Welcome to the Podiatry Arena forums

You are currently viewing our podiatry forum as a guest which gives you limited access to view all podiatry discussions and access our other features. By joining our free global community of Podiatrists and other interested foot health care professionals you will have access to post podiatry topics (answer and ask questions), communicate privately with other members, upload content, view attachments, receive a weekly email update of new discussions, access other special features. Registered users do not get displayed the advertisements in posted messages. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our global Podiatry community today!

  1. Sponsored Content: The Interpod Keystone for measuring supination resistance. Read about it here for more.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Have you considered the Clinical Biomechanics Boot Camp Online, for taking it to the next level? See here for more.
Dismiss Notice
Do you get the weekly newsletter that Podiatry Arena sends out to update everybody? If not, click here to organise this.

Starting a career as a foot health practioner?

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Podalog, Oct 22, 2011.

  1. Podalog

    Podalog Member


    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    I trained as a podiatrist and grduated with a BSc and I am at the moment an HPC registered podiatrist. However I can't find employment and starting my own business isn't feasible at the moment.

    I am thinking about starting a private business as a foot health practioner as it would be cheaper than running one as a podiatrist.

    If there are any foot health practioners on this forum, I would be very interested if you could point me to some resources for the legal and practical aspects of being a foot health practioner

    Thanks
     
  2. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    Hello podalogue,
    i am somewhat confused by your questions. I wonder if you have really thought this through?

    Why would you think that it was any cheaper to practice as an FHP rather than a pod? :confused: If you can't start your own business as a pod why do you think you would be able to start one as a FHP?

    I would suggest that the first thing you do is to contact the HPC, investigate the mechanism for de-registering and the implications of that. Then decide if you want to throw away 3 years of study to join the unregulated sector.

    regards

    Catfoot

    PS Anyone can get a job in Podiatry if they are prepared to relocate.
    PPS Being an FHP is not a "career", it is a dead end job that leads nowhere. If anyone has told you differently then they are taking the Mickey.
     
  3. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    This kind of attitude kind of bemuses me when graduate podiatrists have all sorts of made up titles that they think enables them to enter a new scope of practice without any real formal qualification in that field. (NB and EG - at a recent conference on diabetic foot care they showed with research that there are over 400 different job titles in the NHS that infer that a podiatrist is an advanced specialist in diabetes care and yet only a tiny minority of clinicians have any post graduate qualifications to back up any purported 'advanced' skills) At the same time as they say they don't want anyone entering or competing with their profession without a degree qualification and yet half of them don't want to do, or would even despise the idea of doing, the very basics of the job that actually defines who they are professionally. They enter these skill areas with only half an idea about what they are doing and yet woe betide to anyone who thinks they can ,or would even be proud to, care for routine foot problems without a degree.

    I say, Shut up and take the log from your own eye before you remove the speck from anothers.


    Dave Smith
     
  4. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

     
  5. blinda

    blinda MVP

    I agree with the first part of your response, CF; It would not be any cheaper to practice as an FHP (other than the obvious saving of regulatory fees of approx 35 squid a month) and it certainly wouldn`t be any easier to start up business as an FHP either.

    But, (and you knew that was coming, didn`t you;)) I would disagree that Podalog would be "throwing away 3 years of study". You can`t forget everything you have learnt at uni just because you decide to set up a practice which does not require the use of LA, POMs or recognition by private medical insurers. Let`s face it, many pods don`t utilise these either (and have no interest in extending our scope of practice :bang: ), so what sets them apart from FHP`s in day to day practice? I guess they must have thrown away their 3 years of study too.

    Which leads nicely to another shameless plug for ALL PODS IN THE UK to take advantage of the opportunity to push the boundaries in our scope of practice and heighten the profile of pods by completing the attached document on line (or post it to the DH), if you haven`t already done so, with the addition (or substitution, if you don`t wish to utilise the suggested wording helpfully supplied by Dr Alan Borthwick), of your own words in the response sections prior to the closing date of 8 December 2011. It would be advantageous for us ALL to promote this document to our colleagues, Doctors, Patients and other health professionals to help support our quest for Independent Prescribing for Podiatrists.

