Barefoot Running Debate

This clinical trial has just been registered:

Footwear Minimalism Study

 

Interesting.
How are they going to define 'neutral foot type'? And why have they have distinguished foot type? I thought minimalist shoes fix everyone....

 

In the most recent study done by this group, they used the Foot Posture Index, so I assume that is how they could be doing this.

 

Ok now I can see- they are using the FPI...
From the Trial Website-
---------------
Criteria
Inclusion Criteria:

Minimum of 5 years experience running
Have been running on a regular basis (minimum once per week) over the past 6 months
Able to run for 60 minutes continuously
Can tolerate 20-40km per week in training
Neutral foot posture according to the Foot Posture Index.

Exclusion Criteria:

Have not experienced a running related injury requiring a stoppage of 2-weeks or more in the past 6 months
History of surgery to their plantar fascia or Achilles tendon
Have already been running in a minimalist shoe
Have a diagnosis of osteoarthritis - or other degenerative musculoskeletal disorder - affecting the lower extremity
Are currently taking analgesic medication.

--------------------------

So by the inclusion criteria I guess they are simply looking at running aches rather than any real injury...

You know that if there are injuries in the minimalist group that it will because they didn't adapt gradually enough...

 

In addition, why can't beginning runners be used in the study? Why do the runners need to be experienced? Also, why can't one group of runners be able to self-select their own shoes, one group of runners be given Nike Frees and the third group of runners be given Vibram Five-Fingers?

My hypothesis if the above research was done??? The hypothesis is that participants using the minimalist footwear during their running program will experience an increase in running related pain. A greater degree of footwear minimalism will result in an increase in pain and injury (compared to their self-selected running shoe).:butcher::boxing:

 

I wonder why they have chosen people with only 'neutral foot types' (as per FPI) when the average foot type from sampled populations is generally shown to be mildly to moderately pronated...

So, lets say their hypothesis is proven, and that the more minimalist shoes do indeed result in a reduction of running related pain (all other methodological flaws aside). Can you imagine the passion with which the barefoot running community would quote this study? (I can see all of their blog headlines now!) Yet due to the sample used in the study it would actually be applicable to only a very small sub section of the population

 

A year ago, I posted that. I did the Run 4 The Kids again yesterday; 33 000 runners; I organized a team of people this time to look for barefoot runners; we spotted two !!!!!; one barefoot and one in Vibrams. By all reports the one in barefoot was very lucky to not get his lights punched out by runners around him for being such an a....hole.

So that was 2 out of 33 000; there were probably more that we missed, so lets say there might have been ~20 (pure guess, but probably more than there really was), so that means that that barefoot runners made up 0.0006% .... so Kevin is probably right: they make a lot of noise online (including giving life threatening advice to people with diabetes), but in reality they are an insignificant minority.

 

Craig, I have found the same thing to be true at big marathons. I don't understand your point though. I have been logging over 60 miles per week for years and years, over the past year I started running half of those 60 miles per week in Vibram FiveFingers. The other half in other minimal shoes such as the New Balance Minimus or Nike Free 3.0. All of these shoes weigh 7 OZ or less. On race day, I run in the Nike LunaRacer or the Nike Marathon Racer. They both look like traditional running shoes in spite of the fact that they also weigh 7.0 OZ.

I am just an example of someone who happens to show up on race day with different shoes than I train in. Racing has different demands than training which I believe calls for a different shoe. Is it possible that you are observing other people like me? That for that special day, people have special shoes that are different than what they wear or do for the other 364 days?

Dana, who no longer likes to run in traditional 12 OZ running shoes.

 

I hear that you are limping after that :dizzy:

 

Craig:

Here is the article from where I was quoted:

http://www.samuelmerritt.edu/president/news_room/sep_2010/barefoot-running-only-growing-online-ca-

 

I've just completed my lecture, "Barefoot vs Shod Running: Which is Best?" which I am giving at the Western Foot and Ankle Conference in Anaheim in June and in a debate with Dr. Irene Davis at a Physical Therapy seminar in Long Beach in September. Here is the summary slide for the lecture after my review of all the available literature on barefoot vs shod running, for all those interested.

