Writers join experts to campaign to save NHS from privatisation

Hi All,

Quoting the last para. above, 'the suspension of "any further expansion of the role of the private sector into the NHS."

The Primary Care Trusts (PCT.), are old Tory Policy dressed up in new clothes! The only difference is that they are run by Bureaucrats and not DOCTORS! I believe that the Thatcher Government were trying to bring back the Doctor Patient relationship in their time and point of contact with the patient. One failure of policy over past years was the removal of the local Cottage Hospital. The new version of the PCT today! Biggest is best failed in the 1940's to 1960's in the UK. and will fail again today!

Of course the Unions are fighting it. Less control for their members over the paperwork and more control for the Bureaucrat and their members. Unions only exert power in large bodies! Nationalization failed not because of the size of it's many parts but because of the bureaucratic paper work it generated!

Look at HIDE BOUND Germany and Frances today their economies are failing, 'Paper paper every where and no water to drink!' Yes generalizations again but this Gov. and NHS. needs control of the DOCTORS! Without that they cannot control the masses that's the conspiracy of the day. Who needs Patricia Hewitt, bring back Margaret all is forgiven! Or something like that?

From an old Thatcherite of the Cry Freedom iliac!

Colin.

PS. Just a little something Admin. to get the ball rolling, and I promised myself I wouldn't, you know!

 

I suspect this issue will dominate British politics for the next few years – foreign policy and natural disasters notwithstanding – and will prove divisive in both public and professional forums, for many reasons. There is no doubt that the NHS is in need of radical surgery – but only time will tell if the measures being proposed are the best hope for its long-term survival.

Many of the divisions are ideological rather than practical and are often trumpeted without any real thought to what they mean or what the implications are for effective delivery of health for our society. Some questions:

1. What is meant by “privatisation” and why is it considered (by some) to be unacceptable in healthcare?
2. Should all health-care be “free at the point of source” in a society where there is such a diversity of wealth?
3. Are we opposed to the use of the private sector even where services are “free at the point of source” for patients?
4. Why should health-care be free when we pay for other essential services such as food, heating, housing, water & etc?
5. Is a free health system beneficial or detrimental to professional development and establishment?
6. If charges were to be introduced for some podiatric services, what care should be exempted?
7. Prioritise these: The profession, the public, and the state.

Look forward to reading the response.

 

Mark

I do not want to be pedantic but as far as I remember free delivery is supposed to be at the 'point of need', ?

If that is the situation, the NHS fails miserably.

Access to 'expertise' is abysmally slow, spending about £100 circumvents all that 'waiting anxiety'

Having just been through the system Very disillusioned.

Very political 'privatisation of the NHS' interesting? times.

Bob

PS (never done this before but inspired by colin)

Your point 4.

Sorry we have paid for it.

The Labour government in the late 40's introduced the NHS, every government since has taxed 'us' and claimed the right to organise our health care, but as we all know the ruling government whoever they have been have not made 'us' pay enough for the system.

They (government) have then fiddled with the system because it is the largest employer in the UK.

I do not know what would be the best regime, but what is happening now is far from the best result.

From here on it gets too political New Labour/ Labour/ Consertvative/ Liberal, all have a 'solution' but where is the money?

 

Quote:- "Never done this before but inspired by Colin."

Colin's in a state of shock Bob.

Speechless,

Colin. (Now there's a thing?).

 

Colin

Speechless,

Colin. (Now there's a thing?).

Never,

Ps my computer is playing up!

Regards Bob

PPs,

any coments about the politics of the NHS?

 

Occasionally Dropping the Ball?

Hi Bob,

I have like you paid my Nat. Ins. Stamp Tax since 1948 until today, over fifty years of weekly/monthly taxation.

Free, what's free, as you say Bob if you don't pay very much you don't get very much!

Rationed treatment perhaps unless you can pay? The people in the NHS. performing miracles! Only on the odd occasion do they drop the ball. Then the Gov. gives them a little more money or I believe in some cases redirect monies that is already there at the expense of other services of much needed capital?

Where will it all end,

1. £10 to see the doctor?
Just paid £15 to shake hands with my dentist, not a syringe in sight! My blood pressures to high anyway?
£150 for my wife to shake hands with the surgeon re new hip?

2. If you haven't got insurance die?

3. I'm sorry but you will just have to limp for a few more years yet, we cannot afford you?

I hope I sound extreme and that I can hear, "Oh isn't that ridicules, that will never happen Here!" I hope you are right!

