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The wonder stuff

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by Simon Spooner, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. Here I was wondering why a band was being discussed in the Biomechancis section. The wonder stuff Poison :D

    Sounds interesting if graphene is 20 % flexible how does that compare to Poly etc ?
     
  2. blinda

    blinda MVP

    You pipped me to the post, again! Good band :drinks

    Interesting, if you`re into that kind of thing. Let`s hope it doesn`t take 30 years to become available.....
     
  3. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

  4. Interesting stuff!

    I can't see it changing the world of in shoe orthoses that much. Yes you could make it thinner and stronger, but most people can accomodate a 3mm thick bit of poly without too many difficulties. And of course where an insole has edges, thin is another word for sharp...

    I can see more applications for things like AFOs and other external joint supports though.

    I remember Carbon fibre was going to set the world alight because it was thinner (per unit stiffness), stronger and more durable than poly. After a brief affair with it, I returned to Poly. I know I'm not the only one.
     
  5. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    I hope not Rob, the article states" they are expecting to be able to roll up your mobile phone and put it behing your ear" if it develops as planned.

    Knowing you and your mobile , you wont have anything to hang your glasses on if your not careful !!!:D


    Cheers
    D;)
     
  6. LMEarO
     
  7. OK, Johnny Negative; thin isn't another word for sharp if you roll the edges over to form a brim (loving the word brim tonight) and this material could provide ridiculous thickness to weight ratios. But hey, welcome to the cheap seats...

    http://www.muzu.tv/gb/thewonderstuff/welcome-to-the-cheapseats-music-video/234736/

    "Going down on me, surrounding me spilling over the brim". The baby is 20 years old. Hey Judas, come on... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=115b_xOjLpY&feature=related

    Everybody having a good time?
     
  8. Sorry I've not brimmed over with ideas (do you see what I did there ;))

    Here's a positive. I wonder what applications this stuff could have in surgery? Eh? What about them apples?
     
  9. Orthican

    Orthican Active Member

    I can see this employed most definetly in the AFO, KAFO realm very nicely. The biggest complaint over most other variables is bulk. We try to make things as thin and light but strong as we can for a given individual but even then the patient will say "it's quite bulky isn't it?" This is when I use 3mm sub ortholene. I would love to play with this material in my lab.
     
  10. Phil3600

    Phil3600 Active Member

    I read that article and the first thing that popped in my head was what it could do for bikes not orthotic materials . Maybe I need a career change. A nice slim top and bottom tube could slim things down a bit my current bike is 'the size of a cow'.
     
  11. Thank goodness you didn't add that you're from Toronto to the end of your tag!! ;)
     
  12. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    I think the possibiliries of this "stuff" are mind boggling and endless in application to everyday life, ( would give a twist to the barefoot running debate for starters:D ).
    Tissue replacement , joint replacement the list is endless BUT only if it does what it says on the tin in the final analysis:rolleyes:

    Cheers

    D;)

    PS Perhaps it will make computer screens visable in sunshine and internet connections in country area's stop dropping out every few moments !!
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011
  13. Here is my advice after seeing such promises of revolutionary technology result in little practical use or true advance in technology: don't hold your breath waiting for this material to revolutionize your lives...or your patients' orthoses.
     
  14. steven boon

    steven boon Welcome New Poster

    Less of a concern that an Elephant or something the 'Size of a Cow' can balance on it, with or without a pencil....(gutted a missed out first on that song reference....don't you hate it when that happens....great band though).

    There are couple of questions I'd ask before rushing out and buying a batch....

    - Can I stick stuff to it?
    - How does it machine?
    - Is it conformable ? and
    - What temperature do you have to heat it to before vacuum moulding?

    As has been said earlier, new materials seldom make quantum leaps forward in terms of patient satisfaction, (or compliance for that matter). In my experience a tidy assessment, good clinical reasoning an accurate cast make for happy punters....and having a human relationship with your lab.

    I think Yazz and the Plastic People can rest easy for the time being!
     
  15. Phil Rees

    Phil Rees Active Member

    It's a little on the expensive side, a 100mm daimeter wafer is £1400
     
  16. MJJ

    MJJ Active Member

    No, it's extremely flexible and can be stretched by 20%. What good would an orthotic be if you can roll it up and stick it behind your ear?
     