    If anyone has any questions regarding this process, Dr Borthwick is happy for any questions to be sent direct to him on one of the following email addresses; ab12@soton.ac.uk or meds@scpod.org. Further info found here; http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Consultation...ions/DH_129981

    Yeah, stuck record that`s me.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    David Smith,
    Do you have any evidence to back up what you postulate? viz :-

    "This kind of attitude kind of bemuses me when graduate podiatrists have all sorts of made up titles that they think enables them to enter a new scope of practice without any real formal qualification in that field. (NB and EG - at a recent conference on diabetic foot care they showed with research that there are over 400 different job titles in the NHS that infer that a podiatrist is an advanced specialist in diabetes care and yet only a tiny minority of clinicians have any post graduate qualifications to back up any purported 'advanced' skills) At the same time as they say they don't want anyone entering or competing with their profession without a degree qualification and yet half of them don't want to do, or would even despise the idea of doing, the very basics of the job that actually defines who they are professionally. They enter these skill areas with only half an idea about what they are doing and yet woe betide to anyone who thinks they can ,or would even be proud to, care for routine foot problems without a degree."

    Or is it just sour grapes from a Grandparented who has never worked in the NHS ?

    Your next comment :-

    "I say, Shut up and take the log from your own eye before you remove the speck from anothers."

    Is not only rude but out-of-order and you, Belinda, are also out-of-order to complimenting the post.

    What are you David Smith? Some kind of latterday John the Baptist ??

    I have spent this afternoon involved with this :-

    http://www.kingjamesbibletrust.org/events

    celebrating the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible where each church in the area reads a part of the Bible.

    I've had a surfeit of Ezikial but maybe Matthew 7.1 is just about right for you.

    So stick that in your thurible and ignite it.

    Yours etc

    Catfoot
     
  7. cornmerchant

    cornmerchant Well-Known Member

    David- your initial post to catfoot was rather aggressive and as far as I am concerned was a non sequitor- I cant make sense of it, maybe thats just me, but it seems unjustified. That said, the second of your posts actually offered good advice.

    Podalog- I agree with catfoots sentiments , it is a job rather than a career as there is no way you can become anything more than an FHP-the proof of that is the huge number of practitioners out there who make a living but must have a very limited job satisfaction. Whether it could be considered an appropriate pathway for a pod who has trained and become registered and regulated is another matter- would your integrity actually allow you to practise below the gold standards to which you have been trained? I ask this as you state that you consider it cheaper to set up in business as an FHP than a pod- does this mean that you would be prepared to cut corners? Podiatry is a career although it is better described as a profession, in which the scope for specialisation is huge. Here is one area that I agree with Belinda, we should all be promoting the profession regardless of whether we personally will utilise all the modalities within it.

    I gather that it is quite a tedious proceedure to drop your HPC registration and then want to take it up again. If you have the qualification then you may as well start as you mean to go on- in the deep end ,with the respect of your colleagues and peers and the confidence of the general public.

    I do hope you reconsider, gaining a degree in podiatry is a wonderful achievement

    Cornmerchant
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2011
  8. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    Catfoot

    Yeah, I thought you'd be back in no time gripping and whinging.

    It never ceases to amaze me how some people think it is quite alright to be as rude as they like about one group of people they think are fair game and then get all upset when they get a bit of their own medicine in return. The evidence you ask for is contained in your own bigoted comments about FHP's, rubbishing their integrity, their choice of career, and the way you perceive they conduct themselves in it.

    Thanks for the compliment!

    No! I never planned to work in the NHS, I planned to have a chiropody business and now I run a very successful High Street Podiatry and Biomechanics business that doesn't appear to have any dead ends yet. I see 40% more customers per week this year and sales are up 50% on last year. I take great pleasure in resolving foot pain each and every day. I managed to do a masters degree while doing this and got a paper published in JAPMA but I can't take much credit there because that was only because Simon Spooner held my hand and kept kicking me up the rrrs. Currently we are considering our role in the implementation of the Health and social care bill and Clinical commissioning. Have you checked out how your skills can be assessed, evaluated and justified? Oh dear! we old grandparents might be nicking your job if we get it right eh! perhaps your career is looking down a cul de sac. NICE one.

    Brilliant! but what's the relevance?

    As for Judging, you started it.

    Aggressive? Well I was offended by her superior attitude and ill considered comments.
    Unconnected, Doesn't follow??
    Maybe!

    Dave
     
  9. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    David Smith,

    Please re-read your response to me and then it will be clear which one of us is doing the "griping and whining."

    "The evidence you ask for is contained in your own bigoted comments about FHP's, rubbishing their integrity, their choice of career, and the way you perceive they conduct themselves in it."