 

I'm intrigued in knowing what this guy was doing/saying. I also wonder how he compared at the finish to those he was annoying at the start.

I also have these shoes (I think)... I was given a pair of Nike LunaRacers (I think - must check - certainly in the Luna range though) to test out. Being that I predominantly train in the Nike 3.0 I found these rather bulky (i.e. thick midsole). The Nike Marathon Racer (the one with the gold stripe down the side - believe was designed for Paula Radcliffe) too feels a bit odd on my feet these days for running/racing - hence I now wear them as a casual shoe. Albeit, I haven't raced for a while thus I must test these out on a tempo run/time trial.

I also would have thought these two shoes would weigh a bit more than 7 oz - I'll weigh mine (which are size 11) - albeit, I think shoe weights are based on size 9.

Good point - probably a wise thing to do regardless. I've often stated that barefoot running/Vibram running is a good training aid (to varying degrees for some)... but... would not be a good racing option due to the usual harder terrain (also safety uncertainty of event courses). There is also the usual race objective to get from A to B as quickly & efficiently as possible... which is my objective in a race (I just generally wouldn't do a race for the sake of a run - that's for training). Racing thus entails more speed, greater range of motion, greater loading forces, greater applied force & thus greater friction (i.e. push off)... thus...

Racing thus (should) entails ensuing that all of one's energy/resources (i.e. strength & endurance) goes into getting to the finish line as quickly as possible at one's given period of physical fitness - not having muscles spend a percentage chunk on addressing the optimal cushion/stiffness relationship (i.e. on asphalt/concrete); not have the soles of one's foot possibly blister (from excess friction) to the point where one could be losing time/speed as a result of painful sores or other associated wounds from running with no protection in unfamiliar territory. I feel either (or both) of these factors plays some degree of influence/outcome when deciding or performing a race barefoot.

 

Would this be the case in a race environment? Wouldn't the tests done by Dr Jack Daniels contradict this based on the harder surfaces?

 

Here is the latest research which was not done at a race pace. No research, so far, tells us why barefoot runners are slower in races than those racing in shoes.

 

I only have a couple of second hands reports, but he was just being obnoxious and arrogant and disrespectful to his fellow runners (probably nothing to do with him being barefoot, unless barefoot running attracts the more obnoxious, arrogant and disrespectful types).... but if you imagine a run with 33 000 people, there is going to be more than a little bit of a bottleneck at the start line and first few corners .... people need to behave themselves and be polite, respect those around them etc etc ... but apparently this a-hole was pushing and jostling people to get out of his way. More than a few runners around him were close to whacking him one...

 

All Virtual, although you have to applaud the manufacturers for taking the Hans Christian Andersen route to barefoot shoe design

As they say in Yorkshire - 'There's now't as queer as folk'

 

Craig, I agree that you and Kevin are probably right. My point is that I don't think you can go to a race and try to count people to reach a valid conclusion that supports your opinion. I am questioning your assumption that what people do on race day with respect to their feet is the same as what they do the other 364 days of the year. I used myself as an example who doesn't fit your assumption.

I am only guessing but I would tend to agree that only a small fraction of people actually run barefoot. Whether it is in training on race day or both. I come to that conclusion because with my extensive experience as a runner, I know how impractical it really is. I'll spare you the long list of reasons why I find it impractical.

If only a small proportion of the modern population are actually routinely running barefoot, why all the commotion about it? Who cares?

I'm grateful for all of the attention it has gotten even though it may be virtual. It has gotten the shoe companies attention and they are coming out with a lot of new models of minimal shoes using current technology that I personally am benefiting from. Of course I am fortunate enough to be able to wear minimal shoes so I'm can take advantage of being able to run in shoes with very low mass.

As Podiatrists, rather than worry about the two people who run barefoot, there might be more to contribute by looking at the range of minimal shoes that are out in the market today and which shoes if any would work best for your clients or not at all.

I do need to remember that your clients are clients because there is probably some pathology. In that case, minimal shoes probably aren't the recommended choice in footwear. On the other hand, minimal shoes may be exactly what may be required to help build certain weak areas that the client is experiencing.

