Top-Up Qualifications for HPC Grandparented

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Hi All!

I was wondering what everyone's views were with regard to top-up qualifications for HPC Grandparented Chiropodists.

It seems obvious that Mark Russel wants us all to sit an exam to 'qualify' in his view as we didn't get an hpc 'recognized' qualification. So that's one view...

The SMAE in conjunction with the APU are running BSc(Hons) Health Care Practice (Podiatry) as a top-up degree. I've got the prospectus and it looks quite good. There is quite a lot in it that I'd benefit from. I'm very tempted to do it. I've got 190 credits already, and need another 170. This costs £3000.

Now.

A good friend who has a DPodM obtained at Uni says that this is a nursing degree and wouldn't cut the mustard was I to apply for an NHS job. I don't want to be an NHS employee, but that a whole new topic I may start later...

The top-up degree does not include skin surgery, only LA (tbc real soon by the hpc I'm told).

If the APU top-up was BSc(Hons) Podiatry I'd have snapped their hand off. But is the APU top-up recognised by anyone? It IS a degree and it's got a LOT of Podiatry in it. It's not on the HPC list but then neither is the Durham top-up.

Do I NEED a degree that is recognised by anyone? I mean knowledge IS knowledge, my non recognised SMAE DipPodMed has done me nicely thus far in my career, but would it be nice to fully join the main-stream???

I HAVE enquired with Durham School of Podiatry. Their top-up is BSc(Hons) Podiatric Medicine, NOT Podiatry. I spoke to them at length and they were vague about whether I could get on it as I didn't have a DPodM gained at uni, but said I was welcome to apply... They also said that a top-up was to broaden knowlege ie getting research techniques, but not to teach new skills as such.

I can apply to Durham to get an LA Certificate via their LA course, at the cost of £1000. This doesn't teach skin surgery either.

I do feel the desire and need to learn more. My friend at the local hospital blows me away sometimes with his Podiatry knowledge (but not all the time). His scope of practice is much wider.

Another course of action is for me to wait for the APU BSc(Hons) Podiatry HPC pre-reg degree when that comes out this year (hopefully) -Any news on that Cameron??? (you know you want to tell us don't you...)

That is to be a mostly distance learning course and one that FHP's can upgrade from. I emailed the APU about that too. They said that why do it as I was already HPC registered.

I've been hanging on a bit because I want to make the best decision, but I do want to get on with it. One thing is certain and that is that I don't want to leave my full time practise and go away to do a 3 year full time course.

Please tell me your thoughts everyone!

Cheers,

Robin.

 

Hpc - Grand-parented Chiropodists.

Hi Robin,
Slightly off your subject but I think of note:- Notice from Mark Russell on ThatFootSite.com 17.2.2005. Scottish Parliament:- Referring Grand-parenting to Health Minister Westminster, and HPC.
Fences raised, everything back in doubt if HPC cave in? Why bother? Now we will see just what this Government and HPC foundations are made of. I hope I'm wrong but our qualifications may be as straw if Mr. Russel and Co. have their way!

Regards,

Colin.

 

P.S. to HPC Grandparented above

Dear all.
Cross ref. Mark Russel and 'Thatfootsite.com' Above it would appear that that site message was not posted by Mark Russel but by someone called David. And guess what? Colin fell for the three card trick. Apologies made to Mark in public as well as in private. My sole, sorry soul cut to the quick! I do hope yours Mark is not to wounded?

With due bowing and scraping to Mark,

Regards,

Colin.

 

Hi Robin,
I don't believe that the APU is much different to pod degrees in the UK. And a DPodM is not of course a degree anyway. The NHS may differentiate, but I would be curious to know on what grounds, and whether they can in fact legally?.
Certainly one case of clear discrimination has come to my notice in the last week where a student on the APU top-up was told by the Chief or District Podiatrist he could only have an NHS placement if he joined the SCP (I advised hime to report this to the HPC so it may come your way!).
BTW, we are looking at the Skin Surgery course issue. Are you still on our mailing list?
Cheers,
David

 

Hi all

I am somewhat in the same boat as you Robin, I am letting the dust settle on this course, there are bount to be a few hick-ups that need to be ironed out, I will probably end up doing it next year, but the problem that presents me is it a health sudies/ life science degree which includes podiatry. With regards to the LA, that panacia of chiropody, will there be any instruction on what exactly to do with it (taking into account with what Davidh has said), or will that be a seperate course/priod of study.

