This is the claim of "Ideal Feet" - a small franchise that operates a store in Austin. They claim to be able to relieve foot pain in "7 minutes or less" by re-aligning the bones of the feet to their natural position. A "custom" orthotic can be fitted the same day within 20-30 minutes for $300-$400. They do not accept returns.
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Here's a link to their "science" page:
http://www.idealfeet.com/index.php?q=node/4
Comments, anyone?
They must be very good:rolleyes:. In 7 minutes or less, we've barely introduced ourselves, much less having them walk out of our store with a "custom" solution.
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Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
I can't imagine why?
A podiatrist generally makes custom molded orthotics - using a mold from your already damaged foot. Ideal Feet products are designed to balance your whole body from your feet up by helping the 26 bones of your feet find their ideal position, so your body can heal itself naturally.
Thats it folks. We might as well just wrap up this website. We're all crap and just plain doing it wrong.
Robin -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
You can just imagine how podiatrists in Austin feel about these claims.
The radio and TV airwaves are hammered with Ideal Feet ads. When you sell a $25 piece of pre-formed plastic for $400, you have a lot of money for advertising.
They use a very advanced "wet paper" test determine the appropriate "custom" orthotic for your feet.
As P.T. Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute". -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
In this case I could have given foot pain relief in less than 10 seconds: take off your shoes... -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
Reading the website, it looks like the same company with a different name as "Good Feet Stores" whose founder is Harry Hlavac who used to be a guest lecturer at the Calif College of Podiatry School. If the founder is not Harry Hlavac, DPM, then it is a copy of his business model.
The company appears to be using the same type of OTC orthotics as well. The OTC orthotics they use resemble MASS position theory orthoses, full contact with a very high arch.
Just as Orthopods dropped the ball by ignoring the foot, Podiatrists have dropped the ball by ignoring biomechanics/orthotics and allowing anyone to measure a foot and dispense custom fit orthotics for high prices.
Steven -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
Oh there are some gems there!
Call me Naive but where is the 4th arch? -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
2 lateral longitudinal arch
3 proximal transverse metatarsal arch
4 distal transverse metatarsal arch
I hear about them everyday "My frontfoot arch has fallen my Dr, ortho surgeon said so. You don´t have a forefoot arch says I"(ie the distal transverse metatarsal arch.), you should see some of the faces. So tell me where it hurts so we can get started on building you a treatment plan for you problem,..... -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
Ah, I'd not encountered the transverse arch split into two. Thanks!
You think you get a reaction from patients when you tell them the met arch is a fantasy, try it in front of a lecture hall full of osteopaths!
If I'd dropped my pants and displayed my backside they could not have been more outraged!! -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
Said surg got upset when I offered to send over some journals which show the Transverse metatarsal arch does not excist if I could get an email address .... I found myself talking to air ..... Fun and games -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
If I'd dropped my pants and displayed my backside they could not have been more outraged!!
would that be a 5th arch!
JB -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
If I'd dropped my pants and displayed my backside they could not have been more outraged!!
would that be a 5th arch!
JB
No - just an extremely distal plantar fascial groove! :D -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
There are some things which should NEVER be the basis for a caption competition!! -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
Haven't had this happen, but could sure use the back up evidence when discussing it!
As for the rest of the thread: some of the casts I make sure resemble a 'less damaged' foot than the one they strode in on. But I know, I know: my custom orthotics won't put the foot into it's 'ideal position'.
Stephen -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showpost.php?p=31915&postcount=7
part of this thread:
http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showthread.php?t=12431
and this one:
http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showthread.php?t=7841 -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
Attached Files:
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Jeff Root recently posted in a thread quoting his father's paper Understanding Functional Orthoses regarding the notion of holding the foot in the ideal position. I believe (correct me if I am wrong) what Merton Root stated was that a functional orthosis resist abnormal forces and improves foot function only.
After years of dispensing and evaluating outcomes I agree with Dr. Root's assessment. This is why these one-size-fits-all and "ideal foot shape" designs fail for pathology. I could go on ad nauseum but I think their 94% success rate sounds eerily like the P&B debacle all over again.
A couple customers reviewed these. No surprise here what they write.
