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HPC Hearings

Discussion in 'United Kingdom' started by admin, Jun 30, 2007.

  1. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member


    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    Just noticed these (names edited out) and posted the below in the interest of educating other practitioners:
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2007
  2. Admin2

    Admin2 Administrator Staff Member

  3. George Brandy

    George Brandy Active Member

    To pick up on some of the points the HPC have made after placing a Conditions of Practice order on registrant podiatrist:

    (ii) his method of disposal of contaminated waste water from both the autoclave and the ultrasonic cleaner is inappropriate;

    I cannot find the appropriate method of disposal of contaminated waste water. I have taken this question to a Professor of Microbiology responsible for infection control within a UK hospital and his appropriate method would be into the waste water system. My professional body has no written recommendations.

    (v) repeatedly moving the autoclave from the floor to a chair runs the risk of upsetting the calibration of it;

    OK moving from floor to chair has more implications to the operator lugging the autocalve up and down but some time ago I asked a development engineer of a company manufacturing autoclaves what is the likely hood of this happening. The answer was unlikely. I assume the HPC then do not recommend moving the autoclave along a bench top to clean the detritous from underneath it? I also assume the HPC do not recommend group sessions where the engineer comes to one venue to service many autoclaves?

    (vi) while accepting that at the relevant time there was the laminate flooring described by Mr {edit}, the Panel considers that a minimum acceptable standard would require a continuous, impermeable and washable surface which extends up the wall at the edges of the floor to include the level of the skirting board;

    So the HPC are dictating a minimum acceptable standard. My professional body suggests this is an ideal but has not made this mandatory. So how many NHS clinics are now falling below the HPC minimum acceptable standard and as the registrant, the HPC will possibly make you responsible for infection control should a complaint be made against your standards of practice in this area.

    If the HPC have set Infection Control Standards I assume then it is only fair to the registrants affected by these standards to let us know what they are. I feel this registrant has been made an example of by the HPC because they can and if the alleged leading UK professional body has not advised its members according to HPC infection control guidelines because they don't know what they are, then I feel that Mr {edit} has every right to appeal against the decision of the board in this particular case.

    GB
     
  4. Graeme Franklin

    Graeme Franklin Active Member

    Maybe we will have to wait until the transcript comes out. I wonder if he was disposing the material down the hand-washing sink? The case is perturbing.

    Graeme
     
  5. Am I alone in thinking the world has gone mad??

    Gaun yersel' Jimmy!
     
  6. The following case has serious ramifications for podiatry practice in the UK

    Given the foregoing, the vast majority of practitioners in the UK will be in breach of the, as yet, unpublished guidelines for minimum clinical standards. Further, these guidelines are dichotomous with those specified by the Society of Chiropodists and Podiatrists, including those laid down in the Society's Practice Accreditation Scheme. I have no knowledge of guidelines from the Institute or BChA, but I would suspect they may also follow those from the Society.

    That being the case, it would appear that the vast majority of practitioners in the UK are practising illegally and may be subject to prosecution by the regulator. I have asked the Society for clarification on these matters, but would be grateful to members of the other membership bodies if they can give guidance to what current standards have been adopted by their respective organisations.

    Sincerely

    Mark Russell
     
  7. jack golding

    jack golding Active Member

    Some of what the HPC are dictating mirrors what is required for registration with the Care Standards Commission. It is almost certain that those practitioners who carry out podiatric surgery on their own premises will have to register with that organisation. Having started on the process of registering, I would strongley advise the podiatry organisations not to be pushed down that route by the HPC.If colleagues dont believe me I would suggest they look at the regulations made under the Private and Voluntary Health Care( England) orders 2oo1. If the HPC try to impliment this type of regulation, it would be the end of many private practices Jack Golding
     
  8. William Fowler

    William Fowler Active Member

    These cases should be compulsory reading for all HPC registered health professionals. Like it or not, they certainly point to the standards that are now expected.
     
