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Orthopedist attacks Podiatry

Discussion in 'General Issues and Discussion Forum' started by anDRe, Jan 18, 2011.

  1. anDRe

    anDRe Active Member

    Members do not see these Ads. Sign Up.
    An orthopedist rambles on in this video in a shameless attempt to discredit podiatry. The height of unprofessionalism, it is at once an inaccurate diatribe and potentially subject to slander laws ....


    This video smacks of insecurity --some one of us must be cutting into this guy's bottom line. It seems to me that people only lash out like this when they are feeling threatened --otherwise why else go to all of the trouble to make the video??
  2. bob

    bob Active Member

    Isn't the internet a wonderful thing though? How else would a barely evolved chimp who can only just about string a sentence together ever make their voice heard?
  3. "their treatments are not in in the mainstream of medicine, its more along the lines of chiropractic or acupuncture" :D:D

    There you go bob. Next time you do a lapidus be sure to have a few incense sticks burning and whale song playing!:pigs:

    The comments on the video are entertaining! Even other Orthopaedics are coming out against him.
  4. Jonathan

    Jonathan Active Member

    From the content of his rant, one can only assume that Thomas M Joseph (MD don't you know) had the text of his autocue written by a former aid to Adolf Hitler.
  5. Much of my philosophy in life has been learned from the late, great Bill Hicks. I've been trying to teach one of his mantra's to colleagues and Padawan's of late:

    "Look at it, say what it is: piece of ****, right? Repeat after me: "piece of ****". "But what about...?" "No, it has no artistic nor scientific worth, it is a piece of ****". Walk away. If I dropped a turd on your table, would you pick it up and examine it? Maybe see what it tastes of? "I think what the artist was trying to say when he curled that out was..." No, it's a piece of ****, now walk away.

    Have a nice day, y'all.
  6. bob

    bob Active Member

    Now Simon,
    That's not exactly the best quote to sum up your outlook on life is it (purely based on your posts on here)? You don't exactly adopt the 'it's just a ride' philosophy in the vast majority of your posts. I think your internet persona is more closely influenced by the following Bill Hicks link (anyone of a sensitive nature really should not click on the link):
  7. David Wedemeyer

    David Wedemeyer Well-Known Member

  8. bob

    bob Active Member

  9. Yeah, that's me: Hicks at his angriest ( I should be so lucky to half his talent and brain). Hicks himself was compared to Christ at his angriest. I'm really worthy of neither comparative, especially not the second. But it is just a ride, as my t-shirt this evening reminds me. I'm hoping this is not my last one, although I have been told it is.

    This site needs more Hicks.
  10. bob

    bob Active Member

    Yes, I went to a U2 concert once and bought a t-shirt, but that only reminds me that Bono is a w****r!
    And I would never compare you to Christ. One is an imaginary person that I have never met, nore am ever likely to meet, the other is a person that posts on podiatry arena!
  11. Yeah great, if you're trying to be antagonistic, you'll need to try a lot harder. I've looked at your last post, and said what it is. Good night "Bob".
  12. bob

    bob Active Member

    ? I'm not. Goodnight? Apologies if it sounded like I was, I'm assuming we're talking at 'internet' cross purposes? Either I have spoken out of turn, or you are being a bit over sensitive. Either way, we are are all big boys so let's move on eh?
  13. Deborah Ferguson

    Deborah Ferguson Active Member

    Hi All
    Ben Goldacre makes a similar point somewhere on his` Bad Science` website and there does seem to be an increasing feeling that if Podiatric surgeons wish to call themselves surgeons like the other guys ( or girls) then they too should complete 7 years of medical training.
    Personally as long as they are competent and safe I don't care what letters they have after their names.
  14. bob

    bob Active Member

    Hmm. Perhaps podiatric surgeons should insist that orthopaedic surgeons spend 11 years training in podiatry/ surgery of the foot and ankle if they want to operate on feet?

