I recently joined several Facebook groups for sufferers of plantar fasciitis (I don't recommend it as it will fill up your newsfeed with a lot of stuff). I have to exercise significant restraint in not commenting!
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I learnt some things:
1) There is an extraordinary number of people out there that have had their plantar fasciitis mismanaged by health professionals and self management
2) A hellava lot of them self manage
3) they seem to try one treatment, then move to another when that one does not work (most of the treatments discussed in these groups don't work, but the improvement with many would be due to the natural history .... but try and convince them of that would be an exercise in futility!)
4) They give a lot more weight to a testimonial from a fellow sufferer than to what the scientific evidence says
5) They confuse correlation with casusation
6) Its never the natural history that is the reason that they improved; its always whatever they did at the time just before it got better
7) It seems like every second post is about magnesium supplements!! ... with an extraordinary number of testimonials by people claiming it cured or improved their plantar fasciitis!
Magnesium supplements is the hot topic in these communities! ... yet no clinical trials and I have no idea how it would help unless you are deficient in it (and even then I see no pathophysiological mechanism by which a deficiency would be a factor in plantar fasciitis)
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Re: Magnesium for plantar fasciitis ??
As far as I know bischofit (magnesium chloride) is routinely marketed and sold as topical medication to treat heel spurs (at least in our country). One of our local manufacturer's web-site doesn't directly say that any of their bischofit supplements is indicated in heel spur cases, mainly recommends those in gastrointestinal, endocrine disorders and osteoporosis. In theory, if there's a person whose heel pain is triggered/aggravated by any of these conditions (e.g. gout, inflammatory bowel disease), could they successfully address the primary cause of their heel pain with magnesium supplement? -
Re: Magnesium for plantar fasciitis ??
One other thing I learnt was that of those posting in these groups about their plantar fasciitis and describe their symptoms in details, about half of them do not have plantar fasciitis!!! ... yet they still following all the online advice and advice from the group for plantar fasciitis! -
typical:
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Re: Magnesium for plantar fasciitis ??
Meanwhile, any lay person may feel compelled to ask about the tentative level of agreement among health care practitioners refferring to their condition(s) as heel pain / plantar fasciitis / plantar fasciosis / calcaneal spur. One cannot blame the public for a not-so-precise terminology before physicians heal themselves, define and agree upon their use of these very terms. -
Re: Magnesium for plantar fasciitis ??
Steven -
indeed ... put a leaf in your shoes!
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Yep; eggs will cure it:
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Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016 -
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Placebo?
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If the magnesium and eggs don't work, there is always the onions:
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common sort of exasperated post:
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Remember all that nonsensical propaganda and rhetoric from the barefoot fan boys and how you should go barefoot to treat plantar fasciits? I wonder what they would say to these people?
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Will a 'Circulation Booster' work? ... ummm .... nope
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"Curamin" and going gluten free helps!
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Now apple cider can fix it!
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Now its due the wheat!
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Yep; its the magnesium and not the natural history of pain fluctuating.
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Hi CP,
I've just spotted this thread, and I think I know why you find the self treatments so frustrating... The support group is for "plantar faciitis" not "fasciitis"!! :hammer:
It's time to click "Unfollow" and find the "plantar fasciitis" support group instead... :pigs:
Regards
D -
yep; that will work!
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http://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Pyridoxine-Fundamental-Clinical-Practice/dp/1607417049/ Magnesium and Pyridoxine: Fundamental Studies and Clinical Practice
I still can find no reason why magnesium supplements would help plantar fasciitis.
A magnesium deficiency affects tissue viability, but only if you are deficient. If your diet is OK, then you are not deficient and supplements will not help. -
WTF? this is a weird one. The post below turned up in my newsfeed and clicking on it led to this site:
Plantar Fasciitis Treatment Is Being Changed By These Surprisingly Common Essential Oils
it was freakin tea tree oil ..... snake oil alert, but lots of people buying into it.
I searched facebook for the profiles of all those posting testimonials:
https://outbacknaturalpainrelief.com/new-australian-oil-for-foot-pain ... they all fake and do not exist.
this is the page you eventually get to for a purchase:
http://www.amazon.com/Pain-Relief-Pack-Outback®-All-Natural/dp/B0182QMJN4/
Lots of 5 star reviews .... go figureAttached Files:
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Now its the sugars and carbs!
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Cutting back on carbs is always a good thing.
Steven -
Of course anecdotal evidence plays havoc with clinical practice, however if If I play devils advocate for a moment...
If we step back and helicopter up to the concepts which may potentially be of consideration; for example some of our western medical paradigm challenges with the "known unknowns" and 'no evidence for... (yet?)' syndrome...
- What effect does supplementation (targeted or otherwise) have upon an individual with fascial type pain?
- Is this measurable in isolation?
- As the fascia is reported to be a piezoelectric tissue, is there a triggered immune response which may affect the bioelectrical potentials thru or across collagen/fascia?
- Does this effect viscoelasticity?
- Does this possibly have a correlated chemical flush of the symptomatic region which may directly moderate mechanoreceptor / other nerve-ending response?
- Does this have any direct effect on pain modulation?
When will we have the tools to measure, interpret and understand the nutritional and biochemical status of individuals, and will this be MSK protocol relevant?