Regards,

Colin.

 

Fair point Bob and it all boils down to whether we trust the government to spend taxation wisely enough on our behalf. I'm not all that sure that I do, given the amount of waste that has been so obvious in recent years. The same argument can be applied to taxation on motorists. The amount of money accumulated in road and fuel taxes is far in excess of that spent on roads and travel infrastructure. What then happens to the surplus?

If we take patient choice to the logical conclusion, it may be wiser to tax less and leave the money in the pockets of the patients, to be spent as they wish. Certainly that is the view of many people I have seen in recent times, when their service provision has been withdrawn for 'lack of funding'. They may have paid their stamp during their lifetime, but are still unable to access care when they need it most..

One cannot help but wonder how much of our money - money that could have been directed towards health and education - has ended up funding an expensive sojourn in the Middle East or maintaining an empty tent in Greenwich, to cite just two examples.

Kind regards
Mark

 

Longevity and weeping

Dear all,

Watched the news tonight???


Apparently i am going to make it to 90 and my next wife to 92.5!!!!!!

So what benefit is there to myself and society with increasing longevity?

Bankruptcy.

Work for 40 years colect index linked pension for 30 years.

That is a real bargain.

The Hong Kong Govt love my dad .

He worked for them for 20 years and is now in his 25th year of index linked pension. Lucky chap. Keeps him in golf balls and beer at the golf club 4 days a week at 80 years of age.

I will be buying shares in paper products companies.

Drooling and incontinence require massive amounts of paper products. Imagine customers for 15 years what a business.

In reality what i had today in my clinic is the reality.

Lovely vibrant funny OLD Girl of 100 years now at 100 years plus 5 months not too good. In pain weakening frail, the person i have come to enjoy is slowly goin down the plughole. She knows it and her dr knows it . So why prolong the increasing agony of it all.

She wants off the bus. I agree with her sentiments. 100 pretty good years so why 6-12 months of *************

Just getting old is not of benefit.
Attaining a great age in pretty good shape is a bonus on top of the Bibles

THREE SCORE AND TEN

SO WHEN THERE IS 1 WORKER FOR EACH PENSIONER CIRCA 2050 WHERE WILL OUR SOCIETY BE.

Remeber Star Trek and the planet where there was no disease so no death so no children.

Star Trek brought a series of bugs and started the natural life cycle again.

What makes youth and health valuable is the brevity of it.

I am an NHS employee.

I want a pension like the MP's and Judges and i want to retire at an age to enjoy it.

regards David

 

Ethos of the NHS.?

Hi All,

I think time to read the original article cited by Admin. again!

A key statement of the core argument above relies on the Quote:-

"Now government reforms threaten both the ethos of the NHS. and the planned and equitable way in which it delivers care to patients."

Before going any further, what does the article mean?

Going into the statement the argument appears to have a cornerstone: 'The ETHOS of the NHS.' What is this lynch pin of the NHS.

ETHOS is,

1. The characteristic spirit, and beliefs of community!

1). Characteristic Spirit.
2). Beliefs.
3). Environment.

2. What is Community of the NHS.,

1). People.
2). System.
3). Literary work,

1)). Research.
2)). Form structure of recording.
3)). Out of control Computer and paper work.

3. Person? In the NHS. person is grouped into three types,

1). The Medical Staff.
2). The Support Staff.
3). The Patient.
[Derived from Ethos in the Greek: Nature(environment), Disposition(system).]
[Derived from The Concise Oxford Dictionary New Ed. 1982].

How can we debate this argument suggested by Admin.,

1. By knowing what the present Ethos is in the NHS. today?

2. What is Government plan to change the Ethos?

3. What effect Will this change have on the Patient? Bearing in mind steps already afoot in various quarters to change,

1). Position of patient by putting him/her first, (I hope this doesn't mean the blind leading the blind?).

2). The breaking off of the NHS. care. Now given to Primary Care Trusts?

3). Nursing Units taking over first contact in separate Units originally done by Doctors, A. & E. in hospital with private companies supplying doctors to cover GP's. and in house surgeons!

NB. As Podiatrists where is that going to put the NHS. Podiatrist? Bearing in mind the position of the Podiatrist in the pecking order, WHERE?

More questions than answers from me here I'm afraid? I hope those in the know in the UK. maybe able to enlighten me on their position and thoughts on that of these elements above in the system?