I would be interested to see what level the SMAE courses have been graded at.

cheers

David D

 

Hi Dave,
I really don't see that the APU course is much different (apart from the titles) from the top-up degree in Podiatric Medicine that I did a few years back. Both degrees have a large research methods and stats content, and do not teach new practical clinical skills.

New courses always have a bug or two in them - agree with you there.
On the LA-side, as far as I'm aware there is no skin surgery course available for grandparented, although there will be this year I would think.

I'm a little bemused as to how APU are going to do a podiatric skin surgery course when they don't have any podiatrists on staff, but perhaps they think that GP and nurse skin surgery is the same as podiatric skin surgery?
It's not and we have figures to prove it! Perhaps someone could give me a ref here?
Cheers,
David

 

David,

Please could you clarify what you mean by 'skin surgery' and what 'skin surgery' courses are you referring to? I qualified with BSc(Hons) Podiatry 5 years ago and have used my LA skills for the following:

Nail ablation
Removal of o/c without ablation
Anaesthesia (analgesia) pre-Podiatric surgery (by Consultant Pod Surg - not me!)
Electrosurgery
Debridement of ischaemic ulcers and necrosis under 'day-case' conditions.

I would not say that I perform 'skin surgery' which seems to me to suggest the use of a scalpel to alter epidermal tissue in some way and then closure with sutures eg removal of moles, skin flaps i.e. plastic/cosmetic surgery!

Am I being ignorant in the scope of practice I have? If not, what are these grandparented people expecting from a course like the one you are talking about?

Obviously, this is a little perturbing if previously non-SRCh and HPC-registered Pods are going to be whipping-off potentially malignant bits, possible without Histology services being available!

If HPC-registered LA Pods have a wider scope of practice than I think, then why is it being flogged to the grandparented and not to us?

I am probably ignorant of the situation, so your enlightenment would be much appreciated!

 

Hi Robin

Maybe I can shed some light on the subject. I am the person responsible for the top up program at APU.


>a DPodM obtained at Uni says that this is a nursing degree and wouldn't cut the mustard was I to apply for an NHS job.

The degree has common core units but there are compulsory dedicated podiatry modules. As a licensed practitioner any chiropodist would qualify for membership of a professional body such as the Society or Institute in the UK

>The top-up degree does not include skin surgery, only LA (tbc real soon by the hpc I'm told).

Yes that is the case but would be true for any undergraduate program in the UK.

>If the APU top-up was BSc(Hons) Podiatry I'd have snapped their hand off.

Not sure what you mean. The degree is a BSc(Hons) Health Care Practices (Podiatry)

> But is the APU top-up recognised by anyone?

Some people confuse academic qualification with professional qualification. A Bachelor of Science from a public university anywhere in the western world has reciprocity. No matter what name it goes by the academic structures are similar. So a named degree like podiatry or podiatric medicine are really the same thing. . Chiropody/podiatry have followed a science foundation and hence the academic rigour is the scientific method. If as some people think podiatry is an art, then they should do arts degree – unfortunately there are none?

In all undergraduate degrees of podiatry there is a clinical training which prepares the graduating practitioner in the competencies to practice. Suffice they will meet the rigours of registration. The top up is unique in this respect as the grandparents are already registered.

The top up does include LA because that allows practitioners to increase their current scope of practice.

Come July and grand parenting technically gives the terms podiatry/chiropody closure in the UK. Effectively this will not have an immediate impact on either the private nor public sectors. However with the NHS Agenda for Change the spectrum of foot care will match qualification with recognition to practice podiatry/chiropody. As trusts organise themselves to employ podiatry specialists then this will make a tremendous difference to the foot care business. In future academic qualifications will determine the level of practice specialisation. This will not effect private practice as we know it but if private practitioners become involved in NHS work then grading will again be commensurate with academic qualification. Master level education will probably be the benchmark.

APU and other centres of podiatric education are becoming very alert to the need for flexibility in delivery of their programs. As has happened in many other disciplines the incorporation of distance education has built an expertise and workforce, which can utilise the medium to good effect. If distance programs are adopted and sanctioned by bodies like the HPC then this will revolutionise the current podiatry programs within the UK and elsewhere. The clear statement from the NHS that wants to drive better care through academic qualification will forge the changes, which now challenge podiatrists today.