(For anyone interested, quick read below):
BIOELECTRIC RESPONSIVENESS OF FASCIA
69 Techniques in Orthopaedics?, Vol. 18, No. 1, 2003
FASCIA: SPECIALIZED CONNECTIVE TISSUE
Connective tissue proper consists of six basic types.5
Each type is designed to provide a specific function in
the support of organism integrity through structure, function,
and ultimately homeostasis from the gross to the
cellular. In this sense, it is aptly named.
1. Areola tissue: loosely packed, readily deformed and
distended. It binds tissues and organs together, allowing
freedom of motion between structures. It collects
inflammatory and effused substances from organs and
cells. It forms a continuous subcutaneous, submucous,
and subserous tissue throughout the body.
Within the loosely arranged collagen and elastin fibers
travel blood vessels, nerves, and lymph vessels.
2. White fibrous tissue: very dense, linear collagenous
fibers with tensile strength. It connects bones and
muscles, forms investing membranes that protect
organs and structures, and creates supportive pathways
for nerves, blood vessels, and lymph vessels.
Nerves and lymph vessels terminate in this tissue,
facilitating information exchange on gross and fine
motion of the musculoskeletal system. Developmentally,
the pattern of linear fibers is given direction
by responding to tensile mechanical forces in
the growing embryo.10 This response of collagen to
mechanical forces is maintained throughout life
and is discussed in more detail later.
3. Yellow elastic tissue: moderately dense with a matrix
high in elastin fibers. This tissue provides elastic
support to diverse tissues such as the vocal cords,
blood vessels, trachea, and bronchi.
4. Mucous connective tissue: embryologically the jelly
of Wharton in the umbilical cord and, in the adult, the
vitreous humor of the eye. Mucin is the major component
of the matrix.
5. Retiform connective tissue: the base of mucous membranes
and the internal framework of organs. Fine
reticulin fibers mix with white fibrous fibers to create
the structure of lymphoid and adenoid tissue.
6. Basement membrane: supportive tissue for epithelium
of mucous membranes and secreting glands.
Connective tissue acts as a barrier, communicator,
protector, and a reactor. It supports and forms the body
framework as adipose, bone, cartilage, and discs. It
directs and limits planes of motion in the component
parts of the musculoskeletal system with fascia, tendons,
ligaments, and capsules. It protects organ structures
while allowing contiguous organs and tissues to function
independently. It reacts to trauma in the tissues by
precipitating platelet aggregation, clot formation, and
tissue repair through the ECF, and it directs the deposition
of hydroxyapatite crystals in bone. It is ubiquitous.
Fascia is the largest component of white fibrous tissue.
It has three layers: superficial, deep, and subserous.
Developmentally, it is a continuous sheet enveloping and
compartmentalizing the body. This continuity communicates
local and regional events throughout the fascia.
Fascial integrity is essential in the maintenance of posture,
locomotion, and response to mechanical stress. The
subserous fascia covers, supports, and lubricates organs.
The deep fascia forms compartments for cavities, organs,
and structures. The superficial fascia is related to the
dermis, forming a protective covering on the body.
Fascia is universal. The unique design of the fascia
provides the framework in which the ECF coordinates
homeostasis. No disease escapes notice and no cure
occurs without the assistance of the fascia.
Disruption and distortion of the fascia triggers a repair
process directed at correction of damage and strengthening
of tissue. Repair is mediated by the release of
chemotactic factors activating the congregation and proliferation
of fibroblasts. The fibroblasts coat the injured
area with a fibrin matrix. Collagen is then deposited in a
linear fashion. The fibrin matrix and collagen fibers are
deposited along lines of mechanical tension in the tissue.7 -
At least this one was funny...
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was it really plantar fassciitis or just a trigger point problem.
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Reading this thread made feel hungry .... no idea why
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/magnesium-the-cure-to-all-disease/-
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its not just the magnesium
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oh dear; epic fail on someone's part
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Thus video from a chiropractor has been shared often in these groups:
Lots of testimonials that it works.Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016 -
lol.... sure it does :pigs:Last edited by a moderator: Sep 22, 2016 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXdlPuKfyXs -
I hope that helps. -
lot of people unhappy with their foot orthotics
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Based on people asking for advice on Facebook, some think its more common in the right foot!
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Typical response. A post was made asking if a certain product helped plantar fasciitis.
First response - didn't help
Second response - helped
That is why we need proper RCT's.Attached Files:
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To those who like to think magnesium or apple cider vinegar can dissolve bone - how fiendishly clever of magnesium to target only the spur and not the entire skeletal system. Maybe it's smart nano-technology enhanced 'stuff' with tissue specific targeting capability. Or maybe it's just nonsense ...Last edited: Feb 22, 2017 -
My surgery is removal of the spur (for the bone marrow edema), and injection of platelet gel to help heal the mucoid degeneration (immobilization with very gradual return to weight bearing is also required). I remember one surgery that when I removed the spur, the fluid was visibly welling in the surgical site. The surgery was done with a tourniquet, so I am sure it was the edema. The patient did very well post op and told me on the first post op visit that the achiness was gone. -
Historically this was tried out and also with good success, but the procedure drifted off the radar. Some doctors were concerned about the fracture risk, hot on the 'heel' of one litigation case. The technique was recently modified to apply a series of 3 holes through a single stab incision and targeted on the area of maximal bone edema. Low numbers. Good outcome, no complications (yet).
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