    I think you are right Deborah, as long as the surgeon does a good job, it should not really matter what their background is.
  15. lucycool

    lucycool Active Member

    wow.. he's an actual medical doctor - whooopee!!
  16. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Never forget, he's an actual medical doctor type Orthopaedic Surgeon who has found a new way to self publicise.

    All the best

  17. Jose Antonio Teatino

    Jose Antonio Teatino Well-Known Member

  18. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    There is not a single greater indication of an individuals insecurity than when they use the denigration of others to promote themselves.
  19. blinda

    blinda MVP

    :good: Yep. What he says.
  20. kirstyq

    kirstyq Member

    I agree with this doctor. If a podiatrist wants to do orthopaedic surgery, then he/she should study medicine and then specialise in this type of surgery. There are no real short cuts in this world.
  21. bob

    bob Active Member

    That is a very interesting point of view Kirsty. Besides the fact that podiatrists do not do orthopaedic surgery, what makes you think that there are any short cuts involved in a podiatrist or podiatric surgeon's training?

    Do you know how much training an orthopaedic surgeon has in foot surgery if they choose to specialise in it? Do you know what exams they take in theory or practice of foot surgery? During their training in orthopaedics and medicine, do you know how much time is devoted to management of foot and ankle pathology?
  22. W J Liggins

    W J Liggins Well-Known Member

    Hello Kirsty

    Are you an Orthopaedic Surgeon?

    Kind regards

  23. Jenene Lovell

    Jenene Lovell Active Member

    who does this guy think he is??? ok... yes every country has different standards as to what a podiatrist can and cant do, I acknowledge that. does he honestly think that all we do is cut nails and remove callous, with orthotic treatments on the side?

    ok, in Austrailia, what a podiatrist does is not as basic as he makes it out to be, its more involved... In America, I think the standards are different (thats what I was told anyway.). Please correct me if I'm wrong...

    But the way I see it is that a podiatric surgeon who has been trained, had tests/exams, gotten his fellowship and all that- then it shouldnt matter, as long as they do a good job ( I think Bob said that earlier...).

    I guess it depends on where this guy is from... and what the podiatrists (I mean podiatric surgeons) are "allowed" to do... (?)

    But I still think he has no right to slander a profession unless he is from the profession itself... but who would do that???

    I actually think he is just jealous that he has chosen to specialise in the foot and ankle (I'm presuming here) and that there are podiatric surgeons who are also in the same field, thus he cant really be considered a foot and ankle specialist in regards to orthopaedics... I dont know. I just think he is rude...
  24. simonf

    simonf Active Member

    I don't think it does matter where he is from, there is a basic level of suspicion of Pod surgeons from orthopods the world over.

    To make matters worse there is similar derision poured on pods by other pods in some areas. That can't be healthy
  25. Jenene Lovell

    Jenene Lovell Active Member

    No... when podiatrists attack podiatrists I don't think that is healthy at all... We are all in the same boat so we should be helping each other (and grow as a profession..)
  26. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    This was in Barry Block's PM News today:
  27. anDRe

    anDRe Active Member

    Glad to know that APMA is taking a stand toward this orthopedist! Defamatory videos like this should never see the light of day because they are a complete lack of ethics!
  28. Jenene Lovell

    Jenene Lovell Active Member


    this is extremely good news... not just for APMA and podiatrists in the USA, but for the profession as a whole.
  29. As a current patient and case study of Camden Bone and Joint, Dr. Thomas Joseph, I champion his advocacy to limit the the scope of podiatry. recently moved from CA to SC with constant pain from a lisfranc fracture and subsequent surgeries placing inappropriate hardware throughout my foot. Screws were literally protruding out of the side of my ankle and heel. The hardware did not even correct the lisfranc fracture. This was done by a podiatrist. Dr. Joseph has since removed the hardware lessening the pain. I am a widow without insurance and have to pay out of pocket for the CA DPM mistakes. This information is factual. The years DPMs versus MDs spend mastering their craft differ substantially. This is a fact. The immature responses posted here do not exactly promote intelligence amidst the trade. I came here to learn about podiatry. What an impression you all have made. Just the facts please. Not nazi name calling and accusations as to the mental state of my Doctor as you try to expand your horizons ever more into psychology.
  30. anDRe

