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Care Quality Commission - Podiatrists in England

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by Lovefeet, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. Lovefeet

    Lovefeet Banned


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    Click on the below link, and scroll down to page 58:-

    http://www.cqc.org.uk/sites/default....0_scope_of_registration_guidance_final_1.pdf

    So does this mean that only Podiatrists/ Chiropodists are allowed to cut toenails or can anyone cut toenails? They clearly state the protected titles Podiatrists/Chiropodists -:morning:

    Would this also mean that if private Podiatrists who deal with nursing homes, would have to register with CQC in order to undertake toenail cutting services at nursing homes and other institutions regulated by the CQC?:morning:

    Does this mean that nursing homes, etc using Foot Health Practitioners are not complying with the Scope of Registration?:morning:
     
  2. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    I had a look at this and it seems to me to be a very detailed document and clear in its intention

    Page 17 states "Personal care for people who are unable to provide it for themselves".
    Page 26 states "Treatment of disease, disorder or injury....a) a treatment service provided by a healthcare professional".
    Page 37 explicitly states that minor surgical procedures are regulated including nail surgery & skin surgery (although 'not captured').
    Page 58 does state "The care of skin, hair and nails (with the exception of nail care provided by a chiropodists or podiatrist").

    I feel that this is informing the profession of how governments are thinking, in a similar way to the consultation mentioned in the Scottish thread. There is a clear differentiation between tasks (such as toenail cutting) which a healthy and able person would normally carry out for themselves, and treatment for a disease or disorder that would normally be carried out by a registered healthcare professional.

    As previously mentioned (and I take on board Mark Russell's argument concerning functional closure), I believe that as a profession, we should be exerting control by employing FHPs to carry out the 'social' nail cutting tasks and offering the powers that be a complete service. We can do this, FHPs cannot. This would give us a measure (and only a measure) of power when dealing with the bureaucrats.

    All the best

    Bill Liggins
     
  3. Lovefeet

    Lovefeet Banned

    Hi Bill,

    Thanks for your input. Like you we did a thorough read through of the document a good while ago. We as a group contacted the CQC around the same time to find out about FHPs doing this work......The reply we got was quite interesting, nowhere in their document did it state anthing like their reply to us.

    The CQC were quite happy with FHPs doing the work, just so long as each service users know what the difference is, e.g. statutory regulation and then its up to each service user to decide if they want to use a Podiatrist or FHP. So if someone who has dementia also needs to know what the difference is between Podiatrist/ FHP. This person cannot make the decision so their loved ones have to make the decision for them or its up to the staff nurse in charge of the nursing home to nake the decision.

    So, based on their reply, we realised that their document wasn't quite clear enough.

    So Bill, big favour to ask, if it is not too much trouble, do you think you could contact the CQC and find out what their viewpoint is with regard to FHPs. See if it is still the same. With regard to their scope of registration document I think it is rather misleading to the public that they state only Pods and Chirops can carry out the work (protected titles), yet what they really mean is not just Pods and Chirops, FHPs are also entitled to do all the same work as Pods, on the service users feet (this includes corn enucleation)....Just as long as each service user knows what the difference is, e.g. statutory regulation and the consequences of using someone who is not statutory regulated.....

    Yet, the thing is I can't help think this is a back door entry for FHPs to be regulated by the CQC, so FHPs can say that because they are regulated by the CQC, they are indeed "statutory regulated" in order to provide a service to nursing homes, etc.

    Once again it looks like The Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists were caught snoozing again!!!!!!

    OR am I just barking up the wrong tree:morning
     
  4. There is a MoU between the CQC and HCPC which effectively delegates powers from the former to the latter, however the HCPC cannot enforce these standards because it's own legislative powers are restricted to protection of title only! I'll see if I can dig out the memorandum....
     
