Vertical forces produce horizontal progression during gait . Any thoughts ?
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During gait , pushing down hard with the standing foot causes the swing leg to move in front of the body faster . Important in balance recovery after a trip ?
How do some footballers "ping" a pass with very little back lift ? Same mechanics . -
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Hi Eric
We had a discussion about this subject here-
Vertical ground reaction forces and sprinting
However , since then, Luke Kelly (1) has produced another good paper on the energy storage properties of the intrinsic foot muscles . I wonder if the stored energy in the intrinsics might be returned to the the system during mid stance as the foot becomes less flattened contributing to vertical acceleration of the pelvis and hence angular acceleration of the swing foot /leg .
(1)
Intrinsic foot muscles contribute to elastic energy storage and return in ...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30462568
by LA Kelly - 201821 Nov 2018 - We recorded foot motion and forces, alongside muscle activation and ultrasound images from flexor digitorum brevis (FDB), an intrinsic foot muscle that spans the arch. -
In gait, after heel off, the toes are mostly dorsiflexing, so they would be absorbing energy. If they start to plantarflex as the metatarsals leave the ground, they could be contributing some energy to gait. With horizontal friction this force could be both vertical and horizontal.
Eric -
Eric ,
As you are aware , the bony arch of the foot compresses and recoils during gait and this compression and recoil results in , among many other things , a lowering and raising of the tibiotalar joint .
What I am suggesting is that as the arch recoils , the raising of the tibiotalar joint will help produce angular acceleration in the swing leg .
Understanding how vertical accelerations can produce angular acceleration can probably best be achieved by looking at a small weighted object tied to a string .
Hold the string in your hand and gently start the object swinging to and fro . Now a bit of co-ordination is required , but basically as the object starts to descend , lift your hand and therefore the string , upwards . The weight will accelerate . If you repeatedly lift and drop your hand and therefore the anchor point of the string , in a well timed manner , you will continue to impart energy into your pendulum .
Here is a link to a short video showing the lowering and raising of the tibiotalar joint .
Over Pronation & Supination Motion Biomechanics of the Subtalar ...
▶ 1:43
14 Jun 2012 - Uploaded by DrGlassDPMValmassey's Textbook Clinical Biomechanics of the Lower Extremities is a great reference. I suggest it http ...Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 -
So with regard to the above can "spring loaded" shoes/boots improve gait efficiency especially in cases were a load is being carried ie a rucksack or Bergen ?
I would think it probably can .
It's not so much about "bouncing along " but more about assisted contralateral swing .
Interesting .Last edited: Jan 14, 2019 -
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Do you disagreeing with this from thread 6 ? - "Understanding how vertical accelerations can produce angular acceleration can probably best be achieved by looking at a small weighted object tied to a string .
Hold the string in your hand and gently start the object swinging to and fro . Now a bit of co-ordination is required , but basically as the object starts to descend , lift your hand and therefore the string , upwards . The weight will accelerate . If you repeatedly lift and drop your hand and therefore the anchor point of the string , in a well timed manner , you will continue to impart energy into your pendulum "
If your swing leg is on the way down ( and past 90 degrees relative to the standing leg ) and you push up on the standing leg you will create tension in the ligaments etc of the swing leg and it will accelerate . That is a matter of fact . -
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Eric ,
As we walk our pelvises move up and down in the vertical plane (among others ) .
So take a pencil to represent the pelvis , and our string with a weight on it to represent the swing leg . Tie the string to one end of the pencil and hold the other end of the pencil in your hand .
So now you have a pencil held out from your hand parallel to the ground and from this dangles the string . Now lift your hand vertically up and down to represent a straightening , lifting stance leg . The string and weight will simply mimic this up and down movement .
However , if you first start the weight and string moving to and fro , as in a pendulum , then when you lift and drop the held end of the pencil , energy will be imparted into the swinging weight . If you've got rhythm that is !
And so yes , " Vertical forces produce horizontal progression during gait . " Not "impossible" since accelerating the swing leg will cause it to advance , in part , horizontally . -
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David
Are you accepting that in broad terms "Vertical forces produce horizontal progression during gait " in the way outlined in post #11 above ? -
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We seem to be in agreement . The stance leg drives the pelvis up etc .
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Who's Gerald ?
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What on earth are you talking about ?
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Simon ,what exercises do you recommend to your patients for intrinsic foot muscles strengthening purposes .
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An so meanwhile , back on the topic at hand and and away from Simon and the missing "r" in the reporters story (Gerard rather than Gerrard ), which led him to use the name Gerald ?
During walking it is my understanding that the pelvis is at it lowest point in double support and so this fits well with the general idea of vertical displacement of the pelvis causing acceleration in the swing leg as walking progresses .
True that supination may not contribute in the walking scenario but that's ok because it all just theory up for discussion . -
Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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Simon, Why is it such a bad thing that someone wants to learn? :ie scotfoot? My understanding from before was that you are an educator? Surely that would mean you are open to teaching. I do not post here anymore or bother with it much as this is the kind of thing that shows up here a lot. If ego and elitism were the standards for entry to podiatry arena then it seems that would make more sense. I came here some time ago to get more information about biomechanics of the foot as I wanted to understand better for my patients. It is about them after all that I do this work. When I give lectures to those wanting to learn about upper extremity splinting for stroke etc. my discussion to those wanting to learn and ask questions revolves around mutual respect because we all want to learn. Few people these days want to it seems . Some are content to sit on what they have learned in the past and consider it done. Others like to learn about more. That should not be shunned it should be encouraged. Sorry for talking. I know I'm not a podiatrist so my opinion here matters little so if you could please forgive me.
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Thanks for replying. Then with all you have said perhaps this site should be ADVERTIZED as podiatrist \ foot professional ONLY and stated very clearly at the opening front page that NO OTHER interactions are or will be tolerated. Then those of us professionals outside of your loop will know to just stay away. However, as it is an open forum and seems to be set up on the internet as such then those of us unsuspecting fools and advertizers who see it come up in a search for foot related issues and see it as a place to ask questions will probably do so. To their regret it seems. Get Craig to close the loop then. I mean you well Simon. I don't know you but I do respect you.
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Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
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This is not your site Simon and you don't make the rules , Craig does .
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You said "Couldn’t remember your name because you hide your identity behind a pseudonym here "
And yet my name , Gerrard Farrell and city , Glasgow appear on every one of my posts .
That's 444 times .
You said "To be honest no-one really uses this site anymore anyway " . And yet membership continues to grow .
Why not just block my content ? -
I couldn't agree more. Like the UK-based JISC Podiatry Mailbase before it, I believe Podiatry Arena may have run its course as being a place where I want to actively contribute. It was great fun over the years having debates with yourself, Howard Dananberg, Bruce Williams, Eric Fuller, Craig Payne, Daryl Phillips and many others on these internet-based podiatry discussion forums.
Maybe it's time for a new internet venue where we can share ideas and debate like the old times. Now, unfortunately, when a dentist and "NewsBot" are posting up the only comments on PA, something is very wrong. -
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Simon ,
You need podiatry arena more than it needs you . Without it you will simply fade away.
Kevin,
I have been on to your twitter page and to be honest it's just regurgitation . Podiatry arena continues to grow
Back to you Simon .Could you tell me what exercise you recommend to your patients for strengthening of the intrinsic foot muscles ?
<
Cushioning reduces the metabolic cost of running
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"... biomechanical non-responder ... " is a subject who ?
>
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