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Rothbart Again??!!

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Kevin Kirby, Sep 9, 2009.

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    I just received this unsolicited e-mail from (supposedly) someone who believes in Rothbart's insoles and also thinks I don't give Rothbart enough respect (What, me worry?? Quote from Alfred E. Neuman). Did anyone else get this e-mail also?? Is Brian sending his dogs out to get all of us....or just me?!

  2. Craig Payne

    Craig Payne Moderator

    I got the spam too! Don't you pity the blind and deluded! Imagine trying to have a rational discussion with someone that irrational ... here in is the problem with Rothbart and his supporters.

    I still waiting for Brian Rothbart or anyone from the supporters club who posted testimonials about him in this thread:Vertical Facial Dimensions Linked to Abnormal Foot Motion to actually answer the repeated questions about the problems with the research the thead was about. Why can we never get a direct response to a question from Brian Rothbart or his club and why do his supporters always respond with irrational replies?
  3. Admin2

    Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

    Related threads:
    Threads tagged with Rothbart.
  4. DaVinci

    DaVinci Well-Known Member

    I didn't! What do I have to do to get the spam! Am I not as worthy as you guys?
    We also waiting for Dr Petros Kattou D.O to respond in this thread Podiatrist Sued for using "rigid orthotics with a heel lift". Like CP, I can never understand why they do not answer the questions when put to them.
  5. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    I didn't receive the spam - but I did like Kevin's Alfred E Neuman quote!
  6. I did'nt get it either :mad:. No fair! I demand spam! (spam spam spam lovely spam etc!)
    I'd have thought the insoles should have cured that!



    If you're going to mis-spell it I would suggest hole-istic would be more appropriate.

    Actually I do find this letter quite alarming. It goes to show how much mis-information can be absorbed and how easy it is for people to beleive. Obviously Brian offered this guy something no-body else did and convinced him of his "fallacious" views when no-one else could. I think dennis observed something about his more relaxed attitude to the truth being his "placebo power". Its much easier to beleive a simple and convincing lie than a complex and difficult truth. Or, to quote another author, a lie can run around the block before the truth has even got its trainers laced.

    Whats easier and more paletable for a patient.

    "Yes, your headaches are caused by your posture and I can correct that"


    "your headaches are are complex and multifactoral condition incorperating elements of metabolic problems, food intolerances, psychosocial factors, blood pressure, genetics and possibly musculoskeletal problems. I can attempt to address some of these using deductive rationale but the research does not exist to support my ability to make any difference beyond a placebo. But hey, the placebo rate for this sort of thing is around 40% and regression to the mean might help too so lets give it a crack shall we? $450 please"

    Its so much easier to convince people of a pleasant and simple delusion than to communicate a complex truth.

    What a depressing thought.

    We now await Brian to come and make good on this free publicity...

  7. Graham

    Graham RIP

  8. drsarbes

    drsarbes Well-Known Member

    Probably a salesman in disguise.
    Must have something to gain.
  9. I'm not important enough to receive this e-mail either. However, I have set up a support group for those feeling the urge to send similar e-mails. "hi, my name is Simon, I've got hyper-pronation and I need correcting" Pronation Anonymous, we believe it helps to talk (bull****).

    "Blood flow has been increased as he is more alert and active" MDMA anyone?
  10. I feel better about not getting one now.

    I do find it worrying how easy this sort of thing is for people to beleive this sort of of thing and consider themselves "expert" patients. Truly a little knowledge is a perilous thing! And that misinformed patient blogs their socks off and the virus spreads!
  11. Come now Robert, surely like me you deal with this on a daily basis, patients who have been reading on the internet and come in and tell you that they think they've got X wrong with them, and they need Y treatment, when in reality they have got nothing of the kind. Love 'em to bit's especially when they come in with a print out of their history and then some pages from "arch supports R us". However, how much can we apply "a little knowledge is a perilous thing" to members of our own profession when it comes to foot orthoses? I said something like this once before and Dave Kingston used it for his tag line: "too many people in it for the money who haven't got a clue"

    "Sing it
    Sing my, sing my song
    We sing the same old song loud"
    U2- Treasure (whatever happened to Pete the Chop?)

    More to the point, whatever happened to Dave Kingston? (is it love?)
  12. deco

    deco Active Member

    More to the point, whatever happened to Dave Kingston? (is it love?)[/QUOTE]

    it sure is, and he will have his hands full in a couple of months with a new addition to the Kingston Clan;)
  13. it sure is, and he will have his hands full in a couple of months with a new addition to the Kingston Clan;)[/QUOTE]

    Thought it might be, that's another good drinking and thinking man down the road of parent-hood, where will it end? This human-race thing? Who'd have it?

    Send him my congratulations, love and best wishes for the future :drinks
  14. This is a deeply depressing thread!

    If we're doing song lyrics...

    Tears for fears

    "I find it hard to tell you, I find it hard to take,
    When people run in circles it's a very very

    Mad world"

    However I prefer the bible

    For the time will come when men will not abide sound docterine, but instead, to suit their own desires will gather to them a great number of teachers to tell them what their itching ears want to hear!

