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Silicon Coach Pro 7 - camera advice

Discussion in 'Biomechanics, Sports and Foot orthoses' started by James Welch, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. James Welch

    James Welch Active Member

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    I'm potentially going to be using SiliconCoach Pro 7 soon, but as of yet we don't have a digital camera / video camera / camcorder.

    Now I'm pretty sure Craig uses the Casio Exilim EX-FH20 (this is what you mentioned at the boot camp in November in London, cheers) - has this now been superceeded by the EX-FH25?


    Now that doesn't have a firewire port - do you not live stream or do you just use the USB 2.0 port to live stream - or do you just download the footage to your computer and then play it back later to your patient?

    Does anyone use this software, and if so, those that use it, what camera do you use? I've noticed that the higher the FPS (frames per second), the less blurring of the image as you slow it down, but your frame size seems to become smaller.

    Have you tried any cameras and found that they don't work as well?

    I know I've got more questions, but that's all I've got for now.

    Kind regards,

  2. DSP

    DSP Active Member

    Hi James

    I've used SiliconCoach for about 3 or so years now. I currently use a Sony DCR-HC52 MiniDV handycam and it has a firewire port for live streaming. I think it is essential that you have a camera which has a firewire port as its the only way to go and you'll have much better picture quality. SiliconCoach usually recommends the miniDV cameras, however, I believe there harder to come by now and can only be purchased in the US (I stand corrected though). So personally, I'd recommend that you try to hunt down a miniDV camera as they tend to be the most compatible and easy to work with.

    Before I updated my laptop, I found my presentations to be a little pixilated. I originally thought that this was a camera issue but discovered by accident that it was to do with my graphics card. I now have a GEFORCE GTS 360M CUDA 1GB. It has made a big difference to the picture quality and smoothness.


    Daniel Bagnall
  3. Ian Drakard

    Ian Drakard Active Member

    Hi James

    I use the EX-FH25 (although not with silicon coach). It is very slightly different to the FH20- check out the frame rate options. If you are after a multi camera setting which syncs/captures direct then the exilim will not do this.

    You need to download it to work with on computer. However it is useful as it does frame rates of 250 and 400 (from memory) at relatively good resolution which is much higher than the 25fps/50 fps after deinterlacing from a mini dv- very useful for running stuff.

    The other thing to think about when you get up to those frame rates is you need good lighting. Lots of light, and lights that don't give mains flicker (50-60hz mains frequency is easily picked up at high frame rates)

    I guess it would be nice to have couple of mini dvs for 2 plane viewing and an exilim seperate to pick up high speed stuff in more detail. Then again it would be nice to have a high speed basler set-up!

  4. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    [I'll start this post by declaring my knowledge of cameras starts and ends with how to use them].

    That said, all the above sounds very technical, but is it really necessary? You have to ask yourself to what end you are using the camera - that is, what are you actually trying to achieve by videoing someone? Is the top spec camera and shed loads of frames per second required?

    I've used quite a few different pieces of video software over the last several years (although I admit not Silicon coach) and if I'm honest a Sony Handycam which costs about a ton from Dixons has always been more than man enough for the job.
  5. Ian Drakard

    Ian Drakard Active Member

    The exilim is not that expensive (check out ebay) so the frame rates to money ratio is pretty good.

    What you actually use the camera and software for is a good question though. I'd contend (with full expectation of being shot down :D ) that if we're ignoring the patient education side of things, the benefits over plain eyeballing you only really get at higher speeds.

    However with software, a lot of the tools ie drawing lines etc to help kinematic analysis is not accurate or relevant as has been discussed on here several times.
    I've not got round to getting any proper software yet as I just use quicktime to step through frame by frame.
  6. Jonathan

    Jonathan Active Member

    You cannot stream live with these cameras via USB - save the file, convert it to a suitable file that your software likes ( possibly AVI) and import it. We have been using a casio Exilim with Templo software for a while - with great results.

    Eyeballing - a good eye can see approx 7 frames per second so capturing 100 - 1,000 frames per second and using software to slow the replay down has its advantages. Espeacilly if you have a runner at 10 k's plus. But like your eyes its still 2D
  7. Pod on sea

    Pod on sea Active Member

    I use it with an 11 year old JVC DV camcorder using the firewire link with no probs. Look on ebay for a Panasonic 3CCD camera, with firewire, you can get a good used one for £200-300.
  8. Jonathan

    Jonathan Active Member

    If you do go via ebay ask the seller a question 'does the firewire still work?' This is the number one issue - as it can easily short and you won't know untill you plug it in. Ebayers rare allow returns.

    Beware: if you plug/unplug the firewire with the camera turned on you increase the chance of you shorting the connection in the camera.
  9. Pod on sea

    Pod on sea Active Member

    ..I never knew that..
    Luckily mine does still work, phew!
  10. celia@siliconcoach.com

    celia@siliconcoach.com Welcome New Poster

    The casio exilim has not been designed for live video stream. However Siliconcoach Pro 7 has been designed to handle high speed footage captured!

    The new casio fh25 produces an avi file, when this is loaded into the Siliconcoach player you need to change the frame rate to give you a good size thumb nail to analyse (210 fps). Check out this link for more information.

    Any issues please contact support@siliconcoach.com

    take care,
  11. James Welch

    James Welch Active Member

    Apologies to all for the delay in replying to this thread (sorry, holiday beckoned!). Firstly, thankyou for all of your replies and advice on different types of camera's, it's all been extremely useful.

    Ian, I knew you would come back with something like this. ;) My point was just to see what people were currently using with this software - if I can get away with a cheap as chips camera, I'll go with that, but as I've noticed, for only a little more you can massively increase you frames per second. (I'm also a camera newbie, hence the posting here). I'd found with alot of the normal videoplayers (Quicktime, etc) when I tried slowing down any footage, with a camera that did, eg 25fps, once you reach a certain point the picture is too blurred to be of any use (not necessarily putting whizzy lines on, etc, you just can't even see the outlines of the foot!)


  12. Jonathan

    Jonathan Active Member

    James, you can buy a second hand camcorder from ebay for less than £80.00. This is my suggestion.

    Find a Panasonic with a firewire (IEEE1394) port and manual shutter speed options. This will enable you to set the shutter speed to 500th of a second plus - I perfer 1/750th. It is a high shutter speed that will reduce blurr not £££££££'s

    Whilst cameras play back 25/30 fps they actually capture 50/60 fps. In windows media player you will only see 25/30 fps. Each replay frame will consit of capture Frame 1&2, then 3&4 interlaced together to give you that lovely image.

    Motion Analysis Software will delace these frames providing you 50/60 frames per second.

    The crux of a good image is based on the following
    1) Light source
    2) Shutter speed

    Not the brand of software - that is just a tool to alter the image replay speed, size etc.
  13. Griff

    Griff Moderator

    I'm nothing if not predictable my friend! See you in Manchester in June for a few beers?
  14. James Welch

    James Welch Active Member

    Of course fella, just need to get my backside in gear and send them some cash.:drinks

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