Trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

Dennis


Can't even be bothered

Dave

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

In fairness Dave, thats Lewis Carroll - I'm something of a fan.
C S Lewis is the Lion, Witch, Wardrobe chap.

Otherwise, I think I rather agree with you......

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

Ah yes lewis carol, wrong lewis

Cheers dave

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

Dr H,--I should have been more specific. When I asked about the pronatory movement is the same shod or unshod. I meant the motion around the axis and planes of motion. To me, this motion is the same, only the ROM is different, I agree. That's why the methods of either the F-scan or matscan are equally valid in most ways. --Yes, I know sho technology has an effect on the pronation movement. But after all, it's still just the plantar surface of the foot making sensor contact. (I tried unsuccessfully to explain one of Newton's principles, but he couldn't get the concept re: the SDO)

The scans when evaluated show me that the planes of motion are the same, because I can see the diffence in a biomechanical orthotic and barefoot. I know what I want in the fit, because I can see the areas of high and low pressure that need to be biomechanically effected. Balancing the forefoot (at midstance), regardless of the pathology gives a very good representation of the biomechanical performance of that orthotic.--Looking at the motion moment by moment is also a very good way.

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

David S.--Of course you can't be bothered, I understand and feel for you. --Your technology defines biomechanics down to it's movement in force time integrals etc. You don't see the value in what the scans reveal about the functional biomechanics, in fact you don't see very important functions that I see. Other than a reduction in pressure in your scans, you didn't describe any significant biomechanics e.g. you completely left out your interpretation of the lateral column. I guess you can't be bothered to understand it's significance either. If you ever do, maybe then you can consider pronating or supinating the planes of motion at the tarsus. OR is that not the type of biomechanics you can be bothered with.

You better run David, you may think you won, but your patients lost.

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

Dennis, It's not about technology defining biomechanics it's about physics, physics defines biomechanics and is a constant to define the action of whatever technology you consider.

I can be bothered to understand physics more thoroughly, so Dennis, please tell me:
How do you pronate a plane of motion? What is your interpretation of the lateral column? What are the very important functions that you see? Enlighten me, I'm all ears.

Dave

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

David, Did you read the article? Did you not see (or read) the physics involved in the gait cycle with an sdo? If what you say physics defines biomechanics, than what about the physics of “hydrodynamics”? Why have you asked or said nothing about that? Is it because it doesn't work in your mind?

“physics defines biomechanics and is a constant to define the action of whatever technology you consider.”--what principles of physics are you using in your technology?

How do you pronate a plane of motion? For me, I reduce the fluid volume.

As for the interpretation of the lat column, I see it as hypermobile. What do you think?

Why do you suspect that you were able to reduce the pronation forces under mets 1-3 (and part of 4) and it's still blue under the 5th and part of the 4th?

Lastly what force (pronatory or supinatory) do you think you need to change to better balance the 4th and 5th at forefoot contact?

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

Dennis, the branch of physics that is relevant is Newtonian mechanics and hydrodynamic and fluid mechanics comes within that discipline. Newtonian laws define the relationship between force mass and motion and the action of the SDO is not outside that relationship. As you seem to disagree with this statement please explain how your SDO, and its action on the foot, does not conform to Newtonian principles.

Dave

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

Dennis in my opinion the term 'pronate a plane of motion' is meaningless

The planes of motion are contained within and defined by a 3D reference frame, in our case often the ground and or the leg. The planes of motion within this frame are typically orthogonal and known as saggital, coronal and frontal planes. The motion within those planes are either translational or rotational. The rotational motion (or displacement) in a given plane is defined by the angular displacement about the axis of the plane orthogonal to it.
Therefore: Pronation is a function of defined displacements within a known reference frame and the displacements are known or measurable deviations from the positions of the planes and axes fixed within the reference frame.

So therefore you cannot pronate a plane of motion any more than you can stretch a measuring tape to make the measurement fit the displacement. The change in displacement or motion is defined by the fixed position of the planes and axes. So to continue the analogy, if you stretch the tape, which is your 2D frame of reference, at the same rate as the change in linear displacement then the observed measurement will never change by comparison to your reference frame.

Dave

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

Dennis
The rest of your post from "I reduce the fluid volume" onwards is meaningless to me and so I can offer no answer

Dave

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

From your website pages Dennis:

igs::dizzy::bang:

Complete hogwash, even the simplest concept of what constitutes pronation is completely misrepresented. Who were the great 4 you studied under Dennis? Grouchy, Chico, Harpo and Zeppo?

DAVE

 

Re: SPAM: trouble getting patients to use custom orthotics

Dennis

in an earlier post you replied to my query:

Whatever 'technology' you purport to use Dennis, it's mode of action must conform to and be explainable by physics and in this case mechanics, Newtonian mechanics, in which I am far from being a lay person. (Which as I explained earlier is not separate from hydrodymanics, [definition of hydrodynamics is the consideration of mass force and motion of a fluid - Newtons laws describe the relationship of force, mass and motion on a body in this case a body of fluid] or dynamic viscosity or fluid mechanics) However I'll give you this one seeing as you are speaking in layman's terms then a force spreading out [over a greater area] is kind of intuitive even if not accurate.

But to qualify my statement - When we say spread the force what we actually mean is reduce the pressure. This may sound pedantic but read on. What I believe your alluding to in your writing however is the 'force integral', so for a given integral - reducing the peak force in magnitude must result in it increasing or expanding (spreading) over time. [NB even if the total time base does not increase the time base of the peak of interest within it will 'spread'. This however, is not spreading the force it is increasing the time base to reduce the force.

However when reducing the pressure by 'spreading the force' [as in the first sense i.e.over a greater area] we do not necessarily reduce the peak force or increase the time base.

The difference is worth noting I believe because otherwise you may believe that by reducing the pressure, by increasing the surface area contact between the foot orthotic interface, will spread the force integral, which it will not necessarily.

A practical example is: Standing 3 feet from a wall. lean on the wall with the palms of both hands for 5 seconds or do the same but with just one finger tip. The force is the same and the time base is the same but the pressure under your finger tip, you will feel by pain, will increased manifold.

I can't imagine though that any layman ever thought intuitively about force integrals and imagined a mound of force spread out over the tasty toast of time