Dana

 

There are a number of potentials here: shorter stride length should result in increased leg stiffness, which should result in a higher natural frequency of the "leg spring" and shorter contact times and reduced knee, hip and ankle flexion = decreased muscular work, perhaps helping to account for metabolic cost differences. However, you are not going to cover so much ground with one stride when barefoot. Interesting, to note that while Bolt has a lower step frequency than his rivals, his huge stride eats up the ground.

Higher loading rate and tibial accelerations- faster rate of loading + viscoelastic tissues = increased tissue stiffness. All comes down to where the individual is within their zone of optimal leg stiffness, if they're already functioning at their upper limits of stiffness, this'll push them into their zone of pathological leg stiffness- stress fracture territory.

Mass on the foot and metabolic cost- see Shorten attached. Yet also we have the McMahon research which shows decreasing surface stiffness can improve performance, decrease metabolic cost and reduce injury rate (see paper attached) so it's a pay off between increased mass, increasing metabolic cost and optimised surface stiffness reducing metabolic cost, get the balance right and you should still be more economical when shod.

 

Here are Ryan Hall’s views on barefoot running. Ryan just recently came 4th in the Boston marathon in a great time of 2.04: 58.



Notice how Ryan felt the need to state... "I don't want to offend anyone out there, but..." before putting across his opinion. Obviously he too is aware of the emotions & subsequent controversy this topic attracts.

PS... does anyone out there have this race (2011 Boston Marathon) on i.e. DVD, or know of a way to get hold of it... it sounded like a fantastic race.

Geoffrey Mutai ran the fastest marathon ever recorded with a time of 2:03:02... but the Boston Marathon is not a course on which a world record can be set due to its net downhill altitude, & separation of the start & finish line by over half of the race distance. Mutai's run included a phenomenal 10km split between 30km & 40km of 28:24 .

 

Thanks - Ben - nice video,
Ryan has a very good attitude - well until some 'dude' passes him barefoot that is :dizzy:

 

and Moses Mosop was only 4 seconds behind... on debut!
Apparently there was a pretty significant tailwind

 

Nice summary of that HERE

 

If I'm ever going to run a race barefoot, I'm going to do it like this guy....the Barefoot Caveman.......

...but I think I will be wearing a talus and calcaneus around my neck during the race......

 

Who remembers Unshod Anish? This video reminded me of the comments he posted in the The Effect of Running Shoes on Lower Extremity Joint Torques thread claiming

He never came back to answer the response that what he was claiming was a insult to intelligence of the elite runners. Does anyone really believe that Ryan Hall is so stupid that he would not be looking for any advantage he can get? He would have a team of experts around him looking for every advantage that they can find for him. If barefoot running could give him an advantage, then he would be doing it. To claim that he is biased against barefoot running because of the $ of the running shoe companies and fear stoked by podiatrists is really an insult to the intelligence of him and the team of people around him.

 

Just found a great "running card" of Abebe Bikila which I believe was made soon after his 1960 Rome Marathon barefoot performance.

 

Kevin, it might be a good point to start spending more time and effort on the simple pleasure of running or do injuries prevent you from doing much running at this point? Maybe it's your shoes.

Dana, who at age 54 spends over 3 hrs per day exercising injury free.

 

Dana:

It might be a good point to start spending some more time and effort on studying the science of foot and lower extremity biomechanics, or does your 3 hours of exercising injury free per day prevent you from doing so? Maybe its your shoe obsession?

 

Kevin, true happiness is what is most important in life. I have found that, I hope you have as well.

Dana

 

Kevin, given the choice, I will always choose to be a participant rather than a spectator. The operative term is choice which I have, do you?

Dana

 

netizens

Interesting podcast on barefoot running
http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2011/04/hrt_20110425.mp3

toeslayer

 

From the Australasian Podiatry Conference

 

Thank you Toeslayer and Mark for sharing the podcast and video. Both are very interesting and full of great comments, insights and perspective.

Dana, who joyfully ran 14 miles on trails in Colorado this morning in VFF.