    anDRe Active Member

    Sorry about your situation but I must stress that in all professions there are good and bad professionals but we should never call into question like Dr. Joseph did an entire class of professionals! I can say that during my years as podiatrist I have come across also with cases from patients who had very serious complications after being intervene by orthopedistssurgeons and never but never I put into question the work of these professionalsnt even to the patients who so severely criticized them!
    We must have respect for everyone and know the background of each profession, a DPM may not have an MD degree but in the USA mainly they have a long career and studies to be considered a foot surgeon in particular through residency programs and fellowship to obtain that title.
    And as far the comments and observations made here to Dr. Joseph I do not see how they differ from those made by Dr. Joseph himself in his own video! It comes down to a matter of professional ethics and in my opinion in the case of Dr. Joseph he has revealed no respect and has shown a complete lack of ethics for DPM profession so I should whe have any respect towards him also
  31. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Deborah, the status in the US is 4 years to DPM and a further mandatory 3 years hospital residency. Some hospitals offer a 4 year residency in which the resident devotes the 1st year exclusively to the management of medical patients. I am experiencing this first hand, and it's pretty brutal.

    No allowances are made in respect of the 'Podiatry' tag. As a Doctor and resident you are expected to perform alongside, and as competently as any other attending resident.


  32. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    There are some very competent Podiatrist operating in his region. There is an ongoing dispute over scope of practice. This is his latest attempt, to tarnish the professional reputation of his competitors.

    This South Carolina based orthopedist is now served with a cease & desist order from lawyers.
  33. simonf

    simonf Active Member

    Slight thread hijack, apologies to one and all but:

    Dieter, It would be interesting to hear of your views on DPM education versus current surgical fellowship in the UK
  34. Dieter Fellner

    Dieter Fellner Well-Known Member

    Hi Simon, no problem, I have sent you a private message, best jdf
  35. A strange thing indeed is the human mind.

    You suggest that we should concentrate on fact and not supposition. A wise suggestion and one I would endorse. So let us look at the facts at your disposal.

    You had surgery from a DPM which resulted in a complication. Fact.

    You support Dr Joseph's view that DPMs act beyond their scope of competance. Fact.

    What I don't see is the correlation between these facts.

    I have seen many, many many complications following foot surgery from both podiatric and orthopeadic surgeons. I see patterns in these complications, but it tends to be the case that these patterns follow individual surgeons rather than the groups. I have seen individuals from both groups who I would not trust to sew a patch on a pair of jeans, much less operate on feet. I've also seen bad results from good surgeons. Sometimes our best is just not good enough.

    It may be that your surgery was perfect, complications can happen whoever is doing the surgery, but assuming it wasn't what makes you think your problem was a bad profession rather than simply a bad surgeon? You seem a thinking person, why have you drawn that conclusion?

    In a word, Dr Joseph. He has told you that your experience is representative of all DPM surgery. It isn't.

    If we wish to deal in facts (or science as it is sometimes called) your case is what is called a data point. And no intelliegent conclusion about an entire profession can be reached from a data point. I had a bad experience at the dentist once. That doesn't mean that all dentists are bad.

    Dr Joseph's account, however, contains many things which are NOT facts, but fallacies. Demonstrably Untrue statements. If we are being charitable then it is this errors which have caused him, and by inference, you to draw your conclusions.

    If we are being uncharitable... well the vested interest is rather obvious.

    Good luck with your feet. But beware of being manipulated.
  36. NewsBot

    NewsBot The Admin that posts the news.

    APMA Succeeds in Removing Defamatory Video from Circulation
    from APMA CEO Forum by Glenn Gastwirth, DPM
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