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Undergraduate biomechanics teaching

Discussion in 'Teaching and Learning' started by Ian Drakard, Dec 9, 2011.

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  1. Ian Drakard

    Ian Drakard Active Member


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    I've been meaning to start this thread for a while but conversations at the SCP Harrogate conference a couple of weeks back have prompted it. I know it's been touched on before and I'm sure it will again.

    It was great to see Chris Nester give such a clear and concise presentation, and it was also encouraging to see so many people in the room who were very excited by it (if a little shocking to see how many it was entirly new to).

    However I had the opportunity to talk to a few people involved in undergraduate education and still found that teaching in some UK universities was still centred around (modified) Root with various other things thrown in as 'stuff you may also like to be aware of'. The justification seemed to be that it was felt necessary so new students had a common language with the profession when they came out.

    I personally don't get this approach- the rest of the profession is out of date so we must make sure the new guys are out of date or they won't be understood! I think it must be possible to teach to current evidence with enough historical perspective to allow professional intergration.

    I think as an undergraduate being taught something that will have to be unlearnt (especially if you're told it's not right while you're acually studying it) is pretty discouraging.

    Is this really the current state of things? Are there any current undergradate lecturers on here who can comment? Am I just way off? How are things approached elsewhere?
     
  2. blumley

    blumley Active Member

    im currently a student in the 2nd year, and we are taught root plus extras. TBH i agree with your points and i do find it slightly concerning that we will be going out into the world with outdated knowledge. Surely if we are given the most up to date knowledge in the subject then interest and passion among the students will be greater. Perhaps if their were people with more up to date knowledge willing to take students for extra placements? I would love this type of opportunity and I'm sure many other students would as well.
     
  3. Rob Kidd

    Rob Kidd Well-Known Member

    I taught biomechanics (for want of a better title) to students for 20 years at four universities on two continents. What I felt was perhaps my strong point (arrogant, I know), was looking at "Root theory" (for want of a better description), and separating was was decidedly "ordinary" from that which was a good story - and there in lies the rub, you see. Inside so-called Root theory, is a good story trying to get out - but dressed in so much "emperor with no clothes" that students found it very difficult to deal with. Much of it is clinically very valuable - if lacking in hard science. Chris's (and many others) work is great, and should not be ignored. What staff today have to do (I am retired), is to marry together the good bits of Root et al with current research. Hope this helps, Rob
     
  4. MaryEg

    MaryEg Welcome New Poster

    I have to say that after 4 years working post-uni, I completely agree with the sentiments expressed in your post Ian. That is pretty much exactly how I felt in graduating - that almost everything we had learnt biomechanically had been based in a large degree on Root's 'theory'. We learnt a few other paradigms for biomechanical treatment, but I never felt they were focused on. I came out very confused about what I was supposed to base my treatments on (and why), and what clinical tests needed to be conducted.

    I guess a lot of learning and deciphering had to come from post-uni training, reading and experience. I think the balance between learning the old and the new needs to be addressed better. Certainly we need to be aware of the past understanding, and be aware of how that fits in with new models of biomechanical treatment. I am not sure it is entirely helpful to set students out on a sea of "this is how it was - now there are a whole lot of new ideas too - try and work it out!" Biomechanics may be a bit like that, but I certainly would have appreciated more direction in beginning my podiatry career.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2011
  5. Ian Drakard

    Ian Drakard Active Member

    Plenty of people on here probably willing to let you come for extra placements if you're enthusiastic

    Rob I think that sounds a good deal better than the current syllabus that I was being told about- shame you're no longer teaching :drinks Shows it can be done then :D

    Exactly- most people are going to come out of uni feeling a bit at sea anyway. You really want to be building on the knowledge you've already aquired not having to deconstruct what you've only just been taught.

    With luck may be this discussion itself will be outdated in a few years- we'll see
     
  6. johntee721

    johntee721 Member

    I think it also depends a lot on which university you attend - in the UK anyway. When I was in my 3rd year we attended a lecture at Canonbury on biomechanics given by our lecturer at Cardiff. There were 3 other universities there and I was a bit shocked to learn that one of the uni's had had no theoretical biomech teaching up to that point!!!They had only got experience of biomech by doing placements.

    I count myself very lucky to have had two dynamic/enthusiastic tutors in this subject....
     
  7. Cameron

    Cameron Well-Known Member

    netizens

    I still believe the sub talar neutral paradigm is a no science nonsense and should only be examined as a scholar after the first principles of Newtonian physics have been mastered. As a doctrine it remains deceptive and oh so easy, to teach.

    Yours from exile
    toeslayer
     
  8. I agree with Mr Kippen in that probably the reason why the teaching of foot mechanics has not moved with the times is the ease of teaching what was taught before. If that is Root is for another day.

    The reason Ian I believe is laziness. It is a pain in the ass too change your teaching plan and people are using the - so they can communicate as an excuse imo.

    As you said teach root in an historical perspective I did and then moved onto modern ideas .
     
  9. Kenva

    Kenva Active Member

    Hi all
    At our university college, we are starting next semester with a new "interpretation" of podiatric biomechanics. It all starts with the discussion if Podiatric biomechanics is the correct term - in 'real life' your biomechanical examination is the cluster of interview, clinical examination, "measurements", gait analysis and decission making.

    The measurements which were handed to the students and described as biomechanical examination (mainly Root) actually were only part of the bigger picture...

    it all comes down to some kind of "podiatric classification" or quantification
    Root will be a part of the different approached given, but will not be the biggest part any more in the discourse made.

    We know that we are going to get some head wind, because the podiatrists in the field all work mainly with Root measurements. If they want to help students in their biomechanical examination during placements, there will be a 'gap' between the approach by students and practicing podiatrists...

    but we have to start somewhere right?

    cheers
     
  10. efuller

    efuller MVP

    In Root et al, there are some important truths and there is some confusion and some not fully thought through ideas. To be able to communicate with and educate your elders you will need to know their terminology. To educate them, or prevent them from trying to indoctrinate you, you have to know what is wrong with what they think. Some incorrect knowledge is out there, so you do need to know why it is incorrect or you may start to believe it yourself.

    There is a student mind set where you think that you can look in the back of the book for the right answer. Or you can ask your instructor what the right answer is. How does anyone know what the right answer is? This is one of the hardest parts of the transition from student to doctor. As doctor, you are expected to have the right answer. You have to figure it out for yourself.

    You can practice on the level of: My teachers did this so I will do this, or this worked once so I will try it again (think blood letting) . Or you can practice knowing why you do what you do. You have to examine your thought process for logical errors and missing information. It is very important to know what you do not know. If you know your thought process, when new information comes along, you can change your mind in a logical way. If you feel uncertain about certain pieces of information, assign a probability of correctness to the information. This will also help you change your mind, should new information come along.

    The above can be applied to the field of biomechanics and to each patient encounter.

    Eric
     
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