  5. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    podiatrists are not regulated by the cqc . only podiatric surgeons and podiatrists with aqp contracts which stipulate cqc registration for diagnostic testing eg doppler. the cqc only covers the diagnostic testing nothing else so 1500 quid to use a doppler about 50 times a year for me it does not regulate any other part of my practice so fhps would not be regulated as they dont do diagnostics why would they register with an organisation lots of effort and paperwork and a cost of 1500 quid for every location they work in ie if 2 clinics 3 grand i dont think they will be rushing to pay the fees do you ps you cant pay the fees monthly all upfront.

    fhps or anybody else may do a residents feet in a home which is cqc registered the residents can pick who they like this is england not north korea. unfortunatley for you, people have personal choice to do whatever they like
    even if its a bad decision.

    so lovefeet you are barking up the wrong tree i fear
     
  6. Lovefeet

    Lovefeet Banned

    Fishpod thank you for your very helpful and informative reply.

    I thought the FHPs would use the CQC to regulate them, because the CQC person we liaised with, stated regulated professions (not statutory regulated) which made me think that fhps are regulated (so says some of the fhp college/ associations) yet they are not statutory regulated....so that made me think they would use the CQC to regulate them.

    It also clearly stated by the CQC the following:-


    The guidance contains the following description of the regulated activity of personal care:

    The definition of personal care is broader than that used in previous registration regulatory systems. It covers:
    a) Physical assistance given to a person in connection with:
    i. Eating or drinking (including the administration of parenteral nutrition);
    ii. Toileting (including in relation to menstruation);
    iii. Washing or bathing;
    iv. Dressing;
    v. Oral care, and
    vi. The care of skin, hair and nails (with the exception of nail care provided by a chiropodist or podiatrist)'
    If the nail cutting service was provided by a provider as part of their provision of personal care and at no extra cost, then the service could be considered to be part of the activities covered by the service's registration to provide personal care. If the service is not included in the fees paid by clients for their personal care, then this is considered a seperate provision of personal care and therefore will be eligible for registration separately.


    So Fishpod can you please clarrify what that means....
     
  7. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    what it means if you read the professions they regulate ie dentists and gps is that they do not regulate podiatrists unless they do bone surgery and podiatrists do not need to cqc register unless an aqp contract insists . in other words if you are in pp you do not need to know if you work for an nhs trust the trust is cqc registered . so if you are a private pod it does not concern you.the cqc at present does not want your money start worrying if they do it will be your largest bill for membership of any organisation. i hope this clears it up for you in short they dont regulate foot care.kapisch see the bit about chiropody podiatry exemption its in your text doh!
     
  8. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Hello Lovefeet

    I don't think that it's worth asking the CQC their view for the reasons expressed by Mark and Fishpod. I am sure that your enquiry would have equal weight to mine in any case!

    Basically, they define what is 'social care' and what is treatment, the latter expressed as that provided by a registered healthcare professional in order to treat conditions and disorders. Personally, I have no issue at all with an FHP dealing with simple tasks, nor would I wish to prevent another carer from doing so.

    All the best

    Bill
     
  9. Lovefeet

    Lovefeet Banned

    Hi Fishpod and Bill,
    Thank u for your input.

    Fishpod, I did laugh at your doh expression!!! To you i may come over thick, but i get so frustrated with the CQC for not been 100% explicit in their paperwork, i.e. using protected title words (Chiropody/ Podiatry), but what they mean is also FHP can also undertake cutting toenails.

    Thank you guys for your time and intelligence. :)
     
  10. fishpod

    fishpod Well-Known Member

    hi love feet you want to try to talk to cqc they are like politicians you can get no answers only read our crap and if you think it applies to you send us your money.jeremy paxman could not get adefinitive yes or no from them. they dont care who cuts toe nails as they dont regulate footcare . (yet)
     
  11. alaranjo

    alaranjo Member

    Hi everyone, anyone has this document saved that could send it to my email? I'm trying to download it but it's not available.

    Cheers
     
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