  17. Orthican

    Orthican Active Member

    No not Toronto. I'm in the province of Alberta. Why?
     
  18. Humour fail. Never mind.
     
  19. blinda

    blinda MVP

  20. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    It's English humour allied to the London and Sarf-Eastern accent (where Isaacs resides). Orthi- Cant??

    At my grammar (secondary) school we had a teacher with the surname Hunt. Needless to say, he rapidly became known to all as 'Issac', so you could respond in kind!

    All the best

    Bill
     
  21. Orthican

    Orthican Active Member

    :D

    Orthican't <------ slow on the uptake! But now I'll be watchin ye closer sir Isaac! :D

    I think as well the teacher named Hunt might also be called Mike....
     
  22. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    In my former life and when you were allowed to have a sense of humour in the NHS, we used to get the new intake of nurses on that one.

    We would write out a fictitous card for the patient mr Mike Hunt and as the new girls were calling out the next patient name in reception we would give them the card and tell them to ask "has anybody seen Mike hunt".......It usually resulted in the whole of reception disolving in laughter along with the department who knew what we were up too.......childish pranks but happy days:D

    Cheers
    D;)
     
  23. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    Back in my early NHS days I tried a similar stunt on my Biomechanics team leader (whose job it was to triage all the referrals). I filled out a fictitous referral for Mr Rection. First name: Hugh. Middle Inital: G.

    If you're reading Ella - hope you remember! 8 years on and I'm still dining off of it ;)
     
  24. RobinP

    RobinP Well-Known Member

    Hugh Jarse
     
  25. Orthican

    Orthican Active Member

    :D I was thinking similar but different...Hugh Jass

    ...Al Koholech

    ....Molly Kewl

    .....
     
  26. reillyshoe

    reillyshoe Member

    This seems as good a place as any to ask the question, but I am in the process of patenting an additive to equine orthotics which changes the properties of the orthotic. It would seem that support and comfort are not synonomous- softer materials might equate to increased comfort, but at the expense of support. The same can be stated in reverse- more support might equate less comfort.

    Would a material with dynamic properties be considered advantageous? If it was softer at low force but resisted deformation under higher loads, would that make for a better orthotic?

    I have tested this on silicones, but I am currently assessing the effect on urethane. I would appreciate your thoughts on the general concept, or if I am misguided in my approach to orthotics. Intuitively, it seems that if support and comfort might be opposing factors, then a dynamic material might be advantageous.

    Thanks!
     
  27. Pat:

    Can't say I know too much about equine biomechanics. However, in the bipedal human, comfort doesn't always equate to better locomotion efficiency. An item added to a shoe that may uncomfortable may actually be more metabolically efficient for locomotion.

    For example, a spring-soled shoe may be less comfortable to run but may be more metabolically efficient due to the added strain energy from the spring. In addition, barefoot running may be more metabolically efficient due to less mass on the foot, but may produce injuries more frequently over time due to the added stress on the structural components of the foot which barefoot running causes.

    One must consider comfort, tendency to produce injury and metabolic efficiency when evaluating how a shoe or orthosis will affect the mechanics and physiology of locomotion in the bipedal human. I would imagine that the same thing could also be said for other mammals, such as horses.

    All you need now, Pat, for the farrier profession, is a book called: "Born to Gallop".:rolleyes:
     
  28. reillyshoe

    reillyshoe Member

    Kevin,
    The equine community has scooped you by 20 years. The book "Hope for Soundness" details the ideal natural hoof shape and the desired trim based upon environmental/genetic selection. We (farriers) have lived the current nightmare of the human podiatrist without resolution-barefoot or shod?

    If I look beyond "nature", the properties of orthotics (equine or human) have some universal appeal- soft is comfortable, but how soft is too soft? when is supportive too hard? Am I wrong to design orthotics with dynamic support? Would you want an orthotic to be more supportive at faster gaits when more support is incurred? Considering that (unlike human orthotics, which change based upon activity) equine orthotics are unchanged for 5-6 weeks at a time (rest, walking,high performance)?

    Thanks!

    Pat
     
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