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Swift Microwave for VP

Discussion in 'General Issues and Discussion Forum' started by Gwai, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. Gwai

    Gwai Member

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    Hi. Anyone out there had there hands on the Swift microwave therapy unit? Any good results?
    I've searched for another thread but not found one yet.
    I've tried to book a demonstration of the device via their website but not heard back from them yet.
  2. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Nope. There is a problem with the audit of the CE mark on the machines. A lot of unhappy people out there who parted with over 10k since November 2015.. No RCTS either.....
  3. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    10K ???? .... that's a lot of VP treatment before you start to make your money back, much less a profit :dizzy:
  4. Simon Ross

    Simon Ross Active Member

    "Nope. There is a problem with the audit of the CE mark on the machines. A lot of unhappy people out there who parted with over 10k since November 2015.. No RCTS either....."

    Who told you about the problem with the audit of the CE mark?

    "10K ???? .... that's a lot of VP treatment before you start to make your money back, much less a profit"

    Although I didn't go to Harrogate, I have been told that several people were buying these units at Harrogate. I was speaking to someone a few weeks ago, who said that needling may pose a serious threat to the machine. A very wise lady that I know told me that Gary and his colleagues have spend a lot of money, and time on researching the Swift machine. I hope that it pays off for them. Yes, Dieter, 10K is a lot of money. Have people done their what iffing?!
  5. davidh

    davidh Podiatry Arena Veteran

    My advice, for what it's worth, is to take what very wise ladies say with a pinch of salt….....

    In the grand scheme of things 10k is not a lot of money.
    In a podiatry practice running as a business it is a large whack of cash.

    Unless the treatment is absolutely guaranteed to work (it can't be) there is no way on Gods earth that this bit of kit is worth purchasing.

    I checked out the website.
    They charge 100 sovs a treatment. After three treatments that goes down to 80 sovs. That's roughly 100 treatments before the unit is paid for and starts to make money - if you buy into their figures. Without RCTs however, the figures mean nothing.
    Rather like the guaranteed-to-work laser treatment for fungal nails.

    From a medicolegal perspective, anyone buying into this and making ANY kind of promise to their patients - and I include the owners of Swift Technology here - is on very shaky ground. They would almost certainly lose if they were taken to Court for making promises or statements they couldn't justify. Believing manufacturers hype is no defence in law.

    Nice idea, but needs work.

    For a Mod - Why do my "pound" signs convert to question-marks when I post?
  6. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member


    Do you have a problem here, buddy? People will ask questions of new treatments. As they ought to. Period.

    Gary and his buddies spend time on R & D: so what? A few people bought one: so what? 10K, for a solo practitioner is a hard hit. I don't care how much time was spent on R & D. Folk out there are still sore from the Laser nail fungus fad. A heavy investment and the outcomes did not match the hyperbole. I am not a business strategy guru but would hazard a guess that companies will sell many more units if the capital outlay and cost burden on a practitioner is lowered.

    Can this be a worthwhile investment? Under the right circumstances, yes. A group practice, perhaps. Or a niche practice in an affluent setting with plenty of disposable income. The biggest problem, for such expensive equipment, is the lack of versatility. The sole indication, is VP treatment.

    It so happens the lead Podiatrist in the UK, for Swift, is Dr. I. Bristow. He is my classmate (Class of 1987). I know Ivan to be a no nonsense kind of guy.

    It won't do any harm, for Swift, to have some RCTs to back up their claims. Swift are likely coming to America, pending FDA approval. If this works out for Swift, I plan to meet with Johnathan Williams, Director of Strategy & Planning, next January at the Annual NYC Podiatry Conference. Without RCTs insurance companies will probably not cover the treatment. This will very likely, then, be an out-of-pocket treatment expense.