There is a much much bigger picture here than grand fathering.

The pre-registration program is progression but unlikely to be ready for validation before September.

Cameron

 

Nic and David

The top up degree at APU does contain dedicated modules on pharmacology and local anaesthesia (with practical examination) and pain. This provides a Diploma of Credit and the student may stop there, or progress through the levels, taking specific dedicated modules to complete an Honours degree or unclassified degree.

Studying the scientific method as it applies to health care gives practitioners opportunity to reflect on their current practice, involve evidence based practice, become more informed consumers of the health care industry as well as share inter professional learning.

 I'm a little bemused as to how APU are going to do a podiatry skin surgery course when they don't have any podiatrists on staff, but perhaps they think that GP and nurse skin surgery is the same as podiatric skin surgery?


Well David the simple answer is they will not at undergraduate. Nic I think makes this point well. The way these programs work is Trusts or independent bodies such as SMAE will commission the university to provide and education and training for podiatrists. This will include a comprehensive clinical training, which will involve placements. Unlike the traditional schools the new university courses may not have an on site clinic, but would have access to multi-chair facilities. Queen Margaret College University in Edinburgh operates in this manner and uses off campus facilities to access patients.

All programs require to be approved by the HPC and meet stringent QAA standards. This means far more community involvement in the preparation of the new graduates. Heavy reliance on placement education has already been established in podiatry and was driven a few years back by the Government’s initiative to make non-medical courses, dependent on clinical placement. There are some excellent examples of this around the country (UK) e.g. Northampton and Eastbourne for example.

Once qualified as chiropodist individuals are free to join professional associations and under take CPD. Both academic and professional developments would take place in centres with adequate facility and resources. Gone are the days when the alma mater podiatry department is the provider for all. Here at APU, the intention would be in the future to offer Masters or (M Level units) with the bent towards inter professional collaboration.

This is rather stargazing for APU but already there are several institutes doing this type of development in the UK, University of Central England to name one.

Hope that has cleared u some of the points.

Cameron
Hey, what would I know.

 

Hi Robin
Having re read your posting 17/02/05 many times I need to take issue.
a) What are 'top-up' qualifications?
b) Are you sure that the 'SMAE' are in conjunction with the Anglian Polytechnic University. Have you looked at their Web site. I can find no mention of Podiatry.
c) The DPodM was the original qualification for Chiropody, - issued by the schools of Chiropody who operated under the Further Education System.
When the system changed the FE colleges either produced Degrees or HND's etc.
At that stage the DPodM changed to a BSc and subsequently a BSc (hons).
The 'Top up degrees you read about was the change from DPodM to degree, the difference being academic.
The SMAE never achieved the DPodM status (despite their use of similar 'unprotected letters'. Given that there is no difference between the SMAE course and that of the 'open college', your graduate status is rated as an 'A' level.
d) You do not need a degree to be recognised by anyone
e) The SCP has offered (against many members opinions) a chance to be recognised.

My last statement will produce a vast amount of argument, but in the real world it is true.
Join the SCP, it is your last chance for many years.
If you want to stick with SMAE and support their fight to continue producing frustrated/ committed practitioners like yourself OK.
To be truthful why should any ex SRCh bother ?
Perhaps because the forcefulness of your arguments makes me believe there is hope, but that belief is undermined by the new profession of FHP's.

Davidh
You are a good confuser.
Very impressed by your argument for the validity of your theory of Bio mechanics.
The great thing about 'evidence' it's always available to support an argument. Good fun for an undergraduate but ? Post grad

 

Cameron
My reply was after your diatribe.
I hope it is not compared with you description of the future.
While I have followed your 'learn-ed' contributions with respect I now have to say you have come out of the cupboard as an 'educator' and not a Podiatrist.
What is an Ossie doing interfering in UK politics.
Respect for your history of shoe.
Why are you selling out the rest

 

Having just listened to Gordon Brown
Education is a buisness and we are a good provider.
Labour
Stuff academia!

 

David

a) What are 'top-up' qualifications?

These are conversion degrees. It is an accelerated BSc (Hons) in two years. Not easy.

b) Are you sure that the 'SMAE' are in conjunction with the Anglian Polytechnic University.

There is a memorandum of agreement between the bodies.

