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Barefoot Running = Forefoot Striking

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by drsha, Jun 10, 2010.

  1. drsha

    drsha Banned

    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    The debate on barefoot running will be one that focuses the shoe industry, the running elite establishment and the medical community as to the advantages/disadvantages of rearfoot vs. midfoot and forefoot striking in gait.

    The difference is that the court of public opinion will be involved in the outcome on this one and from my biased position as a Vaulter and aggressive forefoot modifier and poster, I believe that the Dananberg’s, Glaser’s and Shavelson’s will win out against the rearfoot striking Rootian's and SALREers

    Dr Sha
  2. Dennis you post show how much you just don´t get.

    Ground reaction Force ( GRF) will have an effect on STJ moments if the person is a forefoot striker, midfoot striker and or rearfoot striker. Depending on the position of the STJ axis the GRF vectors will cause STJ supination, pronation moments or nothing.

    So once again go and do some reading.

    ps forefoot posting is also very important in SALRE, but you would know that if you did some reading.

    I´ll also add that Tissue stress is what more important identify the tissue under stress and by using mechancis work out how to reduce the forces on the stress tissue. So if you want a challange, I vote for the tissue stress approach to treatment to win.
  3. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    This thread is just going over stuff that has been gone over many times in many other threads. It closed. Please keep it in the other threads. I will remove thos one tomorrow.
  4. admin

    admin Administrator Staff Member

    Okay, I hav changed my mind. The thread can stay open. BUT, please keep it on topic and NO taking pot shots at people.
  5. Ok Dennis.

    I´m going to ask you a question a barefoot runner comes into your clinic. How are you going to treat them successfully ? If you want we can say that the patient has either metatarsal pain, no stress fracture or achilles tendon pain . The 2 most common complaints as far as I can see with barefoot running.

  6. Come on Dennis, I know you have read the thread.

    Here the problem that you have with your 1st post. Barefoot running indicates, running while not wearing shoes. Due to the change in mechanics people tend to Forefoot strike while running barefoot ( which you stated ).

    Now you also stated that your and others treatment will be more successful than others ( for only reasons that you and maybe only you understand), But there is a huge hole in your arguement. These folks are barefoot running, no shoes, so unless you are going to pull out a nail gun and nail your device to their feet your in a little trouble.

    Now my 1st call for treatment after identified what tissue is understress, as I indicated the metatarsal and achilles most likely candidates would be to get them back into running with shoes. In most cases they will revert to heel striking due to the change in lever arms and other physics related stuff. We will then get awhole different form of mechancial running.
  7. drsha

    drsha Banned

    I started this thread to debate the issue of whether the center of the biomechanical universe is the subtalar joint or the peroneus longus tendon and the mechanical stability and performance of the first ray in function (or both).

    Historically, in the seventies there were two schools of thought that were parented from the “arch support” generation which eventually became known as East Coast and West Coast.

    The East Coast School took the work of the arch supporters and Dr. Root and led by Dr. Dananberg and more currently by Dr. Glaser and myself have focused on sagital and transverse correction of foot and postural complaints by treating the vault of the foot and/or the first ray complex. Today, I would explain that this School is based on a gait cycle that has a greater forefoot contact than Murray's.

    I have been utilizing thermoplastics, vaulting, extrinsic forefoot posting and first ray cutouts for almost thirty years almost exclusively.

    The West Coast School, founded on the work of Elftman and nurtured by Mann, Inman and their followers was that the subtalar joint was “the heart of the foot from a biomechanical point of view”. Root delivered the subtalar joint as the sun of the foot and postural universe and Dr. Kirby has maintained that position in his writings and teachings. It focuses on frontal plane care of the rearfoot based on “The Gait Cycle” which is a rearfoot contact cycle.

    In addition, Dr. Root, based on his passion stated over and over that “I do not make arch supports, I make orthotics” (personal experience), developed a casting technique and devices with lower arches than his predecessors in addition to the deep heel cup, posting, etc. That low arched, neutral STJ cast remains the heart of the biomechanical education and orthotic fabrication industry.

    As witnessed on these pages, the debate goes on but we are nearer to a consensus than we have ever been.

    Barefoot running questions whether or not “The Rearfoot Contact Gait Cycle” and the shoes that technology and research have produced based on that cycle may not be the etiology of many of our current pathologies, deformities and performance issues.

    It suggests that a more balanced gait cycle having greater midfoot or forefoot grf or CoP influence may obviate the need for thick and cushioned heels, rigid midsoles, varus rearfoot posts or medial heel skives as the heel contact grf and CoP would be reduced or eliminated.

    I have maintained for decades that my goal is to make an orthotic and training program to treat, rehab and prevent foot and postural problems for life and that most of my colleagues were making an orthotic that treats the rearfoot striking gait cycle and no other functional quality of life.

    What is your opinion?
  8. Dennis you did not start this thread to discuss that you started this thread to try and make out that your treatment "ideas" we better than someone elses and when I point out that you cannot wear shoes and orthotics and run barefoot at the same time you change subject. Just admit you were wrong and move on. We have been over this stuff ............ round and round we go.......... and I´m the idiot for posting ( I admit I was wrong and stupid).

    Once for the record well not one about 10 times, I beleive the future of biomechanics in better diagnostic tools and skills ,leading to more definitive diagnosis and through better understanding of mechancial loads on the stressed tissue and then through better understanding of mechanics, better treatment plans to limit the stress on said tissue.

    I think you were on the money the 1st time .

    EDIT. I´m out as I said Dennis, before. But consider this SALRE works in all 3 body planes and should be viewed in 4d and in the future we will have a similar MALRE for the midtarsal joint which we have to a point with Nester et al , but no clinicial application yet. Physics is everywhere, best to understand as much as we can.
  9. drsha

    drsha Banned

    This thread reads barefoot running = forefoot striking. This is because we are debating the strike point of going from point A to point B, not the coverings of the foot.
    Minimilistic shoe gear such as VFF and evo allow for pedal freedom (core intrinsic activity and plantar fascial loading) when biomechanically capable. They allow for Centering via pads or foot beds which in turn must be minimalistic as well.

    The conversion of the tendo achilles from eccentric to concentric firing awakens postural and power muscles from the dormancy they have been enslaved to by the hard unyielding ground surface and the rearfoot gait cycle shoes that we have developed and promoted with rearfoot gait contact trials and evidence.

    Once the strike point is changed that research becomes moot.
    Valgus wedges would be effectively eliminated as medial knee treatment with a forefoot contact gait cycle (maybe even the medial knee pain).

    After a functional foot typing, I can apply foot centering theory to foster muscle engine advantage and positional improvement in stance and gait, depending after factoring in patient variables, balancing the tissue stress from the plantar fascia, metatarsals and muscle engines as I encourage a more efficient, less tissue stressful method of gait. Shorter and faster strides, better posture and often better performance.

    I continue to provide injection therapy, strappings, PT and alternative or reduced activity, prn, problem and patient specific in my EBP.

    The discussions about barefoot running and stepping on nails and glass and having stress fractures must end as there are shod runners hit by moving vehicles every day and I have at least 100 metatarsal stress fractures in my files that happened while running wearing running shoes.

    A Pleasant summer to all.

    Dr Sha

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