    So, what about Swift treatment:

    1. It's not painless - some people liken it to an injection, and there may be pain after the treatment

    2. It's not a one-off cure - some people will need several treatments

    3. Peter Thompson, in his video address, talks about the advantages over traditional treatments.

    Salicylic Acid dressings: Need dressings and the foot has to be kept dry. And the patient has got to come back - yup, but they have to come back for Swift too. He says we can't predict the depth of treatment with chemicals but Swift allows you to dial in the penetration depth. So, Peter, without taking a biopsy sample how exactly do you know the depth of the lesion, to dial in your treatment.

    Cryotherapy: kinda brushed aside the issue - while admitting there are clinical guides to know depth of freezing he says he doesn't know how accurate that is.

    Electrocautery: needs a local anesthetic. And you get 'a whacking big ulcer you need to heal' - big disadvantage, says Peter. Well, Peter, that's operator dependent. With some skill the depth of the ulcer is confined to the size of the VP. But, yes, a wound is created and sometimes this is followed by scarring.

    4. Chris Webb, Private Podiatrist video testimonial
    Short & sharp, small amount of discomfort like a 'burn for 'around-about three seconds'. Chris says there is no pain after the treatment, no padding is needed

    5. Ivan Bristow talks about a case study of a VP of the heel present for many years. This was treated over a period of three months. Good response in pain reduction after the second application. Full resolution after the third treatment.

    Like so many new, innovative treatments this is a promising development. Can Swift stand the test of time and prosper? We will see.
  7. gdenbyUK

    gdenbyUK Active Member

    You can get a technical explanation from the manufacturer's site at www.treatwithswift.com. There's a new (March 2017) patient-friendly site about verrucae and microwave therapy at www.treatverruca.com. Units are available for purchase (or an approx £200 per month lease purchase scheme) through Canonbury Products - ask your Canonbury rep for details / demo / workshop.

    The Swift clinical research findings have now been accepted for peer-reviewed publication, any day now (March 2017)... Their independent trial (not an RCT yet, comparing to a 'gold treatment standard', whatever that might be) was of 52 of the worst and most unresponsive warts they could find over 10 months (Southampton University under Dr Ivan Bristow) with a 75%+ complete resolution rate - for warts present 5 years+. Quite amazing! The warts resolve so quickly, a crater often remains on the skin where it continues to grow the walling-off callus for a month or two! A 2016 research project identified that Swift Microwave therapy is triggering a heat shock response within the skin, causing the live skin to become active and present LIVE virus to the immune system (most traditional treatments kill the wart-laden skin and present mostly DEAD virus fragments to the immune system). A new and novel approach!

    A typical treatment session is £100 (the price of a good pair of shoes): £25 for the replaceable part that touches the skin; £25 towards the microwave generator; £25 towards your time as a clinician; £25 profit margin. The manufacturer supports a closed FaceBook group, to share best treatment practice and results. Swift Microwave Treatments can be used on mosaic warts in the soft tissues of clefts and on the edges of nails (unlike extreme acids and extreme cold). A unique, non-destructive, no mess approach. I was persuaded!
  8. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Hello: thank you for this information. Are you associated with the company? The information is also available from the Swift website, for the interested reader. I met with 'Swift' during their recent visit to New York City. Notwithstanding the efficacy claim, the challenge, for the company, to establish a base in America is very different to the UK. i.e. FDA approval, RCT's, coding, insurance approval, etc. I will continue to follow their progress, with interest.
  9. gdenbyUK

    gdenbyUK Active Member

    I am a persuaded purchaser of the Swift kit in the UK (3 weeks ago, awaiting first reviews). It was the findings about the production of Heat Shock Protein 70 that gave a reasonable explanation of the clinical results, which persuaded me. This was reported to the British Association of Dermatologists in July 2016 and its abstract is available: Ardern-Jones, M., et al. (2016). "Induction of antihuman papillomavirus immunity by microwave treatment of skin." British Journal of Dermatology 175 (Supp 1): 151.