The DPodM was the original qualification for Chiropody, - issued by the schools of Chiropody who operated under the Further Education System.

Not exactly right. In the dark and dim, successful students were given a certificate of attestation when they completed their training at recognised schools throughout the UK. This certificate would allow practitioners to become State Registered and apply for professional body membership. The two main bodies were the Institute and the Society, but there were others. The diploma in podiatric medicine was introduced much later and rather protentiously, I feel, deceptively to appear as a DPM. Could never really understand that one, however these were given all graduates and available retrospectively to all state registered practitioners.

Chiropody and the professionals allied to medicine were an attractive proposition to developing universities and polytechnics interested in pooling large nursing and paramedical groups to develop into a research source which would compete with the traditional medical faculties of redbrick universities. Eager to follow the tend professional association like the Society who had previously had a mandate for education lost that control to the autonomous universities. The degrees which followed were determined by local circumstance in conjunction with the Registration Board, Society and employers, the names were arbitrary but the level of academic study became the consistent factor. Clinical training was based on competencies developed by the profession, led principally by Prof Robert Ashford.


When the system changed the FE colleges either produced Degrees or HND's etc.
At that stage the DPodM changed to a BSc and subsequently a BSc (hons).

In most cases the degree levels were in situ form the beginning.

The 'Top up degrees you read about was the change from DPodM to degree, the difference being academic.

They are certainly two different animals

The SMAE never achieved the DPodM status (despite their use of similar 'unprotected letters'. Given that there is no difference between the SMAE course and that of the 'open college', your graduate status is rated as an 'A' level.

All is academic now because people who are grand parented are effectively registered now. These progressing onto top up degrees are progressing along an academic pathway. All will pick up a Dilpoma of Credit in the use of LA as part of their journey.
c) You do not need a degree to be recognised by anyone.

This is true and podiatry is not an all graduate (degree) profession. This is unlikely to occur in my lifetime but the work place is changing and whereas before academic qualifications were not negotiable re remuneration this is likely to change. The NHS Agenda for change clearly outlines a new structure where practice and academic qualification are matched. Everyone involved in NHS will need to look at their academic level and not just CPD to practice niche specialities.
d) The SCP has offered (against many members opinions) a chance to be recognised.

Not exactly but the professional associations are obliged to observe the government’s HPC and if they recognise practitioners are competent to register, then all registered chiropodists with bone fide crudentials would be eligible membership.


e)
My last statement will produce a vast amount of argument, but in the real world it is true.
Join the SCP, it is your last chance for many years.
The real world - change has already swept way many of the bastions of yesteryear and the big picture shows major overhaul of foot care in the UK is upon the profession now. Driven not by podiatry but by bigger, more powerful agenda, which is not likely to disappear. Some might welcome the change and see for the first time a more proactive foot care workforce, others may be less enthusiastic.


f) If you want to stick with SMAE and support their fight to continue producing frustrated/ committed practitioners like yourself OK.
To be truthful why should any ex SRCh bother ?

After July no organisation can produce chirpodists/podiatrists in the UK other than at recognised centres sanction by HPC etc.


Perhaps because the forcefulness of your arguments makes me believe there is hope, but that belief is undermined by the new profession of FHP's.

This tier is a legitimate tier of workforce sanction by the NHS Agenda for Change. This will eventual impact on the private sector as more responsible authorities take up the foot health paradigm into their ancilliary services such as diabetic screening.

I suppose if you need to blame someone, blame Tony Blair.

Cameron
Hey, what do I know.?

 

REG

I hope it is not compared with you description of the future.
While I have followed your 'learn-ed' contributions with respect I now have to say you have come out of the cupboard as an 'educator' and not a Podiatrist.

By chance REG have you ever checked my cv? Worth doing.

What is an Ossie doing interfering in UK politics.

Dual nationality actually, and rather well read on international podiatry matters. But we are all entitled to our opinion. That is the great thing about the ARENA.


Respect for your history of shoe.

Thanks

Why are you selling out the rest

Hey, I dont make the rules, I just do a job. What I have said today was in direct respone to questions and points. No opinion.

The drive for all of this change (uncomfortable as they may be) come from Government. Check out the agenda for change NHS Website . Univerisities are merely preparing to facilitate workforces for the biggest change in the national health system in the UK has ever witnessed. No one is playing around this is serious business which will impact on carers all in the name of better foot health for the people who really matter, our patients.