  9. jack golding

    jack golding Active Member

    The question has to be asked, is it the remit of the HPC to order general podiatry practitioners to upgrade their premises to standards which would normally only apply to an acute hospital. Surely this would be out of all proportion to the work being carried out, and certainly not evidence based. If this is not nipped in the bud almost every GPP will find themselves with the HPC on their backs. Shout loudly dont let it happen by default,
     
  10. Transcript of the Baldwin Case is attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Mark et al

    Can anyone tell me if this woman is complaining she has got an infection of some description from this practitioner ?? or just she didn't like the decor ???

    I gave up the will to live after the first twenty pages and came to the conclusion, "ain't it time these wankers got a life" ??? :mad:

    What is this costing the tax payer (us) with this bloody Political Correctness ??

    It is a nonsense to have this medico-legal quangos for this absolute Taurean excrement.

    Why didn't the practitioner tell them to stuff it (and the nutter that is complaining) and revert to a FHP ( bullet proof) ?? or don't the FTP lot believe tossers like this complainant exist ??

    I have just finished a really hard day in surgery . I'm hot p****ed off coz I want to be with my family on this beautiful sunny warm day. and have just finished getting my notes on computer.

    Tomorrow (Sunday) I have to autoclave my instruments ready for my next days work ,do a full back up of my pc,do a stock order and my accounts.

    Now I have to worry if my next patient dosen't like my colour scheme in the surgery :eek:

    I am on the verge of giving up !!!

    Has ANYONE got ANY COMMON SENSE in this HPC ??????!!!

    Where's that bottle of red :rolleyes:

    ARRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH :mad:

    Cheers
    Derek
     
  12. footmedic

    footmedic Active Member

    I believe it is not the HPC alone to blame, what about those who sit on the panel from our own profession.
     
  13. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Footmedic
    Makes you wonder , with a national shortage of Podiatrists how these people find the time to sit on these committee's.
    I suppose the MEP situation ( Talking rubbish for loadsamoney) or the "those that cant do Teach" analogy spring to mind

    In my former life where I made life and death decisions on a daily basis, I was always confident that if I was ever brought to book over any job I had done for whatever reason the people judging me were my peers who had worked their way up through every aspect of the job to reach a senior position.

    If you were wrong they would tell you but they would defend you fiercely against anyone if you were right.

    Oh how times change :(

    Cheers
    Derek
     
  14. George Brandy

    George Brandy Active Member

    DDT, I cannot endorse enough the total common sense statement you have made here.

    I don't question the panel's ability and knowledge of infection control in the Baldwin case but what I do question is their application of this knowledge in all aspects of Chiropody and Podiatry. From the toenail cutter to the pod surgeon.

    So the panel experts will tell us that you can't have one rule for one person and another rule for someone else. So to our infection control experts:

    In a practice that cuts toe nails and pops off the odd bit of callus why on earth is a continuous washable flooring, sealed seams and splashbacks more effective in combating infection than a regularly washed vinyl floor with regularly washed and well painted skirting boards? Where is the evidence? Okay its a DoH minimum standard. Why? It stops dust/dirt collecting in nooks and crannies. Does it? Isn't effective removal of dust/dirt more appropriate? What risk is that dust to a person attending for nail cut, callus reduction and advice?

    Please can we have application of knowledge, an understanding of differing practices, a panel member with a proven track record in all aspects of podiatry and common sense.

    Oh dear, I do appear to have asked for the earth....

    GB
     
  15. I've no idea how the HPC operates in terms of evidential criteria for fitness to practise hearings - whether it be similar to English Case Law or otherwise - but my initial concern with the Baldwin hearing was that a precedent may have been set whereby the standards upheld by the panel would therefore apply to all registrants, be that NHS or private practice, or general footcare or podiatric surgery. I do feel that it is invidious of the HPC to expect registrants to adhere to standards that the HPC have not formally adopted or published. The standards adopted in this case seem to be 'best practice' rather than 'acceptable minimum standard' - but if this is indeed the level by which the bar has been set, then I agree many - if not the majority - of podiatry registrants will be in breach of the HPC standards and therefore liable for sanction.