    At present the Swift Microwave generator is available only in Canada and in the UK to Podiatrists - a British invention, manufactured just north of Edinburgh. A while yet, before a higher energy variant is available to Dermatologists in the UK. Can you imagine the licensing hurdles, to bring microwaves down a wave guide to be in contact with the skin? Most efforts are to contain the microwaves within a steel box, or to use low power versions for your mobile phone, WiFi and Bluetooth connections. The 10 Watt power that is used by the current Swift nose-piece is enough to feel like a firm 'pinch' in the skin over 2 seconds, or cause a small flinch if applied longer.
  10. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Congrats! I hope you can post your experiences with the technology, from time to time, the good and the bad or 'warts an'all' ... (sorry)
  11. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Microwave therapy for cutaneous human papilloma virus infection.
    Bristow I et al
    Eur J Dermatol. 2017 Oct 1;27(5):511-518. doi: 10.1684/ejd.2017.3086.
  12. Jonathan Williamson

    Jonathan Williamson Welcome New Poster

    Hello everyone,

    I am from the manufacturer of Swift, based in the UK, and wanted to make readers aware that the paper that is referenced above is open access. The full paper can be read by visiting our website, following the link to "Swift for Clinicians" and then to "Research".

    Thanks to Gary Denby for furnishing this thread with information on Swift, and also hello to Dr Fellner.

    I must correct Belinda in her statement regarding “unhappy people out there who parted with over 10k since November 2015” – this is incorrect. Many pre-orders were indeed taken through our UK distributor Canonbury, but these were notes of interest - no-one was invoiced until systems were delivered. There was indeed a delay related to the new requirements that are impacting lead times from our notified bodies (well publicised in the media – some companies have gone out of business awaiting audit as 12-week lead times have turned into 12 months…) but thankfully they got round to processing us eventually.

    As an update one year post launch, the system has been well received by the UK market. It is now available in 171 clinics across the UK, with 280 trained users, and more than 14,000 treatments completed. It has officially been launched in Canada as of this month (November 2017) and we expect to have FDA clearance during 2018. We also have launches planned in Australia (Q2 2018 - we are awaiting TGA clearance) and Spain (we are about to begin a Spanish clinical study with the University of Barcelona).

    We continue to carry out regular post-market surveillance exercises to confirm the effectiveness that was seen in the clinical study and to monitor safety and satisfaction, and are working closely with our user group to keep improving the treatment and moving forward. As Gary mentions, we do this by managing a closed group for users (it is closed to non-users to ensure the group stays clinical and focused on best practice, and is specifically not used as platform for sales promotion) and by holding best practice user group meetings (free of charge to Swift users), where we present new research and hold an open forum to discuss the treatment and share experiences. Our user group meeting last week had more than 60 people in attendance - a fantastic response that affirms our approach.
  13. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Hi Jonathan,

    Always happy to be corrected and thanks for the marketing update. The paper is indeed very interesting and the hypothesis of exciting/agitating water molecules for precise cell-death makes absolute sense, particularly when we know that an HPV infected keratinocyte does become fluid-filled during the process of viral replication. I am watching the results with a very keen eye and would very much like to read any RCTs that have been carried out, but still fail to see how a "closed facebook group" can focus on best practice without the input of anyone with an interest in HPV aetiology - but does not own a Swift device.
  14. Jonathan Williamson

    Jonathan Williamson Welcome New Poster

    Hi Belinda,

    That’s an interesting point, and one I hadn’t considered, although I suspect there is only a limited number of UK Podiatrists with a specific, academic interest in HPV aetiology, while there are many Podiatrists who would like to ask current Swift users questions on the device, their experiences, their pricing models etc. I need to protect the interests of our current users, and the feedback on the User Group is exclusively positive, although we could of course consider the inclusion of individuals with a purely academic interest.