Podiatry is just a very small part of that. Australia too will mirror these changes and hence it makes it all the more worthwhile for us all to discuss this on an international platform .

Cheers
CK.

 

Thanks Cameron,
I have no issue with APU or the SMAE/APU partnership. I do have some issue with the way skin surgery (the old term for TNA, PNA, electrosurgery and all the other bits we were taught years ago - Nic) being taught as a quickie course (but this was obviously rumour). Anyway there was never any suggestion of biopsy or the other things Nic was concerned about.

Cameron, I understand about top-up quals, so were you confusing me with R.E.G?

Best of luck Cameron - you have my support.
Cheers,
David

 

Cameron / David
With respect yes I am aware of your CV.
I come from a very humble academic background, but one I hope reflects the concerns of the day to day practitioner.
My undergraduate influence was Rossi and I have a an extensive collection of shoe art.
If we are to have a debate lets ignore money and use 'evidence' trading CV's is what is causing the failure of the SRCh's and unregistered pods to unite.
Lets be truthful there is a financial interest for the academics to continue the argument.
Cameron
What do your Ossie BSc students think of your crediting non BSc pods?
With respect
Bob

 

Hi Bob,
Obviously I can't answer for Cameron, but I can give you my own view for what it's worth.

We have two situations in the UK. Both are fact, both have happened, and no amount of arguing or debate will change them.

The first is Grandparenting. This is here to stay.
If grandparented podiatrists then wish to go on and learn via a top-up degree (and of course they don't have to do this since they are already HPC-reg) this is entirely laudable. A top-up degree, taken whilst holding down a job, is no picnic. I've made the point before that the APU top-up is not much different to the top-up degree in Pod Med I did a few years back.

The second is Foot Health Professionals. I might remind you that whilst the private Schools are training Foot Health Professionals, so is the Dept of Health (although to a lesser extent I grant you). the NHS-trained FHP's are called something else, but essentially they use scalpels, work on feet, and are not podiatrists. If you check elsewhere on this forum you will see that other countries have this situation too, so it's not unique to the UK.

I've seen this same argument/debate in various forms over the years.
Here are two from the 1970's.
"Why should chiropodists be allowed to perform surgery?"
"The 2-year course is not as comprehensive as the three-year course - thats why the Podiatry Association is only open to three-year course graduates".
And from the last round of grandparenting, in 1966 I believe. This one is historic since I wasn't around at the time.
"Why should we let them in. They haven't trained properly".

None of the fuss made at the time prevented change. It won't this time either. What will work is accepting the situation we currently have and working to improve it.
Regards,
David

 

Netizens

To set the record straight I am an instructional designer that specialises in clinical education. That's it. I started off as a chiropodist and have retrained three or four times over. Whilst I continued to work in podiatry departments teaching, my skills as a curriculum builder, first in the UK when diplomas were being converted to degrees , then in New Zealand and more recently in Australia building Masters by distance programs, were very much in demand.

My role at APU is principally to oversee a new distance program, no more, no less. My employer is an educational establishment so I guess my loyalty is to them. After all they poay my salary.


I realise issues of professional ownership are emotive but facts are more likely to rule. This is a changing world and access and flexiblity to life long learning has forged a new order. Universities are not charties and need to chase the pound, just like anyone else seeking to survive in business. These institutes are reponding to major political change within the UK and elsewhere and programs of podiatry have closed (Central England, Chelsea and London Foot) have already closed as a result.

The need for change is very evident for all to see.


Cameron
Hey, what do I know?

 

Absolutely. Taking into account all the changes you've experienced with the profession in the Oceanic countries, and looking at the way the system of healthcare is being constructured in the UK, what do you feel the profession needs to do in order to adapt in a way that would end the obvious difficulties and divisions that pervade podiatry at every level?

In particular, what would you consider to be the best model for podiatry to adopt in terms of practice structure, and what educational programme is best suited to develop and sustain that environment?

 

>Absolutely. Taking into account all the changes you've experienced with the profession in the Oceanic countries, and looking at the way the system of healthcare is being constructured in the UK, what do you feel the profession needs to do in order to adapt in a way that would end the obvious difficulties and divisions that pervade podiatry at every level?

Remember I am only the piano player, so don't shoot me.