    I can only comment on the FHPs I know about and because of personal experience cannot speak lowly enough about any of them.

    Do you have any fried fish to match the chip on that other shoulder ?

    No actually I didn't. You brought up planks of wood and beams in the eye etc etc.

    So now you want to stifle free speech on this forum? Hmmmm

    Catfoot

    PS If you wish to emulate John the Baptist you might like to consider how your head would look on a charger .......:D
     
  10. George Brandy

    George Brandy Active Member

    Come on, calm down guys. Remember you cannot see facial expressions nor can you see the body language whilst these differing opinions are jollied about.

    To Podalog. You have a Bachelor of Science degree. Shouldn't this be regarded as opening a gateway to many careers that require none specific tertiary educated personnel? Wouldn't this be a better career approach to consider rather than trying to set up any business? You did say that starting your own business at the moment isn't feasible. Advise has also shown that starting a footcare business whether as a Podiatrist or a FHP is very similar in cost.

    Belinda, may I pick you up on something...you said

    I am puzzled by your opinion here. I understand that you are plugging the Independent Prescribing Consultation and encouraging everyone to sign it. Long term, it may extend our scope of practice in certain settings. Certainly short term it will improve the access to immediate prescribing for our colleagues who have taken a narrow field of practice and specialised in one given area. Education and learning has its benefits definitely but putting it into practice, is it really just an art form? It is one which certainly the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists ignores totally in favour of pushing the educational boundaries. I cannot speak for the other professional bodies.

    Surely an extension to ones scope of practice is planning, executing and perhaps eventually expanding a high street practice or a country based practice where you may not entirely use your skill base learned in the University setting? Is it not a recognised extension to your scope and abilities to become an employer of a whole team of staff where you hand over responsibility to others for the day to day practice of Podiatry?

    Podalogs post highlights a fundamental lack of appreciation of the business aspects of Podiatry in the commercial setting and please don't use the "well I did it and set up my own business". That would be most unhelpful. Increasing ones "scope of practice" is more than just gaining a bit more education, it is actually having the support and confidence, learning and skill to take forward podiatry in a difficult commercial environment right from day one. This is something I believe the professional bodies ignore constantly as do the universities.

    I therefore ask you, Belinda, not to condemn those who do not utilise LA or perhaps don't hold POMs certificates. If you are practicing within a setting where you cannot gain the experience to maintain fitness to practice these skills then it is more appropriate to refer. In my opinion it is more important to recognise these short comings of commercial practice than accuse a colleague of throwing away 3 years of study.

    GB
     
  11. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Well GB, Ive heard it all now:rolleyes:

    I have suffered at your hands, your two partners in crime and others for 24 years being slagged off at every opportunity for doing just that:bang:

    In private practice you learn to do what works for you, Dave did , Bel did , I did all at different levels but with the same successful practice outcome. I chose not to work for the NHS as well and I'm glad I did because i haven't the NHS mindset to patients that many have towards the patients eg If it wasn't for the patients it wouldn't be a bad job" and the resulting disgraceful patient care that comes with it with some pods.

    Podalog, my advice is research your patient base and do what you feel is right.

    Good luck whichever way you go with it:drinks

    Cheers
    d;)
     
  12. George Brandy

    George Brandy Active Member

    Derek,

    OK. You missed the points totally.

    Maintaining fitness to practice is an essential part of every podiatrists remit. I do not see that pointing this out as an attack on you. I personally have had no experience in high risk podiatry. I have forged close links with those that have. I would not dream of attempting to treat a child with biomechanical issues. I regard myself as not fit in these aspects of practice. For someone else it may mean that LA is not practiced often enough to maintain fitness to practice. This is not about skill loss, its about progression.

    But my post was not about me, Belinda, Dave, Catfoot or anyone else. It was not an attack on Belinda and hopefully she will see at as an expansion of the debate which was getting somewhat off course.

    Running a business is one hellishly complicated venture especially for graduates new to the profession, even in its simplest format of a domiciliary practice. In my opinion starting a business - which in our profession is called a private practice - is an advancement of ones scope of practice and therefore should be seen as such, acknowledged as such by our respective professional bodies and graduates (or whatever you choose to call those attempting to start a business) supported in business.