    Clever guy was Paul. It's easy to find someone who, for a price, will tell you what you want to hear!

  15. Dave Kingston

    Dave Kingston Member

    Heah Simon et al...

    I had my fertility issues resovled by some super dooper insoles I got on the interweb :dizzy: and along with moving home and the new baby on the way I don't have time to vist any of the pi**ups, I mean conferences, at the moment LOL. Craig even cancelled his thingy that I'd wangled a pass for.

    BTW Deco just had his own (2nd) bundle of joy arrive recently.

    Hope you and the missus are enjoying parenthood too.

    As for as being a loss to the world of 'bar proping'...lets just call it a hiatus ;)


    PS - Signature restored just for you Spooner :)
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2009
  16. Not depressing. My glass is usually half-full, except when it needs re-filling. Who's round is it anyway? Nice quote. All we need now is to work out what exactly is the "sound doctrine"and who are the "false prophets". I guess it depends on the "book" you believe in.

    From the bible, psalm 40 was always one of my favourites, for obvious reasons, closely followed by revelation 6 for equally predictable reasons.;)

    The problem, as I see it, is when it comes to religion many have only ever read one book. See the analogy yet??????

    My point is that our point of view is based on our education, if we have only ever read one "good" book, we can only ever have one point of view. Perhaps the lack of breadth in our reading is what is wrong with the world. Moreover, are we happy to take financial reward and gratification from surrounding ourselves with those who are willing to pay to hear what we have to preach..... "to tell them what their itching ears want to hear". John said: "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone" Anyone here want to start throwing stones?

    Too deep for a Wednesday?

    Probably best to keep religion out of Podiatry Arena ;-/)
  17. I'll hold ya to that one. Good luck big fella. Parent-hood will knock the corners off ya' if nothing else.. See you soon.:D
  18. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Why did the aforesaid PCIs not cure the poster's inability to spell or to write grammatically?

    Has the universal panacea failed?

    I did not receive a copy of the spam, but I bet I do now!

  19. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    This has got even funnier. I just got sent this message:
    I just told him to go see a lawyer. He has the address for legal documents. We been there done that before.
  20. robby

    robby Active Member

    I have just visited Prof Rothbart's website and he is now treating people at long distance!

    astonishing that he can do that without seeing the patient, but talking to them over the telephone, and what a surprise! you have to register with paypal before you can make the call!

    he claims to use sophisticated algorythms to 'cure' and treat people.
    amazing what he can do!!
  21. David Wedemeyer

    David Wedemeyer Well-Known Member

    I just saw where a chiropractor credited Rothbart as a source in his article Orthotic Support for Functional Scoliosis for one of our very pedestrian monthlies. Apparently Rothbart's insoles have not produced any measurable increase in discretionary cerebral function amongst my colleagues. :bang:

    Are emails subject to copyright laws? Ha, ha that is very, very funny Admin!
  22. Only the really SECRET ones ;).
  23. BEN-HUR

    BEN-HUR Well-Known Member


    Grow up Sam... & do some research!

    I too received (obtained) a pair of PCI's from an osteopath (???)... so I could look into this snake oil ('cure all' :pigs:) insole for myself.

    It is hardly professional... & hardly rivalry ("rivavly"???).

    What's the bet Sam (if that is his real name) is a disgruntled osteopath? Anyway, just a thought.
  24. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    As a relatively new and therefore emotionally distant observer of this ongoing farse (each act represented by a different thread) I watch with interest as you are all manipulated, shaken into a frenzy, used and abused by an 'expert'.

    I wonder why he seems so able to play with your emotions while at the same time not apparently becoming emotionally involved himself?

    Bill Donaldson
  25. DaVinci

    DaVinci Well-Known Member

    Bill - Have you read all the Rothbart threads and the things he is claiming? Have you seen the one on increasing fertility? The one on diabetic ulcers? Have you seen the one where he gets all his friends to post testimonials, yet they all constantly fail to answer even the basic questions about the research? Do you have any respect for anyone who names a foot type after themself? I not surprised people get worked up. People like that need to be removed from the gene pool.
  26. I find it reassuring. This kind of thing is insideous. Have you seen the wiki page for "biomechanics"? Proprioceptive insoles get as much coverage as "real" biomechanics. Brian is a master of making the absurd sound plausible. As a profession we ignore that kind of thing at our peril.

    Besides, many of the people who get excited by this are the people who are creating, or are instrumental in creating, the evidence based "proper" models. No surprise to see them upset when someone so casually and utterly ignores the rules of evidence and science and indeed good taste. I have little respect for anyone who claims their insoles made a downs syndrome child "look normal".

    For the rest, I see it as a wholesome level of enthusiasm for what we do.

    There is a saying, a lie can run around the world before the truth has laced its trainers. Convenient, reductionist cynical medicalisation is as appealing to the masses as it is harmful. Those of us whole guard the complex and inconveniant truths SHOULD do so jealously and with passion.

    To paraphrase "All that is needful for evil for triumph is for good men to be apathetic"

  27. Sammo

    Sammo Active Member

    Kevin, :good:

    Just wanted to say that this is a great song choice for the Brian Rothbart vs. Podiatry arena story..... also: great band, great album..