    As an organisation we collaborate with and support a number of academic institutions, as well as organisations such as Cancer Research UK, to further research into our products. Our goal is to challenge the way conditions are currently treated and work together with industry, the clinical community, and academia to find better solutions for both patients and clinicians.
  15. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Thanks for the reply, Jonathan. As an independant researcher, with a couple of papers published on HPV (one of which was co-authoured with Dr Bristow) I would certainly appreciate being considered to join the Swift discussion group. My motives are not in financial gain nor marketing strategies, I am purely interested from an academic stance.

  16. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Hi Bel
    I hope Johnathan can consider your request, and in fact go a step further and open up the discussion group to everyone. The cloak & dagger approach appears suspicious, albeit unintentionally so. My gut reaction will be to ponder: 'what do they have to hide ....'
  17. blinda

    blinda MVP

    I hope so too, Dieter. The subject of how HPV maintains immune-ignorance in immune-competent individuals is of interest to many and needs to be considered when explaining to our patients the risks and benefits of all wart treatments, including Swift.
  18. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Indeed, Belinda. And, setting aside the academic value, SWIFT USA, no matter how ingenious and effective, will face stiff challenges. The great majority of US patients expect their insurance carrier to pick up the bill. If there is no specific billing mechanism to recoup the investment cost, very few Podiatrists will choose to pay for the equipment, out of pocket.
  19. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    It's been a while since anyone has commented on SWIFT, the company now marketing to provide the equipment in the US. I don't know any US Podiatrist who has made the investment (there may be some, of course).

    How is this technology working out in the UK?
  20. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Howzit, Dieter?

    Anecdotally, practitioners in the UK report good, bad and indifferent results. Unfortunately, the SWIFT Facebook page will only allow practitioners who have bought the device to become members, so it`s all still a bit cloak `n` dagger. We are sorely lacking any RCTs for its use in HPV associated lesions and the one UK pod supplier that heavily promoted it, has recently been stripped of its contract to supply. The only way a UK pod can purchase a device now is directly from the manufacturers Emblation.
  21. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    So, then pretty much like any other option to treat. SWIFT, if they want to be taken seriously, need to cease & desist the cloak N dagger routine. A locked FB page inspires suspicion and mistrust, not conducive to liberating hard earned $$$ from my wallet.

    Thanks Belinda
  22. blinda

    blinda MVP

    It`s been a while since I`ve read posts on Pod Arena and I just clocked the above statement by gdenbyUK.

    First, There is no such thing as a `LIVE virus Vs DEAD virus`. A virus is not considered to be a living organism as they are either a single, or double, strand of DNA (or RNA) and require a host cell to replicate (they cannot pro-create).http://www.virology.ws/2004/06/09/are-viruses-living/

    Second, Microwave technology IS a form of (painful) destructive tissue treatment, as it promotes cell-death via excitement of water molecules and subsequent inflammation.

    That said, I still like the Swift device, as the hypothesis is sound. We`re just lacking any evidence other than the pilot case study that clams a 76% resolution rate (in combo with sal acid) - note: per lesion, not per person - that is frequently quoted.
  23. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    Microwave therapy for the treatment of plantar warts
    Wendy Hagon et al
    J Foot Ankle Res. 2023 Jun 15;16(1):37
  24. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    The treatment of plantar warts using microwave-A review of 85 consecutive cases in the United States
    Aditya K Gupta et al
    J Cosmet Dermatol. 2023 Jun 20
  25. blinda

    blinda MVP

    So...still no RCTs. Nor have I been accepted into the Swift discussion group, despite being told I might be. Six years ago. See above.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2023
  26. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Good to see a retrospective article suggesting a 71% success rate, per patient in this case series article.

    But do note the highlighted 83.3% success rate is per lesion - NOT per person, which then translates as a 71% success rate.

  27. blinda

    blinda MVP

    Just leaving this slide from one of me talks to demonstrate the importance of `per lesion Vs per person` here... upload_2023-9-16_14-52-56.png

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