    A BSc should enable Podalog to gain rightful graduate employment but not necessarily as a podiatrist. Is a BSc in Podiatry acknowledge as such by prospective employers - I don't know. Do others? Its one avenue Podalog could explore to commence earning whilst promoting himself/herself in the Edinburgh area as a sessionalist Podiatrist in the private sector for evening and weekend work.

    If you wish to take my posting personally Derek, then so be it. I just don't understand why.

    GB
     
  13. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Catfoot; I happen to agree with Dave`s sentiment; You are incredibly rude to posters when the `U` word (unregulated) crops up, yet cry “out of order” when a response is made in kind to you. Just an observation.
    Indeed. Knowing Dave as I do, I`d put by bottom dollar on him grinning from ear to ear right now. Tinker.

    George, I think you misunderstood my post. I do not “condemn”, nor “accuse anyone of throwing away 3 years of study” for not utilising their LA or POM qualification. Many of my friends and colleagues don`t, for the reasons that you outlined, and they often refer cases which require these to me. Personally, if I wasn`t using these, I wouldn`t bother to register with the HPC, but that`s just my opinion. But, seeing as I do, I remain regulated (I can call myself a podiatrist, yay) and encourage referral pathways from both my pod colleagues and the unregulated sector (which includes FHPs, reflexologists, pedicurists and anyone else that is fortunate enough to find someone else’s foot literally in their hands) but that`s by the by. The OP was asking whether it would be financially advantageous to cease being regulated by the HPC in private practice. My response is; not really.

    However, as I said, if you`re not going to use LA, prescribe POMS or want to be recognised by private medical insurers, then I would question the need to be regulated by the HPC. Your BSc qualification will enable you to obtain indemnity insurance and professional body membership. The former being mandatory, the latter I question.

    Podolog has already graduated with a BSc, congratulations BTW and sorry to talk about you as if you are not in the room....does he take sugar?
    Agreed. 100%.
    Again, I agree 110%. Wouldn`t dream of saying "I did it, cos I got myself an education". I have been in PP for ten years and, from my experience, the Society does not appear to support the private practitioner (In a former life I was an advisor to small business ventures in the banking industry, but I digress). I apologise in advance for going off topic, but a prime example of this is their perceived lack of objection to my local NHS trust which has displayed posters in all the health centres for a “Fee Paying Podiatry Service” ;

    http://www.solent.nhs.uk/ServiceCatInfo.asp?id=209

    The bullet point which irks me the most on the poster is “Are you paying expensive fees?” Followed by the unrealistic advertised fees of treatment offered at £10.00. Private practitioners in Hampshire cannot compete with this and are closing shop as a direct result of this advertising campaign. Remind me again of why we pay our professional body fees?

    Cheers,
    Bel
     
  14. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    GB, I'm not taking it personally I'm just gobsmacked at the hipocracy of your post after your "hang em high" mindset of the past to any that had not got LA cert's ect.
    Dave Bel and the rest are quite capable of making their own replies and I am not doing it for them but just you have a very short memory GB, Very short
    Cheers
    D;)
     
  15. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    I agree with you there Bel, I have Pods FHP's, nails studio's charging that for foot care, arriving on a motobike for a dom visit all cash only and when the screw up,the GP's recommend me to sort out the problem and guess what some of them STILL moan about my fee but say "oooh ive never seen a surgery like this so clean and all this equipment".............:bang:

    I havent put my fee's up for 4 years as there STILL is no one locally who is chargeing, anything like the same, so I really dont see the difference in FHP Pod or anyone else in the footcare industry. Its all about market forces and in the current economic climate, most is driven by price, but all of us in private practice know podiatry CANNOT be done properly at £10 a time!!!

    Cheers
    D;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011
  16. George Brandy

    George Brandy Active Member

    __________________

    Evidence please.

    GB
     
  17. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    GB
    If you think I have the time or the interest to go back over the boring them and us threads that are repeatedly posted on this site by you and your buddies then you are mistaken.

    Look at it as reflective practice...AND FIND THEM YOURSELF !!

    We both know what my point is so stop playing games and man up:rolleyes:

    I'm not about to turn this thread into another defence of a personal attack from you and yours for my training and practice, if that is where it is going again :wacko:

    YOU show me the evidence of those allegations you and yours have made in the past first and please dont generalise be specific and have your lawyer ready if you make any mistakes:butcher:

    Nothing personal just really fed up with the same old same old and trying to stop it going there AGAIN.
    Cheers
    D;)
     
  18. George Brandy

    George Brandy Active Member

    Derek,

    I simply asked for evidence to back up your accusation as I do not hold bigoted opinions. Thankfully Craig stores all posts made by myself so those that do want to check out George Brandy's opinions and past debates can do so.