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/ideal-feet-c224716.html
Same turd new lawn. Watch your shoes people...;) -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
Have you gotten an advanced copy of our level I article entitled: The Barefoot Revolution mentioned on another thread?
I guess if she stated that she would like to try another treatment other than taking off her shoes you would suggest walking on her hands (more level I evidence).
Mr Hyde -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
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arch n. A structure, consisting of wedge shaped segments, forming the curved, pointed, or flat upper edge of an open space and supporting the weight above it.
There are wedge shaped segments in the proximal transverse arch (cuneiforms) but where are the wedge shaped segments of the medial longitudinal arch?
If it is accepted that the bones of the MLA are the talus, navicular, cuneiforms, 1-3 rays, the articular surfaces (frontal plane) of these bones are actually rather parallel, not wedge shaped. Without ligaments or tendons, would they support the weight above it? No.
The lateral longitudinal arch consists of the calcaneus, cuboid and 4-5 rays. (BTW, pods often include the calcaneus in the bones of the MLA.)
Anatomically and functionally, the MLA and the LLA are not self supporting or composed of wedge shaped segments therefore, by definition are not arches. They are arch shape in appearance, but not function.
They are rather, columnar structures. Functionally, disruption between the medial column and the lateral column results in 2 of the most common conditions we see clinically; plantar fasciitis and Morton's neuromas.
Plantar Fasciitis: Medial band's origin is in the lateral column (calc) and insertion is in the medial column (1st ray).
Anterior subluxation of the talus:navic:cun's:1-3 extends the distance from PF origin-insertion. Voila! Stress to the PF.
Neuroma: primary site of presentation is the 3rd I-M space. This is the junction between the medial and lateral columns.
Anterior displacement (subluxation) of the medial column relative to the lateral column stresses the connective tissues between the 2 columns in the 3rd I-M space.
Treatment plans addressing the dysfunction between the med and lat columns with manual therapies may need implementation when the clinical signs of ant talar subluxation are present.
Ted. -
I'm not sure about the neuroma thing but that's the clearest and most concise disputation of a functional "arch" I've ever read!
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Here's something I ran into accidentally today: http://www.aidmyplantar.com/index.php?REF=GPLAContent.
Who knew that heat, cold, ultrasound and splinting would do all that?...
...With no need to address biomechanics!!
*sigh* -
Re: Foot Pain Relief in Less than 7 Minutes
I am Rosalinda W. Johnson, referred to within your Blog-O-Scope about the GOOD FEET STORE. My husband, Joseph Paul Polifroni, and I are the founders and were the sole owners of the GOOD FEET STORE until 2004 when we sold the company.
http://blog-o-scope.com/2008/12/good-feet-store.html -
They use the word beam, to mean a long rigid structure that takes stress across the long axis. I remember that Merton Root used the word beam to describe the first ray when the mid-tarsal joint is locked.
As I think of the whole movement of the gait cycle, I can see that what begins as three beams in the forefoot at midstance, rapidly shifts to three columns during propulsion. Is that right?
Bill Bird -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9mioHO4hoM&NR=1 -
TOG dish out a prefab orthotic shell while Foot Levelers dish out an insole with a varus heel wedge & some generic arch cookies to support the heavily advertised "3 arches of the foot" (oh, once again Foot Levelers Inc. - I am entitled to my point of view... so you can put your lawyers away!)
Here is a link with a video from what I take it to be a Canadian Current Affairs/Investigation type program which looks into the prescribing of orthotics...
Is that thing in your shoe worth the money you paid?
Of particular interest is 7.40 to about 9.00 min. in the video... with TOG coming under question as well as the chiropractors who used their system (i.e. GaitScan).
There appears to be no description of the product but with the following quotes taken from the website, clues are present as to what the assessment practice is like & subsequently what the product could be i.e.
