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'Roll' vs 'Bend' in running shoes

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Craig Payne, Feb 2, 2015.

  1. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
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    A few days ago, Runners World had an article on 5 running shoe trends for 2015; nothing surprising there with the maximalism and increased cushioning trend continuing.

    One thing that was raised was the need for increased toe spring in the shoe when more cushioning is used. This is going to create more of a 'roll' during the later stance phase compared to the 'bend' or 'flex' that typically happens in a shoe with less padding (and is often facilitated with the 'flex groves' that manufacturers added).

    See the image below from Runners world of the New Balance Zante (with the fresh foam).

    This has interesting therapeutic implications, esp for things like structural hallux limitus and a number of "metatarsalgia" type conditions.

    I have not yet, but will soon delve into the toning shoe literature, as this will also have implications further up the kinetic chain as well.

    What say you?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. toomoon

    toomoon Well-Known Member

    In 2000 Darren Stefanyshyn, from the University of Calgary Human Performance Laboratory, was able to demonstrate that toe spring may actually interfere with propulsion by preventing the metatarsal heads from stabilising against a supporting surface. Stefanyshyn, along with Benno Nigg worked closely with adidas to construct a sprint spike with no toe spring. They claimed to be able to increase sprinting time by an average of 2/10th second over 100 metres. An improvement of this magnitude would almost certainly guarantee a gold medal in the Sydney Olympic Games. Unfortunately this was not the dream outcome for adidas, with their athlete, Ato Bolden, relegated to the silver medal behind the great Maurice Green.
     
  3. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
    Obvious difference is probably going to be a lack of full windlass establishment with more 'roll' and less 'bend' --> how much of a problem is that going to be?
     
  4. efuller

    efuller MVP

    Did he say what he meant by metatarsal heads stabilizing against the supporting surface?

    Eric
     
  5. toomoon

    toomoon Well-Known Member

    No Eric.. he did not define this..
     
  6. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    Articles:
    8
  7. Ricko

    Ricko Member

    For my reduced 1st MTPJ dorsiflexion - it seems I now have less dorsal joint pain > 30+ km runs since switching to a shoe without pronounced flex grooves and lower HHD (Pearl Izumi and Hoka Conquest)....thoughts on clinical application for comparable patients?
     
  8. pgcarter

    pgcarter Well-Known Member

    Hi Folks,
    This structure in running shoes has been mirrored in walking and trekking boots and shoes for years.....certainly the peak loads and joint compression forces are not as high when walking as opposed to jogging/running but the long duration of the mountain activities has led to some basic insights......a shoe with a flat internal forefoot space that will not easily move into dorsiflexion puts less stress on forefoot structures. A shoe that has a dorsiflexion curve built into it (this is where a lot of cheating goes on) does not do the same thing at all.
    Lots of the brands that tried to pretend they were making a rocker were actually just building in a dorsiflexion in the forefoot.....no real mystery there....they did not work the same.
    MBT at least make a proper forefoot rocker.....their problem I think is the heel rocker also......lots of people that would benefit from a forefoot rocker do not cope with a heel rocker well. These are basic ideas....is the footwear industry still wrestling with this?
    regards Phill Carter
     
  9. pgcarter

    pgcarter Well-Known Member

    For patients with almost any forefoot pathology a relatively rigid sole that does not dorsiflex very easily is often better. For limitus the cheapest thing is a 6mm piece of 270D EVA that is trimmed just distal to met heads and ground with a rounded distal plantar edge....it is a small in shoe rocker basically. For years I was often using the Brooks Addiction, but I have decided that the assymetric constuction in the rear foot crushes into supination too freely and if using an orthosis this causes trouble and does not give a long enough service life. So now I often use the Brooks Dyad...nice beefy sole but symmetric constructioin in heel so does not seem to crush into supination....longer service life because it collapses evenly over time and does not cause too much inversion when using an orthosis. If you need more rocker you can get one added to the sole....carbon foot plates work well for some.
    regards Phill Carter
     

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