    I seriously do not know where you are coming from and to levy a threat of lawyers against me regarding my recent and only posts of the last few weeks has left me speechless.

    If I offend you so much, lets leave it at that.

    I apologise to Podalog for the way this thread has deteriorated. I hope my posts have helped and I do understand and appreciate the difficulties in finding employment at the moment. Good luck with your future wherever it lies.

    GB
     
  19. George Brandy

    George Brandy Active Member

    Belinda

    Thank you for your response. I acknowledge your points and would have liked to debate them further given the way you have presented them. I fear this would cause Derek further angst and the last thing I wish to do is upset him further.

    I hope others will explore whether it is worthwhile being HPC registered if you do not utilise LA or POMs within your practice. It could prove an interesting debate.

    GB
     
  20. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member


    PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE :D:D:D

    Have a PROPER debate GB without the sideswipes and inuendo.ask Craig for your posting history and take a long hard look ??

    Get on with what this thread is about and give Podolog the help he/ she is looking for .

    BUT

    I will be watching :rolleyes:

    Cheers
    D;)
     
  21. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Tease. ;)

    G`night all.
     
  22. David Smith

    David Smith Well-Known Member

    Del, Bel, :good: and even GB there are some good point that are worth discussing but I think there is too much friction here

    Catfoot

    I absolutely can assure you that there are no chips. Any way I haven't got any shoulders:D DoH!

    [​IMG]

    Even in this state you can't keep your hands off me can you eh! no you can't!;)

    Bearing in mind your foot note - I Just draw your attention to this

    http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showthread.php?t=70700&highlight=kill

    Oh Dear!:butcher:

    Dave Smith

    PS and NB CF this is a light hearted apology for upsetting you.
     
  23. Hi Folks Moderator Mike here,

    as a way of keeping this thread open and nice and where maybe it achieves something, it would be an idea not to refer to people in your posts.

    ie Mike your an idiot or Mike as a FHP you .......

    might be better by saying I don´t agree with the FHP fits a purpose in basic foot health care for the following reasons .

    :D


    In that way people can´t take things personally but the issue can be discussed.

    Just an idea

    Clearly the OP brings up some important issues re the future of foot palliative (or General Podiatry or whatever you want to call it.) care in the UK. with less NHS funding etc

    anyways

    Carry on
     
  24. Catfoot

    Catfoot Well-Known Member

    OK M Weber- point taken.

    David Smith,
    You post made me bust myself laughting. I'm not too sure I would like to be compared to Salome who was the Biblical equivalent of today's strippers/pole dancers.....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salome

    I much prefer the character of the Jewess heroine Judith who saved her city by beheading the enemy general

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Beheading_Holofernes


    So shall we move on and try and get thread back on track to help the OP?

    Podolog says that he/she can't get a job, so I have some ideas for you Podolog

    You can get a job. There are loads of jobs out there to be had, maybe not in Podiatry, but there are still jobs.

    When I was setting up my present business I took part-time work in all sorts of areas, stocking shelves at Tesco's, waiting tables, cleaning out hotel rooms etc.. Taking a part-time temporary job tells your prospective employer that you are willing to work and that you are adaptable. It looks better on your CV than a blank.
    Obtaining a degree is a great achievement, but it doesn't stop there. It doesn't guarantee you a job, that's something you have to work at.

    I would recommend the book "Great Answers to tough interview questions" by Martin John Yate ISBN 0-7494-3552-6
    This covers everything about job-hunting from preparing a CV, to attending interviews and more importantly how to get those interviews.

    I apologise if you think I am stating the obvious but jobhunting is a skill that needs to be learned. You wouldn't attempt to enucleate a corn without training would you? The same principle applies.

    There are jobs advertised on the SCP site, the institute of Chiropodists & Podiatrists site, the NHS Jobsite and also on (dare I say it 'thatfootsite' http://www.thatfootsite.com/jobs/jobs.php )

    I hope that helps.

    I also hope we can get back to some useful discussion.

    regards

    Catfoot

    PS Now where did I put that charger ...?
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
  25. Veronica Wright

    Veronica Wright Welcome New Poster

    As I have from the experience of the other colleagues, a sports assistance can be a great opportunity.
     
Loading...

Share This Page