I think all our destinies are already cast through the NHS's published agenda for change. The comprehensive foot care model is there with academic qualifactions appended and Trusts are intent in delivering that model. HPC will continue to facilitate this through their on going registration role.


>In particular, what would you consider to be the best model for podiatry to adopt in terms of practice structure, and what educational programme is best suited to develop and sustain that environment?

If the above is true, then the di is cast and professional bodies (or more likey members of professional bodies) need to come to terms with the new governance, for there is no going back.

Whilst the major changes are directed at the public sector more involvement of the private sector into the NHS system is likely and hence changes will influence the foot health market place, throughout. Greater competiton is likely to arise and the need to consolidate specialist status through academic qualification and training will become all the more apparent. As is seen now the universities and other agencies are preparing to facilitate change and not just for chiropody.

I believe (what, do I know), the role of the general practitioner chiropodist is severely challenged now, and specialisation all the more attractive to those practioners who wish to progress through the system as rcognised experts by undertaking lifelong learning. In essence this is no different to the stated desires of practitioners for many years, only now, it is likely to happen.


Cheers
Cameron
Hey, what do I know

 

I think that’s a fair synopsis of how our professional landscape is being shaped and by whom, but do you feel that these changes are in the best interests of the profession or the best interests of the government and NHS?

Again I would agree, but given that 90% of this profession is engaged in general practice (whatever training/educational route one has taken) and that percentage more than likely reflects the actual demand from the public for our care, do you think that developing 'specialisations' (assuming chiropody or podiatry is not a specialisation in its own right) rather than general practice is sustainable for a profession of circa. 16,000 and if so, how do you envisage the profession will be structured at the end of that process?

 

Mark

Quote:

I think that’s a fair synopsis of how our professional landscape is being shaped and by whom, but do you feel that these changes are in the best interests of the profession or the best interests of the government and NHS?

To be direct, probably the patient, pressured via the government and NHS. Certainly I would expect that would be the justification given for this momentous move. As to whether it works out that way, only time will tell.

Quote:
Again I would agree, but given that 90% of this profession is engaged in general practice (whatever training/educational route one has taken) and that percentage more than likely reflects the actual demand from the public for our care, do you think that developing 'specialisations' (assuming chiropody or podiatry is not a specialisation in its own right) rather than general practice is sustainable for a profession of circa.

As I said previously I believe the future role of the general practitioner is in slight jeopardy. Or at least the road to recognised specialisation will come through CPD and or post basic education. Practitoners will need to show verification for their scope of practice. In the NHS grading will depend on qualiication and in the private sector should helath insurance become then norm then preferred providers would potentially have the same effect.

Meantime the brokers in all these changes are initially likely to be the Health Service managers working to create a more comprehensive foot care service within the public sector.


Whilst it is comparatively easy to see fiscal justification for surgical podiatrists,this specialty represents less than 2% of the total workforce and may have already plateauxed. But have already shown themselves as the most likely foot specialism recognised interprofessionally.


I would anticipate acute diabetes care as an area where specialisation could be supported, especially if grouped together with a population living with lower leg morbidity. This I believe would become a growth area.


Eldery community will always have a podiatric need and would contunue to provide the greatest clinical focus.


It may be difficult to support through the mono interests such as podopaediatrics and sports podiatry but within the umberella of locomotor managment and rehabilitation, specialist podiatrists with biomechanics training would provide a worthwhile addition to hosptial and community.

I think the private sector will continue to thrive and cater for more niche care areas. I would not be surprised to see franchising with "Foot and Ankle" High Street clinics becoming more popular.

Cameron
Hey, what do I know?

 

Cameron

I would agree, up to a point, that the profession is undergoing many changes in its structure in relation to general practice and specialisations. In the main these adjustments are simply a necessary and desirable part of the transition to a mature and established profession. However, in the mad rush to escape the perceived drudgery of general practice for pastures new, it should be remembered where the greatest demand comes from and who caters for that demand at present.

