstriding, and an excessively powerful push-off with extremely low cadence.

(3) Total beginners or those recovering from injury. who would likely run faster on any program.

Total beginners would break any PB, of course, on almost any kind of running program.

Virtually
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Pose Running: before and after videos

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Proposed new regulations for running shoes

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Brooks Proposes Radical Shift in the Running Shoe Paradigm

Reasons to Not Do Gait Retraining (i.e. Chi, Pose or Evolution Running)

The BBC: Do Pose technique running....

Does Pose Running Really Decrease Running Economy?

The biological limits to running speed are imposed from the ground up

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Pose Running: before and after videos

admin Administrator Staff Member

Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

Simon Spooner MVP

Kevin Kirby MVP

Craig Payne Moderator

Kevin Kirby MVP

Kevin Kirby MVP

Kevin Kirby MVP

Proposed new regulations for running shoes

'Pose Running' Analysis

Brooks Proposes Radical Shift in the Running Shoe Paradigm

Reasons to Not Do Gait Retraining (i.e. Chi, Pose or Evolution Running)

The BBC: Do Pose technique running....

Does Pose Running Really Decrease Running Economy?

The biological limits to running speed are imposed from the ground up

Share This Page

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