    Gonna listen to the who for my commute to the pub tonight!
  28. Sam:

    Been listening to Tommy for the last few days.....makes me feel young again! The Who....one of the greatest rock bands of all time!!
  29. wdd

    wdd Well-Known Member

    It seems to me that much of the rage, frustration, etc generated, whenever the name 'Rothbart' appears, comes from the fact that he isn't playing the 'game', ie he has adopted the guise of rational thinker and upholder of the scientific method but is actively promoting magical thinking. Of course adopting magical thinking, attempting to rationalise it and promoting it as fact , gaining status and wealth from it is not a new game.

    In the short term magical thinking is undoubtedly far more attractive than the scientific method but in the end rationality always wins through - doesn't it?

    Think flat earth. Think sun revolving around the earth. Think polytheism. Think creationism. Think monotheism. Think homeopathy. OK maybe rationality doesn’t win through in the short term but give it a few hundred years or so and I am convinced that ‘Rothbart’ at least won’t be the problem he is to-day.

    Maybe in the mean time we can put the focus back on ourselves and ask how much of our emotional response to’ Motheart’ reflects our own magical thinking.

    Just believe (oops!) that everything will come right in the end.

    Bill Donaldson
  30. drscouse

    drscouse Member

    And here was me thinking I would be having a dull morning...and then Podiatry Arena Weekly Update lands in my inbox ..... Thank you !!

    Only one comment....


    Well, that has done wonders for his walk, balance and mental clarity, toe walking gone, balance great, gross motor activies improved, show wearing evenly etc. Blood flow has been increased as he is more alert and active. Small toe is no longer squashed under pressure.

    Me needs me some of these then .... may help my ability to do the Suduko today !!

    Research methods, correct science or honest professionalism aside - these claims are just well.....( Insert Word Here !) :confused:
  31. Dikoson

    Dikoson Active Member


    Hope you are well....been too long

    I'm glad you feel young again!

    Had a patient today with talo-navicular OA with a rothbart special today.... pain has got alot worse since being rothbarted (verb. meaning treated with one finger in the air utilising unexplained biomechanical wishes with unlimited promises and a dented paypal account).

    Patient now has reduced pain, clinical treatment was using it as a doorstop!!

    They really do work.....when you remove them! (I know its anecdotal, but as a single patient study its quite conclusive)

    My rothbarted patient has now improved massively!!

  32. Simon:

    Hadn't heard from you for awhile so I didn't know what happened to you. Hopefully, all is well. Still remember having three Simons all sitting down to eat a meal with me (Dickinson, Bartold, and Spooner).....just can't remember exactly when or where that occurred. PFOLA??:confused:
  33. Dikoson

    Dikoson Active Member

    I believe it was PFOLA in Boston!! I'm sure Mr Spooner will confirm
  34. Little Italy Boston, followed by Martini's and aerodynamic experiments in the hotel bar- five years ago. Alison was carrying Grace and it was freezing. By the end of the night I was shaken, not stirred.

    As I recall Prof. Kirby this was also the scene of our discussion on how only active tissues can generate force, not inert tissues... as well you know.

    Seems like yesterday :drinks

    P.S. I have a theory that parenthood warps time, since Grace was born in my mind time has just accelerated. Got to go to a meeting tomorrow at the local school as she starts there in January.
  35. Ian Linane

    Ian Linane Well-Known Member

    "P.S. I have a theory that parenthood warps time, since Grace was born in my mind time has just accelerated. Got to go to a meeting tomorrow at the local school as she starts there in January."

    Oh dear, the slippey slope has started. Eventually you even begin to find yourself agreeing with some of the things your own mum and dad said to you :eek:

    All mine are through this now and I cannot think where 27 years of child rearing has gone! Would not swap any of it though and they are now 3 of my best friends.
    Enjoy each moment, good and difficult, Simon.

  36. Got the latest Newsletter today. Always cheers me up.


    I couldn't help but notice Brian has awarded himself a new title!

    Which led me here


    Happy Christmas Ian! That one is just for you (knowing your love for these types of websites). I was going to buy you the "introductory seminar" DVD. Once you've watched that you could take the level one certification (48 hours training) which would qualify you to use proprioceptive insoles. But Then I saw that the DVD is 375 EUROS!!!

    Which is a lot for a practical joke.


    PS. for anyone who does not want to pay 375 for the DVD and spend 48 hours and who knows how much for the training, these insoles are available mail order from the UK distributor, Alex Catto.
  37. Further to my last, Posture control insoles, the actualy means of treatment for proprioceptive therapy come in two flavours, 3.5mm and 6mm.

    Here is what The UK distributor says

    And here is the website for the patients to do their own assessment.


    Should someone tell Brian?

  38. **** it, I'm having a pair to help me with my walking backwards for Christmas project. If they don't, I'll get my money back anyway. How much are they BTW?
  39. A snip at £55.

    Of course you'll need to be assessed by someone who has done the training, else the might give you the 3.5 microwedge instead of the 6mm. Or vice versa. Could be a disaster!

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