 

My 2 cents.. I'm pretty sure the the big reason most people get running injuries is because they try do too much too soon. Shoes or no shoes. Why not just train properly in the first place.
Maybe one reason barefoot runners claim they get cured of their injuries is that with out knowing they reduce the km's, intensity, etc and slowly build up (10% rule etc) because thats what their barefoot running guru told them... Its the same thing we tell our shod patients to do, but some will only listen to there 'experienced' runner friend.
Cheers
Nick

 

Is running outside of the runners metabolically efficient speed going negate this pretty rapidly?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...20d2e85219f17c8959252ce51b6377ec&searchtype=a

 

Chris McDougall, author of the novel, Born to Run, is at it again...........

Barefoot Runner Ticketed For Not Having Permits

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/05/12/2709097/barefoot-runner-ticketed-for-not.html

Thanks for this one, Craig. Made my day!:drinks

 

Just had this "google alert" sent to my inbox... (short passage posted here)

Why Does Walking Barefoot on the Earth Make You Feel Better?

May 18th, 2011
By Dr. Mercola

Do you notice you feel better when you walk barefoot on the Earth?

Recent research has explained why this happens. Your immune system functions optimally when your body has an adequate supply of electrons, which are easily and naturally obtained by barefoot contact with the Earth. Research indicates that electrons from the Earth have antioxidant effects that can protect your body from inflammation and its many well-documented health consequences.

For most of our evolutionary history, humans have had continuous contact with the Earth. It is only recently that substances such as asphalt, wood, rugs, and plastics have separated us from this contact.

It is known that the Earth maintains a negative electrical potential on its surface. When you are in direct contact with the ground (walking, sitting, or laying down on the earth’s surface) the earth’s electrons are conducted to your body, bringing it to the same electrical potential as the earth. Living in direct contact with the earth grounds your body, inducing favorable physiological and electrophysiological changes that promote optimum health.

There is an emerging science documenting how conductive contact with the Earth, which has is also known as Earthing or grounding, is highly beneficial to your health and completely safe. Earthing appears to minimize the consequences of exposure to potentially disruptive fields like “electromagnetic pollution” or “dirty electricity.”

Some of the recent evidence supporting this approach involves multiple studies documenting Earthing’s improvement in blood viscosity, heart rate variability, inflammation, cortisol dynamics, sleep, autonomic nervous system (ANS) balance, and reduced effects of stress.

The Ultimate Antioxidant and Anti-Inflammatory
Grounding or Earthing is defined as placing one’s bare feet on the ground whether it be dirt, grass, sand or concrete (especially when humid or wet). When you ground to the electron-enriched earth, an improved balance of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system occurs.

The Earth is a natural source of electrons and subtle electrical fields, which are essential for proper functioning of our immune systems, circulation, synchronization of biorhythms and other physiological processes and may actually be the most effective, essential, least expensive, and easiest to attain antioxidant.

Modern science has thoroughly documented the connection between inflammation and all of the chronic diseases, including the diseases of aging and the aging process itself. It is important to understand that inflammation is a condition that can be reduced or prevented by grounding your body to the Earth the way virtually all of your ancestors have done for hundreds if not thousands of generations.

How the Modern Running Shoe Maybe Destroying Your Health

Materials such as metals are electrical conductors. They contain free or mobile electrons that can carry electrical energy from place to place.

Your body is somewhat conductive because it contains a large number of charged ions (called electrolytes) dissolved in water. Your blood and other body fluids are therefore good conductors. Free or mobile electrons can also move about within your body

Other materials, called insulators, have very few free or mobile electrons. Plastic and rubber are good insulators and are used to cover electrical wires to keep the conductors from touching each other and from touching your skin, which could otherwise give you a shock.

Traditionally shoes were made of leather, which actually conducts electrons and therefore maintains a conductive contact between the Earth and your feet. However modern day rubber and plastics are electrical insulators and therefore block the beneficial flow of electrons from the Earth to your body.

Really? - Tom

 

Barefoot Running Claims and Controversies
A Review of the Literature
David W. Jenkins and David J. Cauthon
Journal of the American Podiatric Medical Association
Volume 101 Number 3 231 -246 2011

 

I did yet another interview on barefoot running and minimalist shoes about 4 months ago for Triathlon Magazine Canada that was published a couple of months ago.

For anyone who is still interested.....here it is.....

http://triathlonmagazine.ca/2011/05/sections/gear/run-gear/run-shoes/the-new-era-of-running-shoes/