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"Custom made orthotics and drug store arch supports are what most people try first when they feel pain in their feet or back. Since none of these products, even custom made orthotics, are designed to restore the arch to its ideal position, any relief is usually temporary and not the result of objective scientific research. In fact, a mold of your foot is exactly what you do not want. A mold of a damaged foot is not designed to put the foot into its ideal position, it only fills the gaps until the foot gets worse, which will happen ." (http://www.idealfeet.com/index.php?q=node/4)
I find it interesting that the terms 'drug store arch supports' and "Custom made orthotics" in the same sentence and then progressing to a full fledged attempt to debunk the use of custom made orthotics by implying that the mold made by Podiatrists (or I presume anyone else: Orthopaedist, CO, C.Ped) is a representation of a 'damaged foot'.
About the only time I would try and capture a 'damaged' foot is if the foot was, indeed, damaged (ie: charcot, severe midfoot arthritis, etc.) and even then when 'it only fills in the gaps' the pressures are redistributed and the patient becomes more comfortable.
What really surprises me about the business model is that it seems to be claiming that they have more information, knowledge and ability that the medical field trained to diagnose and treat disorders of the foot and ankle.
----Stephen :deadhorse: -
Follow the snake oil tag and you'll see! -
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Hi David,
Ironically they got word about this from a Dr Edward Butterworth as a result of the following thread on this forum... Another type of proprioceptive orthotics... which you would be familiar with. Dr Butterworth who posts under the guise of healthmarque on this forum asked if the above cited thread could be viewed by anybody. At post # 57 Ian stated that it could be found via a Google search. Well not only the thread in question could be found at about position 3... but also my views on his Healthmarque PZ Prescriptive Orthotics could be found further down the Google list, which I wrote about 12 - 18 months ago.
Dr Butterworth naturally discovers this, he sends me an email & we engage in a similar dialogue to that of the associated thread. Just to let you all know... Dr Butterworth expressed to me that he didn't find his experience on this forum a happy one (you probably all knew that anyway). I subsequently check out the thread to find out what he was talking about. He used a series of colourful words & expressions but did not answer my questions. I told him that if he can provide the slightest bit of evidence to substantiate his claims & accusations I was willing to remove his product from the list. His last email to me stated that he would be in contact with the other subjects on the list... here is where Foot Levelers enters the story.
Anyway, Dr Butterworth has visited me at my clinic well before all of this (about 3-4 years ago) in an attempt to get Podiatrists on board to prescribing his product i.e. the Healthmarque PZ Prescriptive Orthotics. He performed an applied kinesiology test on me & based on my results he advised which of the pouches in the insole needed to be filled with the crumbled pieces of red poron/rubber (ok, ok, stop laughing). He looked at the sole of my RM Williams boots & informed me that I have some problems (I don't think I do - seriously :confused:). About this time I could have sworn I saw one of these :pigs: fly past my window. We exchanged pleasantries & parted company.
About an hour after our visit I thought it would be a good idea to have possession of his product so I called him up & purchased the starter kit for $200. This included a pair of rubber inlays (my size), a bag of crumbled pieces of red poron, forceps, two large modified syringes, a manual & an instruction video. I filled my rubber inlay pouches (only the appropriate pouches) with the crumbled poron & wore them. No, don't ask (the things I do).
I do feel a bit sorry for the guy. Apparently there was some controversy over in Italy from where he inquired about the idea. He was ripped off from memory (he did tell me). I think this conduct alone should have given him alarm bells right from the start as to the nature of people behind the concept. However, I think his daughter has bad scoliosis.
I was sincerely going to take his product off the list but he didn't get back to me. He just got Foot Levelers involved (from what I have heard is a very large US based company) who can obviously afford expensive legal support.
I realise that Foot Leveler Inc. heavily promote to Chiropractors.
I have read your comments in the past & all I can say is that I am glad there are Chiropractors like you around - you are a credit to the profession.
I was walking through an agriculture show once & I saw what I later found to be a massage therapist getting people to walk over a sensor plate. Having an inquisitive nature I returned about 5 min. later to find him grinding some shells which he removed from a plastic template type thing. I naturally became more curious & got my camera out to take a picture of this template of orthotic shells, where we nearly got into a fight... but that's another story. -
I generally don't much like pseudonyms on forums, I like to know the name of the person I'm talking to. But because you put your name on the bottom and because your pseudonym is so appropriate, I rather like yours ben;). You seem nicely scrappy. :boxing::drinks
I've made many, many posts on this arena. Some I've been pleased with. Others I've looked back at with chagrin. If I had to pick out what I thought was my best it would be this one http://www.podiatry-arena.com/podiatry-forum/showpost.php?p=130001&postcount=50
In which I managed to resize and overlay anatomy pictures with the diagram of the insole to show that the pockets in no way correspond to the muscles they are meant to stimulate, and that the muscles overlap and are therefore impossible to stimulate individually by flicking the skin.