    The impact of this may be far reaching and not only in private practice. I would think that the vast majority of NHS clinics fall below the standards quoted by the panel in the Baldwin Case. That being so, is the individual employee liable for the condition of State property and surroundings? What advice should be given to the registrant who is instructed to carry out podiatry work in NHS clinics that are substandard?
     
  16. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi George

    I would imagine that 99.9% of patients that present for routine podiatry care in for non invasive procedures (unless you class corn enucleation as invasive).
    The point one per cent that remains are the nail surgery patient that present with a septic pus filled digit containing necrosed tissue bacteria etc.

    Can anyone think of a more "dirty" condition ??

    So this patient is bringing all these bio hazards IN to your surgery :eek:

    The procedure itself is contained within a small area of your couch and debris tray. What has that to do with skirting boards flooring and the rest??

    The infection is already there ,cross infection is preventable by normal standards of hygiene in the localised area and clinically clean instruments for the treatment .That is it in a nutshell.

    So where is the drama the life threatening situation which IMHO has never ever occurred, only in the minds of the imaginative.

    Dust?? We all know the reduction of the cracker of a neglected Gryphotic nail causes dust, loads of it. I have the latest spray drills,ionizers in the surgery but after reducing a large nail about an hour later a thin white film of dust appears and after that is cleared an hour later another film of dust is back.

    So what do we do?? I know

    Lets ban all patients with septic toes and gryphotic nails IN CASE .......

    That would appear to be the road we are going down.

    If we all go down the route of the podiatric surgeon and are opening joint capsules and doing bone surgery (another "dirty " operation) then we will all have to review the situation.
    Until that time perhaps these representative on the FTP panel could think more of protecting the registrant than condemning them
    Cheers
    Derek
     
  17. footmedic

    footmedic Active Member

    The problem with hpc, according to my personal communication /experience is that they do not have any crystal clear written standard or views. Easy to tarnish the law biding practitioners without given them any humane consideration which can affect their social life.

    We the podiatrists may have different agenda / views but, when it come to certain allegations against our profession must drag together. The podiatrists who sit on the FTP panel will need to use common sense or one day IT COULD BE THEM ON THE DOCK!. No one is above the law even the hpc may be challenged the way they conduct business.

    What really puzzle me is hpc using our fee to punish us, also we have to hire solicitor (cost a lot) and if by chance someone win the case no compensation. That is the reality we are all in.
     
  18. DTT

    DTT Well-Known Member

    Hi Footmedic


    Only 10% of the population need a police force the rest are law abiding citizens. :confused:

    In 40 years in health care I can honestly say I have NEVER willfully caused anyone harm or injury.

    Has anyone in a so called "Caring" profession ever done do ??

    If the answer to that question is yes ,then bugger off to some other job :mad:

    We all "joined up " to improve peoples quality of life.

    None of us intentionally do a patient harm ( first maxim of medicine "do no harm") yes mistakes happen no one disputes that BUT does that really warrant hanging the practitioner out to dry on the probability they may or may not have done this dastardly deed and decided on by a group of Muppet's without any practical experience of the profession , or those with dubious reasons for sitting on the panel ??

    Lets have some support from the professional bodies on this.

    Why not publish the name and the practice location of the podiatrist who is sitting in judgment on the panel ??

    We could all then watch them like a hawk and report any lack of decor ,wall covering ,floor covering etc :D

    It is a nonsense from start to finish, perhaps Bill Gates can develop a PC with a common sense button on it??

    I wont hold my breath whilst I'm waiting .

    Cheers

    Derek ;)
     
  19. :eek: Just found my next topic for CPD within my
    private practice. Cannot rely on common sence.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2007
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