Regards,

Colin.

 

PS.

Mine written independently of David's. He was somewhere else when I started mine! No influence either way!

Regards,

Colin.

PS. to PS. Just keep taking the tablets David, sympathy with you and your hundred year old. I think I might just have lost interest in toe-nails by then don't you?

Regards,

Colin.

 

A One Hundred Year Old!

Hi David,

I had a 'One hundred year old', not so long ago, His mind was as sharp as it is possible to be, never mind his age!

As he approached 100yrs. he appeared not to change! A couple of months after everything appeared to switch off in his body? His mind was still as sharp as ever but his body appeared to go into shut-down!

Even now, I can not decide whether it was his body shutting down or his mind shutting it down? He walked out of this world asleep I believe!

There was no apparent decline in his health!

Careful David I think I can hear disillusionment in your writing? Going through a sticky patch, perhaps? Getting to close to the Reality of age itself, perhaps? Time to look for higher things, but been told by a certain person that it's discussion is out of place here! But I'm sure you got the message, I left it just long enough before I was forced to remove part of it under criticism! I might just put some thoughts down eventually in the other Forum 'Break Room', if I feel or sense guidance later on the subject?

Colin,

May His Light Shine on your face and in your Heart, David!

 

NHS. - Community?

Hi All,

Ethos:- NHS. a Community? For those who would spend most of their working life working for the largest employer in Europe do they consider that they are living and working in a Community?

Do you consider that you employed by the NHS., though departmentalized are living and working in a Community, The NHS. Community?

Or is it just a job of work, (Or a mix of Community Spirit and a job of work of course?)?

What does Community mean to you?

I'm sure that we the Patient would be very enlightened by how you see the NHS. from the inside and how it effects you the staff/workers!

Regards,

Colin.

PS. Or would you be happy working in smaller units/departments with your own independent budgets?

 

GPs' out-of-hours care may go totally private!

Hi All,

It is reported in the Daily Mail Dated 3.10.05 that a leaked letter from NHS. Chief Executive Sir Nigel Crisp has suggested that out-of-hours care will be provided through contracts with profit-making companies, and that by 2008 local Primary Care Trusts will provide services only 'where it is not possible to have separate providers'.

Currently, out-of-hours cover for around half the country is provided by non-profit doctors' cooperatives.

A Department of Health spokesman said that patients should not be alarmed by the latest revelations, saying, 'It is only the first in the process and thee will be a consultation.'

Question: What influence will the outcome of the CONSULTATION have on the actual final outcome? My Source is,

This from http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/uknews/ [03.10.05].

Regards,

Colin.

PS. A privatisation with or without the Writers and the Unions perhaps!

 

re Colin

Dear Colin,

You state that out of hours service provide by NON PROFIT cooperatives.

Gp's usually trade as a partnership.

Therefore there is a profit motive as the partners benefits come from the revenues generated by the Dr's activities for the State NHS

This is one of the reasons that so many changes are taking place.

GP's are moving to 9-5 salaried so out of hours will have to be provided by a different method.

Usually a comercial organisation such as DOCTORS ON CALL provide Dr's out of hours for a fee from the PCT.

So the PCT is providing the revenues.

Also the PCT's fund Dr's practice activity.

So until al GP's are salaried then they will continue to trade as Partnerships which have a profit motive built in. All businesses need to make a profit. In the case of a Partnership the spoils are divided amongst the partners. In a Ltd Co the profits are divided amongst the share holders.

I presume that you are a Sole Trader so you get all the spoils.

regards David

 

Doctors Profits?

Hi David,

Yes I was reporting what the Daily Mail article said ref. the website at the bottom of the page [bmj. on doctors], have you read the website report.

Doctors would not be working for nothing I'm sure!

The organisation the Cooperative of Doctors will be non-profit making after expenses to run it have been taken out. The doctors in the cooperative would take the rest of the money from it themselves, and this would be separate and over and above their partnership arrangements I believe.

The doctors would be working outside their allotted hours and therefore outside their partnership perhaps!

I need someone in the know to verify this, however, I am here constructing how they operate from a simple economic model rather than reporting anything from a group of doctors!

Regards,

Colin.

PS. Yes I get all the spoils as a Sole Trader after a double head lock from HM.Tax Inspectors quickly followed by the wife and two Grandchildren!

PPS. You could look on it as,

One Sole Trader = One Cooperative!