We've seen some rubbish on here but that.... -
Matt (I hope I can call you that, I'm assuming others do but if it's not what you wish to be called please tell me),
Great to meet you, even if from afar and to hear your story. It is always fascinating to me how having an opinion and as Robert points out and some scrap can land you in deep water with the sharks circling. I had a similar experience with a company that sells a device to my colleagues to the point where their competitor (who won several lawsuits and judgments against them and offered me their legal counsel to defend my position should that become necessary) implied they would force me to defend my comments (opinions) made on a web board.
I have made numerous similar comments about both of the companies that you have mentioned and while I don't want to invite litigation, I will speak my mind and call a turd a turd (Robert is very fond of my cowpie theme!) You sound a lot like me, where you just cannot allow flagrant misinformation and claims to stand. Maybe its a fault I don't know but there are a number of us around here with a similar mindset.
I enjoyed the thread that you referenced greatly. I had hoped that Ed would have stayed and provided a greater degree of proof for his claims but that did not happen and the thread became more of an examination of AK and chiropractic than about his insoles. That was fine with me (although I never was able to provide Michael Weber an explanation of the foot/TMJ connection), Stanley and I had a good discussion and although we don't see eye to eye I value Stanley's work and beliefs; he is entitled to them as am I.
Thank you for your kind words. I truly would like to see my profession progress and earn the due that I feel it is worthy of. A large part of that in my estimation would be abandoning certain outdated concepts and moving away from certain product brands that are embedded deeply within the chiropractic professional subconscious. As podiatry moves farther away from biomechanics (and this is what I see happening slowly over time) I feel that my colleagues are in a unique position to learn about proper orthosis casting, prescribing and dispensing at a very high level. At least in the U.S. Will this occur? Not likely but there are those out there with a the desire and a more advanced skill set who want to learn and adopt better practices and move away from marketing. We couldn't have done this without the innovators in podiatry and the new generation of biomechanists who are furthering the art and science of podiatric biomechanics. I certainly could not have and I am still learning, probably always will be, as are we all.
I am considering writing some articles for the chiropractic monthly to offer a different perspective to the old status quo. Every article regarding the lower extremity and orthoses is a paid advertisement for one company that does to its credit give a lot back to the profession. I don't expect that I will make many friends but I may reach a few interested colleagues and interest them in the path I have taken and that has given my patients so much. In the process I may end up in the same schism that you found yourself in. I welcome that to be honest because sometimes you have to argue to arrive at a deeper understanding and for change to occur.
You should contribute more my friend, you have a lot to offer and a lot of great insight. I hope to discuss more detailed biomechanical subjects with you in the future but I am really a small fish in a very large pond here and lurk a good deal.
And don't let the bastards get you down. As the saying goes a man who doesn't stand for something will fall for almost anything. That is how these marketeers make their bones and what they are counting on.
Here, I'll stand with you; Foot Levelers are not medical devices, they are 'customized' and not truly custom from a volumetric cast, are casted in an inferior manner and medium (with no training generally), are made from one material inconsistent with a functional orthosis. They should be billed as a longitudinal accommodative arch device and they should substantiate their marketing claims, especially the proprioceptive claims where their consultants have referenced Brian Rothbart!:hammer:
Regards, -
Hi Robert,
Hi David,
Anyway, thanks allot for the support. Lets us know if you have any problems yourself with your quest.
Kind regards,
Matt. -
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The problem with "Custom Made" orthotics is that they bare more art than science. They are a mold of an already damaged foot.
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Yet another pressure plate system for making orthotics, but we know better. Here's an arch support. We didn't look at your arch, didn't need to but it's better than what the trained professional can do, so we'll charge more. Yea, well marketed fecal matter. -
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