I feel that one of the contributing factors behind the drive to specialisation is the craving to improve one’s status and eliminate the low esteem you commented on earlier last week. This phenomenon is much more prevalent in the old state registered sector and by association, the NHS, and conversely, this is where we find the greatest drive away from general podiatry to the niche areas. Perhaps this had something to do with the scope of the diploma/degree educational programme and the subsequent frustration some colleagues feel (“Hey, we’re too qualified to cut nails and corns”) when presented with the realities of the workplace. As a result, there is a tendency to portray foot health needs into two distinct areas – social care and medical care – and an unspoken desire to categorise the clinicians who work in these areas as chiropodists and podiatrists, respectfully. However the regulatory regime does not reflect these changes and that is a problem, but if the HPC were to establish a licensing structure within the regulatory format, then that may address some of these issues. But that has yet to be proposed.

Bearing in mind all of the foregoing, what would you suggest be the best way for the profession to structure its undergraduate education in future? Clearly there is not the need for thirteen colleges teaching degree level podiatry as an entry-level qualification but there is a requirement for a diploma in podology or chiropody. How do we get to that point without self-destructing and who is best placed to deliver these programmes - the established schools or the emerging establishments like APU?

Mark

 

Quote
However the regulatory regime does not reflect these changes and that is a problem, but if the HPC were to establish a licensing structure within the regulatory format, then that may address some of these issues. But that has yet to be proposed.

I would agree with you there, Mark.

In Australia many of my teaching colleagues would like to see more specialisation recognised by the State Registration Boards I believe only surgeons at this time have that privilege. This would certainly open the flood gates to post graduate education initiatives like professional and academic master degrees. The same goes for the UK.

Quote:
Bearing in mind all of the foregoing, what would you suggest be the best way for the profession to structure its undergraduate education in future?

In an ideal world and taking into account the changing overlying structures now in place this would be a good time for a needs analysis of the profession, to identify the qualities of the foot physician of 2010. Core curriculum and clinical training would follow meeting the criteria of the customer (profession) and (supplier(s)) university and NHS. Only by this means would you see a new order form.

Personally I believe the currrent undergraduate curriculum to be over stuffed with content. I think it could be stream lined at no cost to the graduating competent foot physician. For what it is worth I would like to explore double degrees with business. As you say most of the graduates engage private practice and could be made more aware of the potential this lucrative options holds.

QUOTE:
Clearly there is not the need for thirteen colleges teaching degree level podiatry as an entry-level qualification but there is a requirement for a diploma in podology or chiropody. How do we get to that point without self-destructing?

I think what you may find is rather than fewer centres of podiatric education in the future there will be more universities cater for, and compete with the 13, at present. Growth is likely to come in the post graduate areas with inter professional learning, a key area.

Learner accessibility and flexibility mean existing courses will need to be available as full time and part- time options. These already exist in the UK and I believe all centres will become involved in delivering these programs. The general population of students in training has been on the decline of late although there are sign of a reversal but this may be only a blip as opposed to a trend. However with a drop in the full time population, then part-time students becomes a viable option. Also NHS trusts may influence the demographic of their local centres of podiatric education by favouring part time training. Flailing fortunes, graduate entry Masters programs are a good earner for the institutions and offer accelerated entry into the professions. Economics alone would make this an attractive option to any university . For example in Scotland – a four-year program down to a two-year course, think of the money you would save as a student. The competition between the two Scottish universities is so severe to make both offer the same options.

Cross credit accumulation with on gong CPD would be another attractive option to no traditional chiropody core universities. Rated at M -level (Masters Level) these give the part time student bridges and ladders to academic qualifications. There is at least one example of this in operation in the UK.

I believe most of the existing 13 will incorporate ancillary training as part of their remit hence offering a range of qualification from Foot Care Diploma to Doctorate.

The centres in the UK with foot hospital facilities in situ are more likely to be used as teaching hospitals and those with specific facilities such as bone suites will be used more and more as central learning centres for the country. Look at the surgical premises and facilities at Glasgow’s Southern General for example with its close association with the Department of Orthopeadics it is a perfect centre for surgical training.

Unless you had a grant from Scholl’s, there would be no point in trying to compete with this unique facility.

What I am saying is there will be centralisation of dedicated space and inter unversity collaboration.


Cameron
Hey, what do I know.

 

......and a timely announcement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4289125.stm

 

Cameron
First may I apologies if my recent posting could have been construed as impolite.
Your above postings have been excellent in explaining your view of the Podiatry world, and your further posting on subsequent events continue to illuminate us all.
Certainly it has made me reflect on the positions I held and may well modify them in the future.

 

Hi R.E.G. no need to apologise to me. My role is to jolly along the conversation.

Cheers
Cameron